Dredd, ABC Warriors, Strontium Dog....still all one reality?

[ElliotJA]

I'm aware that in past stories, Dredd had encounters with Strontium Dog and the ABC Warriors. The SD crossover certainly seemed to strongly imply that SD exists in the future of Dredd's world. But I've also heard that John Wagner has said that he doesn't view Dredd and Strontium Dog as sharing the same continuity, and that most of those earlier crossovers have since been retconned in some way. So what's the situation here?

[The Cosh]

No and they never have been. Despite what Robin will have you bbelieve.

[jmean]

did dredd ever meet the A B C Warriors?

[ICONIC_TM]

Check Memory bank 
in welcome on board, its a start?

[IndigoPrime]

I'm aware that in past stories, Dredd had encounters with Strontium Dog and the ABC Warriors. The SD crossover certainly seemed to strongly imply that SD exists in the future of Dredd's world. But I've also heard that John Wagner has said that he doesn't view Dredd and Strontium Dog as sharing the same continuity, and that most of those earlier crossovers have since been retconned in some way. So what's the situation here?

Alpha's shown up in Dredd twice: Top Dog and Judgment Day. I don't recall either being retconned per se, but Wagner just ignores stuff he no longer considers canon, even if he's written it.

ABC Warriors never fully appeared in Dredd, although Mill's wrote that Hammerstein series that crossed over when the first movie appeared. A judge also appears in Nemesis, and Mega City One's construction is mentioned in Ro-Busters at some point. And with Fr1day showing up in Dredd too, you could argue that series is also a part of Dredd's future. And then there are stories supposedly part of Dredd's past, including Invasion.

Me, I prefer to think of these as amusing throwaway stories and not get too hung up on continuity and crossovers. It's pretty clear Mills is heavily reworking the backstory for ABC Warriors, linking it through to Invasion, but breaking ties with Dredd. Strontium Dog's had a reboot (the TV series script), a wiggle (ditching ideas from that first series and bringing it more into line with the original) and then a further nudge (Alpha's resurrection), and so Wagner might argue they are also no longer tied. Mind you, Judgment Day was a pretty big event in Dredd's history; still, you can always use the wibbly wobbly timey wimey excuse that works so well in Doctor Who!

[radiator]

Dredd, ABC Warriors, Strontium Dog....still all one reality?

Depends who you ask. The links are there if you want to follow them - personally I don't like the idea of a shared timeline as it doesn't make sense and limits stories rather than improving them.

Pat Mills seems to enjoy tying all of his stories and universes together, John Wagner has stated that as far as he's concerned Dredd and Stront are not part of the same timeline.

There was a Dredd/Hammerstein crossover at the time of the 1995 movie, presumably to explain why there was a Hammerstein warbot in the film. A judge also appears in Nemesis the Warlock, which very definitely does share a timeline/universe with ABC Warriors. Johnny Alpha has appeared in Dredd a few times via time travel (presumably Alan Grant's idea?), but as I said above, this concept never really made a lot of sense to me, as Strontium Dog is very clearly set in a future version of 'our' Britain - places like Salisbury, Upminster and Milton Keynes, not in a future post-post-post-apocalypse 'Brit-Cit'.

There's a theory that Strontium Dog is a 'possible' future timeline of Dredd's, but I don't buy that either.

Me, I prefer to think of these as amusing throwaway stories and not get too hung up on continuity and crossovers.

This. I see the various 'crossovers' as akin to the bit in The Phantom Menace where we see ET-type aliens in the senate. It's a nice little wink to the audience, not 'proof' that ET and Star Wars exist in the same shared universe.

[ICONIC_TM]

wibbly wobbly timey wimey excuse 

[ElliotJA]

So if they exist in different universes, how do we explain how Strontium Dog is able to visit Mega-City One and Judge Dredd via time travel (rather than dimensional travel, which Judge Death used to visit Gotham City)?

And doesn't Satanus feature heavily in both ABC Warriors and Nemesis? He's been firmy intrenched in the Dreddverse.

[radiator]

So if they exist in different universes, how do we explain how Strontium Dog is able to visit Mega-City One and Judge Dredd via time travel (rather than dimensional travel, which Judge Death used to visit Gotham City)?

And doesn't Satanus feature heavily in both ABC Warriors and Nemesis? He's been firmy intrenched in the Dreddverse.

As I said, there are things to explore if you like that sort of thing, you can even come up with contrivances for how it all fits together despite making no sense.

If you'd rather ignore it, then you can do that.

[ICONIC_TM]

different Time lines not the same as different dimensions?

Check this out again helps to understand some of it?

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/o/omnimap.htm

[ElliotJA]

Well to be fair, I'm not particularly enamoured of the idea that Strontium Dog's world is the future of the Dreddverse. It just seems a tad bit contrived to me. It's the same with the references to Flesh in Satanus' origin in The Cursed Earth. Personally, I prefer to think that those dinosaur farmers came from an alternate/possible 23rd century, where dinosaurs had never been cloned back in the 2000s. In other words, that future is not Dredd's future.

What about all the Invasion/Savage stuff though, with Britain being invaded by the Volgs at the end of the twentieth century? Is all that still part of the Dreddverse's past history?

[radiator]

In terms of actual, proper established crossovers or shared universes of note, I can take:

Pat Mills' stories:
Savage
Flesh
Invasion!
ABC Warriors
Nemesis the Warlock
Ro-Busters
(Even though it's a bit of a stretch to imagine Savage and Nemesis as sharing a universe but there you go...)

Rogue Trooper:
Rogue Trooper (classic and Friday flavours)
Venus Bluegenes
Mercy Heights
Tor Cyan
The '86ers

Ian Edginton's stories:
Ampney Crucis Investigates...
Stone Island (?)
The Red seas
Stickleback
Leviathan

Strontium Dog and direct spin-offs

Sinister Dexter and direct spin-offs

Judge Dredd and direct spin-offs (Anderson, Death, Chopper etc)

What about all the Invasion/Savage stuff though, with Britain being invaded by the Volgs at the end of the twentieth century? Is all that still part of the Dreddverse's past history?

Again, depends who you ask. Wagner notably didn't do anything to explicitly contradict this in when he wrote Origins, but he also chose not to reference it at all.

I'm not particularly enamoured of the idea that Strontium Dog's world is the future of the Dreddverse.

Same here, though weirdly I don't mind the idea of Dredd and Alpha meeting (if they could come up with a better way of writing it). Al Ewing wrote a Dredd story called The Americans about this very thing a few years ago, that at least attempted to tie up the loose ends of the Dredd/Stront paradox.

[JOE SOAP]

(Even though it's a bit of a stretch to imagine Savage and Nemesis as sharing a universe but there you go...)

When you consider the several millenia that separates them it's not so hard.


I consider the internal 2000AD crossovers with Dredd the same way as I consider the Alien/Batman ones, I don't. The way Wagner writes Dredd doesn't lend so well to the idea, it's a different case with Mills-verse which works fine, generally.

[ICONIC_TM]

Step side Ways dimensionally, Then move up the time line, Cross back
over twice, Go round the roundabout take the third slip road Don`t miss
it coz you`ll end up back where you started

That`s all i`m saying?

[fonky]

I quite liked Satanus appearing in Dredd, Nemesis and Flesh of course. The explanation for him appearing in Dredd is almost identical to Jurrasic Park. I thought the "Blood of Satanus" story was excellent as well. A lot of this is a variation on a theme - you either love or hate that sort of thing. Some I love some I don't. You pays your money and take your choice.

"Death" in the shape of the figure of "The Grim Reaper" (hooded cloaked skeleton with sycthe and sands of time)  is a character that crops up in many different stories and legends, comics, songs etc. List 'em there are hundreds of 'em : 1) Homer The Illiad (as Charon), (2) Charles Dickens "A Christmas Carol",.....etc