Small press digital comics hub?

[Ghastly McNasty]

Anyone interested in digital downloads?

If 'someone' were to set up a website that sold digital downloads of UK small press comics, with all revenues going to creators, would people be interested in that? Or is that treading on the toes of selling hard copies?

[Emp edit: Split off from here.]

[Emperor]

Anyone interested in digital downloads?

If 'someone' were to set up a website that sold digital downloads of UK small press comics, with all revenues going to creators, would people be interested in that? Or is that treading on the toes of selling hard copies?

I think it'd be a good idea, you can get your comic on the iPad through Graphic.ly but clearly they and Apple get a big cut, which is worth paying for added exposure (as any extra sales are sales you'd not have had otherwise). However, if you could have your principle digital comic as a download where you get a bigger cut of the cash then that'd be more attractive I suspect. People not wanting to cannibalise hard copy sales could delay releasing the digital version, in the model Mark Millar suggested.*

I did post something on how people could sell digital downloads cheaply elsewhere but it is not ideal and a bit fiddly so someone sorting out the technical aspects like that would be ideal. There would also be advantages in having a centralised digital small press market as it'd make it easier for people to stumble across other titles.

So yes, it seems a good idea to me, and well worth exploring.

* It'd work quite well for the larger publisher and it works in a similar way to films - you have the comic book as your first wave of sales through more specialist outlets (like the film being released in the cinema), then the trade paperback collection (like the DVD/Blu-ray) and then digital archive (like the rental/streaming market). Probably only works if you are listed by Diamond in Previews (or another way of getting physical copies under the noses of a lot of people), otherwise you'd either want to go day-and-date digital, as overseas postage gets prohibitively expensive (there are some comics I'm interested in from the US bit it is arsearche getting them and I'd buy them digitally in a heartbeat) and digital can stop the small press from being too localised, or even serialise digitally (say 10-15 pages for 99 cents) and then go to print for a collected version (I think this is one publishing model Warren Ellis has kicked around, he is trying to come up with new ways to do comics online without just replicating print publishing digitally, as he has done managed to do with FreakAngels).

[Ghastly McNasty]

Just read the Mark Millar piece. Some interesting points. I can see that it would be crazy to sell cheaper more accesible versions of a comic digitally on the same day as releasing the hard copy. I wonder how would customers feel about paying full price for a digital? Might it just encourage them to buy the real thing or put them off completely?

Can't help but think a website promoting small press releases and selling them digitally would be good for everyone involved.

Any Futurequake or small press owners reading this? Would this be something you would commit to if you got say 90% of all revenue from sales?

[Emperor]

Do you want me to split this off, as it might get more attention in its own dedicated thread?

Just read the Mark Millar piece. Some interesting points. I can see that it would be crazy to sell cheaper more accesible versions of a comic digitally on the same day as releasing the hard copy.

It isn't necessarily crazy, although it might unnecessary be for someone in Millar's position who can get widespread distribution for his print comics (CLiNT getting him into newsagents which is better than most people at the Big Two). The problem is that a cheap day-and-date digital edition is that it undermines the local comic book stores trade and the industry still relies on them. Also with a larger publisher a lot of the costs are from the production side of things, so you can't get a decent discount down to the price a lot of digital consumers would expect.

With the small press the problems are that you don't get the distribution and the bulk of the costs of a comic are in the printing and postage, so going day-and-date digital at a lower price point makes a lot of sense (to me), especially as your main buyers are going to serious comics fans who value the physical artefact while a digital version increases availability and convenience for those who need it. After all most people contribute to the small press to get their work read by the most people, so digital helps with that too.

[edit: Just to say that a few people use Lulu, like Paragon and Starscape. ]

[Daveycandlish]

Shane Chebsey's Smallzone is the only one I know of - it sells British small press and independent comics (although the coverage is patchy and they don't seem to offer recent editions of FutureQuake, Zarjaz, Paragon, Omnivastiscope, etc.):

Smallzone no longer take individual issues but will take on collecteds or graphic novels which is why you haven't seen the recent stuff there.
Geekchocolate are trying to put together the complete list of small press comics in the UK so check their website soon to see how that pans out

If 'someone' were to set up a website that sold digital downloads of UK small press comics, with all revenues going to creators, would people be interested in that? Or is that treading on the toes of selling hard copies?

As Emperor said, I do offer a digital download of PARAGON through lulu, but any further exposure to the public is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If 'someone' were to set it up I'd be happy to contribute

[Emperor]

Do you want me to split this off, as it might get more attention in its own dedicated thread?

I went and did it as it seemed a good idea to me.

[Ghastly McNasty]

Is there anyone around who purchases digital? Comixology, DC, Marvel? I don't do it myself and I haven't got an iPad so need to know the views of those who do.

What would people want from a website that sold UK small press comics? That's a question to both comic creators and readers.

[John Caliber]

I buy very few comics these days - I've sampled lots in the shops but none appeal. But, for the few I do want (BPRD, Hellboy) I plump for digital any day - saves shelf-space, mainly. I'm happy to pay the full price for digital comics, IF they are made available on the same day as the physical copy. I want to go entirely digital with 2000AD/Meg, but the intentional delay in making them available is a nuisance. I end up buying the hardcopies, then recycle them once the digital versions emerge.

[John Caliber]

I thought a good idea might be to offer the digital version at the SAME price as the hardcopies on the same day of publication. Then, say a month later, offer the digitals at 3/4 or 1/2 price, rather than delay the digital versions for a frustrating length of time.

[Ghastly McNasty]

Hi John, do you have an iPad to view your downloads or just to your PC? What file format do you use?

I think in principle it's a marvelous idea to have all UK small press located in one website selling downloads and even hard copies posted direct from the creators.

I did a bit of investigating in to the subject. Making sure the comic creators get a decent share of the money (would only be 90% after Paypal fees) means the site would have to adopt a not-for-profit stance. This would also mean that once it's setup it would need minimal maintenance from the site owner. Therefore the site would require comic creators to upload their own comics and manage their own products.

Clickwheel offers something similar but it doesn't seem like many creators has taken them up and uploaded their own stuff. With all the other comic sites out there I'm not sure their is demand for a new site doing this.

[John Caliber]

I view my digital comics on either my PC, my laptop, or my TV, which is connected to my PC. The TV is my favoured platform. The comic pages can be resized to span the screen's width so I can easily view the comics from a distance of 15 feet. Nice to lay back in my recliner and 'read' the backlit TV screen. I use a wireless mouse and keyboard to navigate the pages.

However, most comics, even those created specifically for computers, still appear to be stuck with the tradition of being drawn in A4/Letter/US comic size, meaning the reader has to keep scrolling up and down each page. Of course, the more practical format is to only have 1-3 panels per page (depending how much information each panel contains), then 'slideshow' through the panels.

The most common digital formats are PDF, .cbr and .cbz (the latter two are simply renamed .rar and .zip files). Any of these formats works for me, although the latter two are allied with software offering more navigation options than PDF.

I think that it's always worth a go selling digital graphic novels (and comics) through Amazon. Even if the costs are higher than going it alone with a self-authored website (Amazon taking a % of each sale), Amazon offers more exposure and a sense of greater legitimacy.

[briantm]

What I'd really like to see is an Irish/UK webcomics initiative, along the lines of what http://www.act-i-vate.com/ did. (Quite a polished looking site now but they started out with just a blog and a page a week each from a small number of creators.)

It would be great if more small press creators should put their stuff online free - viewable via a web interface and downloadable as pdf/cbr - get as much exposure as possible.

For example, does Future Quake Press make any money from Zarjaz or FutureQuake or do they just breaking even and are doing it for the love of it?
It would be cool to see FQP turn into a scifi and toothfic webcomic collective.

[John Caliber]

Legally, any fanzine cannot make any profit as long as they use trademarked characters and graphics, but it's often not worth the trademark-holder prosecuting, particulary if the fanzines' sales do not impinge on official figures; fanzines offer free advertisements and free labour. A gentle exploitation if you like, but initiated by the fans. Creative flagellation

One way to go - and a very difficult path it is to take, requiring years of concerted hard work with co-creators who burn with the same zeal - has to be the origination of fresh, entirely original, high-quality comics that are not fanzines, pastiches, homages or spinoffs. No superheroes, no horror, no sci-fi, no good girl art; stories that are about the man on the street, the council estates, modern family relations, politicos. Good ideas to educate and inspire, not simply to tranquilise or amuse. Too much of that crap about. Otherwise, we are running in ever-decreasing circles and sinking into obscurity. It's not enough to keep to the static sequential art model. Animation, sound, interactivity - all catch the eye in the modern age. It's not enough to be good quality - it has to be contemporary.

Or mayhaps I'm entirely wrong, but isn't debate good for the soul? 

[Ghastly McNasty]

It's not enough to keep to the static sequential art model. Animation, sound, interactivity - all catch the eye in the modern age. It's not enough to be good quality - it has to be contemporary.

I'm really into this John, but mostly I sound like an cackling soothsayer whenever I start banging on about these new types of comics that use emerging technologies to be something more than just paper based. I still think there are unopened doors and new avenues to be explored.

Something similar was very briefly touched upon here.

I am almost zealous when it comes to this stuff too. However, not pointing any fingers or trying to inflame, there's a certain level of resistance to change that runs deep in the comic creators universe. Maybe it's the fondness people have for comics in their original format, the touch of the paper, the filling of bookshelves. Why change something that works so well. I love the comic format too, even with all this digital tech I'd still want to see a paper based version too. Nu-digital comics don't have to turn their back on paper versions.

I see it like DVDs. Although I rarely watch the extra content that come with most film, some people love it and it increases their enjoyment of a product tenfold. How many times have you finished a GN and wanted more. There's an option here to give people more. Why shouldn't it be grabbed whole-heartedly.

This is a whole other discussion really though (and it has been had many times before). To return to this thread's original purpose I'm still really tempted to make a small press digital comics hub. Not got the time to do it at the mo.

I actually had an iPad for crimbo and I must say it rocks. It's brilliant for reading comics on. Tablets will be in every home soon. It would be great to be using their full potential. Beware the Ides of March.

[John Caliber]

I wasn't sure if I was being a bit too militant with my last post, but I've got some of Life's relationship problems hanging about my neck at the moment and sometimes the pressure starts to vent in undesired directions.

I know that my ideas for a change of comic distribution ideology and the mechanics of the comics themselves won't be popular, and if the market was healthier then I would LOVE LOVE LOVE nothing more than creating genre strips for the rest of my days. It's all great if no money is ever expected to made from them, but merely replicating the same old ideas but on a more expensive scale (and risking financial meltdown for the publishers) isn't the answer.

But the tide is changing and you don't need to have wealthy parents or a successful business background to publish in 2012. I just don't see anything produced in the UK with a strong political or sociological statement (nothing of any great merit or quality); we're trapped in a Time Loop of nostalgia and lack of confidence.

Entirely by accident I happened to chat with some teachers who use home-made comics to convey ideas to behaviourally-challenged children, and there's a market right there which I'm considering becoming involved with. Instead of pleasing ourselves with sci-fi homages, let's do something that's actually useful for the larger society. The Western world is in a hell of a state and we need practical, inspirational comics, not violence, cyborgs or talking rats. Let's kill off the Antihero (basically the avatar of the angry fanboy) and give comics a minimum level of self-respect once more.

There are fantastic pieces of harmless and throwaway entertainment coming out of the fanzines and what's left of the professional UK comics zone; nothing wrong with one-dimensional pulp to titilate tired brains at the end of long working days. But a lot of it is huge effort and talent throwing itself down a toilet of its own making.