2000AD envorimentile Guilt

[Cyberleader2000]

OK im now starteing to feal guility about haveing the prog and magazine on subscription as it no longer arives in a recykibile paper envlope now it comes in a non-reclibile plastick bag.

I feal that I shoud note my objechion to this as its adding to our abuses of the envoriment.

[locustsofdeath!]

Actually, this is a very good point. Thargie, you do want to keep our Earth around long enough to completely and utterly conqueror it with Thrill Power, don't you? Don't be an environmental Thrill-Sucker!

[JOE SOAP]

What about all those plastic 'Gundam' toys and their box inserts?

Doesn't the Meg have a plastic wrap with the supplements anyway?

[Cyberleader2000]

What about all those plastic 'Gundam' toys and their box inserts?

Doesn't the Meg have a plastic wrap with the supplements anyway?

I allways had that problem with the meg but this is complaint is about them changing from a envoriminitily friendley was to a un-envoriminitiuly friendley way

and about my figeres I break up the packaging I do not wish to keep and recycle them

[Trout]

Isn't it better that it doesn't use as much paper?

Also, this is almost certainly a cost-cutting measure. It means staff aren't needed to stuff envelopes by hand. Plastic wrap like that is probably automated. I've seen it where I work - it comes off the line already wrapped.

Of course, nobody wants anyone to lose their jobs, but if it keeps the prog healthy it's hard to argue. (That's much more right-wing than I normally am.)

- Trout

[Roger Godpleton]

Do you know what's worse than plastic bags? War.

Sometimes, there are people who make a war. Do you know what it's for?

Business. That's what.

Please say that you, will Stop The War.

[Emperor]

Isn't it better that it doesn't use as much paper?

Sadly, yes. Although problematic in terms of disposal, plastic bags win hands down in terms of resources used to manufacture and distribute them:

Wrap, the government-funded company set up to reduce waste, summarises the drawbacks of paper bags: while from a renewable source and biodegradable, compostable and recyclable, they require far more energy to make and transport than plastic, have less re-use potential and produce methane if dumped in landfill.

"Faced with the question of paper or plastic, the answer should always be neither," says Reuseit.com. According to a 2007 study (funded by US plastic bag manufacturers), it takes almost four times as much energy to manufacture a paper bag as a plastic bag. Paper-bag manufacture uses 20 times as much water as plastic and paper requires more energy to be recycled.

www.guardian.co.uk/environment/shortcuts/2011/dec/20/paper-plastic-bags-which-best

So when it comes to paper vs plastic bags for shopping you should reuse (the second R in the Three Rs and the one you should always try for before moving on to Recycle) the plastic ones you have and/or use cloth "bags for life."

When it comes to whether the prog should be sent out in a plastic or paper bag, the admittedly counter-intuitive answer is that plastic bags are the clear winner. And that is before we even factor in this also means a great reduction in Soggy Prog Syndrome.

If you are concerned that you now have a rogue plastic bag on your hands and don't know what to do with it, then the answer is to recycle it. You'd need to find out what the specific type of plastic is but I'd suspect it must be similar to a plastic bag and a lot of supermarkets now collect old ones for recycling:

www.recyclenow.com/what_can_i_do_today/can_it_be_recycled/plastic/carrier_bags.html

If you are further concerned at the level of our plastic recycling and the limit range of plastics currently being recycled, when compared to Japan:

www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/dec/29/japan-leads-field-plastic-recycling

Then lobby your MP. Where I live they don't even collect the PET plastic drinks bottles (although you can take batches of them to the local tip where they have facilities for collecting them) but there is no way to recycle yoghurt pots or plastic food packaging, and this needs to be addressed.

Hope that helps.

[JOE SOAP]

Anyone who seriously wants to contribute to saving the earth in this way -or believe it needs to be- shouldn't consume superfluous goods of entertainment or satiation. The point is there's too much of everything whether it's paper or plastic or resource depletion/pollution and no amount of recycling will change that since recycling also consumes resources and produces waste in some form whether it's manufature of machinery or otherwise.

If you seriously believe change needs to happen, adopt a more modest and frugal lifestyle. There are no magic bullets, plasters or lifestyle rearrangements to support an easy transition we can slot into that don't require a big sacrifice in the way we live. Definitely no governments can solve it, they can't even balance a budget.

[vzzbux]

Its the long term conditions regarding plastic compared to paper.
Plastic companies spout off all these figures on how much more it takes to produce paper but compare a plastic bag breakdown time to a paper bag.
http://blog.greenfeet.com/index.php/paper-vs-plastic-the-shopping-bag-debate/reducing-your-footprint/121
http://www.angelfire.com/wi/PaperVsPlastic/
http://www.allgreenthings.com/store/pc/Paper-vs-Plastic-d9.htm
I don't normally do the tree hugging lecture but lets create a better world for our younglings.




V

[JOE SOAP]

It's mass consumerism and the resource drain that's the problem not particularly the materials themselves

[Emperor]

Anyone who seriously wants to contribute to saving the earth in this way -or believe it needs to be- shouldn't consume superfluous goods of entertainment or satiation. The point is there's too much of everything whether it's paper or plastic or resource depletion/pollution and no amount of recycling will change that since recycling also consumes resources and produces waste in some form whether it's manufature of machinery or otherwise.

Indeed - worrying about a plastic bag is a bit odd if people are upgrading their phones when the latest model comes out, buying giant tellies when you've still got a perfectly serviceable one (my TV, both couches and my phone are all from my brother because there was nothing wrong with them when he was upgrading them - Hell I have even sidestepped the thorny paper/plastic prog bag debate by having a small child pedal around and stuck and unwrapped prog through my letterbox. I still consume too much but I am working on reducing my environmental impact, if only I could reduce methane emissions I'd be laughing, just not at farts any more and that is a different kind of laughter), or getting plastic models in all their packaging flown in from half way around the globe . Of course, it isn't either/or but if this was part of a larger effort to implement the Three Rs you'd already be recycling your old plastic bags that are beyond reuse.

If you seriously believe change needs to happen, adopt a more modest and frugal lifestyle. There are no magic bullets, plasters or lifestyle rearrangements to support an easy transition we can slot into that don't require a big sacrifice in the way we live. Definitely no governments can solve it, they can't even balance a budget.

Well they can introduce more laws forcing companies to reduce packaging and recycle more, plus they can work to make it easier for us to recycle more (introducing a 5p charge for plastics bags would also be a step - Wales have done and the world didn't end*). Unfortunately, they all seem to rely on economic models that require constant growth.

Its the long term conditions regarding plastic compared to paper.
Plastic companies spout off all these figures on how much more it takes to produce paper but compare a plastic bag breakdown time to a paper bag.
http://blog.greenfeet.com/index.php/paper-vs-plastic-the-shopping-bag-debate/reducing-your-footprint/121
http://www.angelfire.com/wi/PaperVsPlastic/
http://www.allgreenthings.com/store/pc/Paper-vs-Plastic-d9.htm
I don't normally do the tree hugging lecture but lets create a better world for our younglings.

Of course, the conclusion best underlined by that last link is the answer is: neither. Their statistics also show it is also more complicated than plastic = bad, paper = good when you take the whole production and disposal into account.

* Insert Welsh joke here

[Roger Godpleton]

We need to start using human fat to make things. End of discussion. Thread locked.

[Emperor]

We need to start using human fat to make things. End of discussion. Thread locked.

And by "we" I assume you are referring to the rest of us, as you've been lathering up with adipocere for years?

[O Lucky Stevie!]

Hell I have even sidestepped the thorny paper/plastic prog bag debate by having a small child pedal around and stuck and unwrapped prog through my letterbox. 

 

Don't be going all Paul Gadd on us now Emperor.

[Rog69]

I work in the print and mail sector, I'm an engineer for a company that manufactures machines that insert letters into envelopes and I am guessing that the move to using plastic rather than paper envelopes is probably because our progs are now machine processed rather than inserted by hand.

The type of envelopes used previously, the gummed ones that don't require moistening to seal, are generally not used in automated mailing machines so it's probably a safe bet that they used to be done by hand.

The majority of companies that process magazine mailing use plastic wrapping on machines like these - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_aog_AdPFw.

I doubt environmental reasons had anything to do with the change, it's just the way the industry is.