ECBT2000ad Podcast #15 - The return of the Oirish lad

[flintlockjaw]

Actually thought that the last two 'Necrophim' installments were pretty decent.

[Mike Gloady]

Blimey!

I agree, it's taking a turn for the better.

[Dandontdare]

Actually thought that the last two 'Necrophim' installments were pretty decent.

Now all you need to do is read the backstory to Sinister Dexter so that you can stop talking bollocks about it! Saying that it's run out of steam is crazy - the one criticism most often levelled at it in recent years was that the build up and scene setting had been rather slow and seemingly endless. Now it's all finally coming together in a big pay-off, but you seem very hazy about who's who and what's happened to get us to where we are now. I can understand why this may diminish your enjoyment of this big finale, but your criticisms of Dan Abnett, one of the finest of Tharg's script droids, are way off the mark

In general, I'd like to hear a little more "I don't like this script because...." rather than "he is a bad writer because...."

[Mike Gloady]

Flint and Blue seem faintly incined toward catching up with Dante, Sin/Dex is the obvious next step. 

Consistently the two best non-Dredd strips of recent years.  Barely a ms-step in either of them, the only problem beng their intermittent appearances...

[TordelBack]

Now all you need to do is read the backstory to Sinister Dexter so that you can stop talking bollocks about it!

Yeah, listening to this on the way to work this morning that was the main thing I took away from an otherwise highly enjoyable edition.  It seems that Flint in particular leans towards a very specific style of storytelling, where everything you need to know is contained in each short arc, if not each episode.  Thus a Sláine story of monumental stupidity gets a thumbs-up because Pat couldn't be arsed any more to build a coherent world for his character to lurch about in, while over in SinDex the evolution of a one-joke strip into a twisty-turny tension-filled complex thriller gets panned as having 'run its course'. 

I do have a certain sympathy with this view, often staring blankly at a new Red Seas run and trying to work out where exactly we left off last time, and it's certainly a more accessible approach for new readers.  However it becomes irritating when the reviewer's main beef could be addressed by actually reading the bloody thing.  I don't agree with Flint's dislike of Necrophim either, but at least that is based on solid points about what's actually there on the page, rather than not having read or not remembering the past few hundred pages of the story.

For the record,  I was an ardent hater of Sinister Dexter for many years, in fact if asked I would have said it was one of the main reasons I stopped reading the Prog round about the time it started appearing regularly.  However, for the last 10 years or so it's grown in stature and it's grown on me, mainly because of Abnett's sheer wit and ability to make me care about characters that are still largely cyphers, while building a complex character-driven plot around them - the Finny Christmas episode a few years back, where he tries to plan a way out of prison for himself and the paralysed Dexter, is one of my favourite 2000AD strips.

Also, just to help out:  in the episode where Kal's girlfriend explodes, the reason the boys escape serious injury is because she gives them a moment's warning and they leap out of the car, as seen in flashback the next episode, not because they're invulnerable.  It's a bit King of the Rocketmen, but it's there.

Keep it up lads and thanks, it's always fun, even when it's angrying up the blood!

[bluemeanie]

I gotta say Im not overly enjoying Sinister Dexter because it really does seem to hinge too much on "LOOK! Its that guy from 3 years ago!"

I dont know that guy from 3 years ago. And to be honest I dont think I should have to go hunting for back issues to "get" a current story. What I think this story needs at this stage is a totally new character with Sin & Dex. Someone they can turn to every now and then and say "Hell - its Fred! He used to run a hitman agency and we killed him two years ago" and give a bit of an in story recap for those of us who are a little lost with who everyone is. They keep dropping names with no clues as to why they are important for those of us not in the know.

The DUN DUN DUNNNNNs at the end of each prog are a bit DUN DUN WHU? for me.

If you DO know the characters well though Im sure its rocking and full of cool surprises. Im just feel like I'm coming into a movie half way through

[Mike Gloady]

No excuses, Richard!  The Sin/Dex trades are essential reading. They need to get caught up though - and quick.  I've been away and some of it's lost on me.

[bluemeanie]

I cant bring myself to get Sin/Dex trades when Im still only up to VOLUME SIX of the case files and dont even got the Anderson or Robo Hunter ones!

That said, I do have one of the collections, Slay per View, that I got as a con freebie which I read a few years back and enjoyed but I'd be lying if I said I could remember that much about it

[TordelBack]

What I think this story needs at this stage is a totally new character with Sin & Dex. Someone they can turn to every now and then and say "Hell - its Fred! He used to run a hitman agency and we killed him two years ago" and give a bit of an in story recap for those of us who are a little lost with who everyone is.

You mean someone like Missy Solemnis?  

I know what you mean, Bluemeanie, but the fact is that you are coming in way further down the line than halfway, and there's already far too much recapping in a five-page episode for my tastes.  It's just a consequence of trying to tell a complex tale in short bursts made up of weekly snippets - I'd hate to think 2000AD would ever stop trying to do that sort of thing.   The compromise solution would of course be to run a little quarter page recap in the Nerve Centre every time a story returns, which I know has been suggested many times before.

[bluemeanie]

Yeah, I think I mentioned I'd love recaps, especially with a story like this which follows on from stuff a few months back.
Hell, even go as far as to have a glossary. Stick it on the back page with a little "If you arent up to speed on Sinister Dexter, go check the inside back cover"

You wouldnt have to do it every time a new story starts, but for backstory heavy ones like this it'd help

[stacey]

Yeah, I think I mentioned I'd love recaps, especially with a story like this which follows on from stuff a few months back.
Hell, even go as far as to have a glossary. Stick it on the back page with a little "If you arent up to speed on Sinister Dexter, go check the inside back cover"

You wouldnt have to do it every time a new story starts, but for backstory heavy ones like this it'd help

Probably not practical for the Prog, but at the front of all the Fables trades they do a list of pertinent characters and a tiny who they are thing. It works as a recap and a whos who, I think it's a great idea. But as I say not really practical for the Prog.  I don't really get what's going on in Sin/Dex but am still really enjoying it. It's like you say, the surprise element is lost on me, but can still enjoy the rest of the story, if that makes sense. 

[bluemeanie]

Yeah, but I still feel like I'm missing the best bits.
Its like at the end of the last one I read - ITS THE BLONDE WOMAN!!

wow!

who?

Its the curse of stuff like this though. You want to do stories for the fans of the series and give them cool stuff without wasting time recaping and holding newbies hands. I still think this strip especially suffers from the last break which really was half way through this arc.
I drink a lot - my memory sucks! I need reminders

[Colin_YNWA]

While all just goes to show that Tharg needs to stop using Sinister Dexter as filler (well that's how I imagine it anyway not based on anything as silly as fact!) and give it the good long run it deserves - thus making a bit of recap worth while.

[TordelBack]

While all just goes to show that Tharg needs to stop using Sinister Dexter as filler (well that's how I imagine it anyway not based on anything as silly as fact!) and give it the good long run it deserves - thus making a bit of recap worth while.

Mmmm.  I feel a letter to Tharg coming on.  Just as long as he doesn't end up with those awful full-page recap/title things he infested the prog with back in 1989/90.  I mean, I like nice Bisley pen-and-ink-wash as much as the next man, but not every bloody week.

[Dandontdare]

I thought the opening episode to the current run (and the last one) was a masterclass in recap storytelling. In those five pages, nothing much happened but all the major characters were referenced and their place in the story (briefly) explained. I seem to recall Flint and Meanie still found this episode boring and/or confusing.

If you want stories with over-arching plotlines and real develeopment, that don't get "reset" every few episodes, then you've got to expect some confusion when you're late to the party. I think Abnett has done stirling work bringing us back up to speed after the (frustratingly frequent) breaks in the story.

There is NO recap at all in Dredd, and it also had a long and complex build up, yet you don't level the same criticism at that.