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Author Topic: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground  (Read 5607 times)

McNulty

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #30 on: 04 March, 2013, 10:00:45 PM »
The one off story seemed a bit familar, but I couldn't place it

It reminded me about this one...


McNulty

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #31 on: 04 March, 2013, 10:12:26 PM »

Steve Green

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #32 on: 05 March, 2013, 09:12:42 AM »
I read the Dredd and thought it was East Meg 2 where the internees were sent - my musing was that they wouldn't have the 'east' in their own name for their city - east of where from their perspective? Having read this thread I'm not sure - why would a city under construction habe 5 million tonnes of food going spare? The swap for slave labour makes sense and is now my take. Not clear either way though.

It doesn't make an awful lot of sense for them to call themselves East Meg, but they do call themselves that in the Apocalypse War - and is less confusing when you need to establish locations.

If the sign had been omitted, it probably would have read a little better.

Mike Carroll

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #33 on: 05 March, 2013, 10:45:44 AM »
Hi all,
These days I generally try not to respond publicly to comments and criticisms about something I've written (though I will always do my best to reply if someone asks me directly), but the ending of "Wolves" does seem to be causing some confusion so I'm breaking my rule...

First point of confusion: the last few captions on episode 3, page 6... Here's how they break down:

Panel 3: Hershey, we're throwing them to the wolves [...]
That's Dredd. Should be an obvious one, as he mentions Hershey by name.

Panel 4: They can't stay here, Dredd. [...]
Hershey. Again, obvious as she uses Dredd's name. Keen-eyed observers will note that this caption doesn't have a closing quotation mark, indicating that she's not done talking. that was clearer in the script because it ended with a long dash, and the next caption began with one.

Panel 5, caption 1: If you have a better solution [...]
Hershey, continuing from the previous caption. In the script, this caption was also on panel 4 - don't know why it was moved to panel 5.

Panel 5, caption 2: I do. It's not ideal, but...
Dredd, responding to Hershey's comment. Again, you'll see that Dredd's caption doesn't have a closing quotation mark, and ends with an ellipsis: he's not finished talking.

Panel 6: ...It'll give them a fighting chance.
Dredd, continuing his sentence from the previous panel.


Second point of confusion:
Where are they going? Well, here's the script for last few panels of page 6, episode three:

----------
3. On the two huge hovercraft, now both on the ground. Judges and Marines stand guard as hundreds of Sovs line up to get on board.

CAPTION:   “HERSHEY, WE’RE THROWING THEM TO THE WOLVES SO THAT THE REST OF US CAN HAVE FULL BELLIES.”


4. Ext. Evening. Cursed Earth. The two hovercraft are in the air.

CAPTION:   “THEY CAN’T STAY HERE, DREDD. AND THEY WON’T SURVIVE IN THE CURSED EARTH—

CAPTION:   “—BUT IF YOU HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION, LET’S HEAR IT.”


5. Ext. Dusk. The hovercraft are approaching a mega-city which is silhouetted against the setting sun.

CAPTION:   “I DO. IT’S NOT IDEAL. BUT…


6. Ext. City gates. We see Dmitry and his wife and son, with many others – including Jason – escorted by Judges and Marines as they walk away from the hovercraft, toward the gates. They’re all wearing backpacks with “Survival Pack” on the back. Next to the gates we see a large sign: “Now Entering Mega-City Two.”

CAPTION:   “…IT’LL GIVE THEM A FIGHTING CHANCE.”

End.

So: The Sovs are being relocated to Mega-City Two (for extra clarity: that's the Mega-City Two on the west coast of North America, not some Sov-based city that happens to use the same name). You'd have to ask the artist why there are Sov Judges present, why there's a pic of the Sov ambassador on the side of the building, and why some of the background buildings look a bit "Sovvy" - as you'll see from above, none of those are in the script. The Sov-looking typeface on the "Welcome to Mega-City Two" sign adds to the confusion (as does its position on the gate - it does look like it's on the wrong side!).

Sometimes I get to see the artwork before it's published (for example: PJ Holden sends me the pages as he completes each one - and just wait until you see the magnificent job he's doing on "The Forsaken"!), and if I'd seen Mr. Currie's work in advance I would have asked for that last panel to be changed. But I didn't see the artwork until my copy of the prog arrived yesterday morning, and obviously it was far too late then!

Hope that clears up some of the confusion!

- Mike

Proudhuff

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #34 on: 05 March, 2013, 11:00:41 AM »
Thanks Mike, that makes perfect sense to me now  :-[
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Steve Green

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #35 on: 05 March, 2013, 11:31:38 AM »
Cheers Mike,

makes more sense in the script - the sov stylings in the final page threw me.

Hawkmonger

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #36 on: 05 March, 2013, 11:36:11 AM »
Frankly i've given up on MC2. It's a continuity shit storm.

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #37 on: 05 March, 2013, 11:39:20 AM »
Mike, you're a gent - thank you. It seems the art droid's cocked up.

Dredd changed Hershey's initial plan by sending the expelled Sovs to Mega-City 2 (in America) rather than East-Meg 2 (in Russia). There's the dramatic clout I was missing initially. Good  stuff.

It appears the art droid hasn't picked up on what Dredd's done (ie. his "better solution") and has drawn the last panel as if they've made it back to East-Meg 2 as originally planned.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #38 on: 05 March, 2013, 11:52:03 AM »
Thanks, Mike. The funny thing is, if it was a case of "dump them in MC2" (presumably decontaminated somehow), that's more interesting than "dump them in MC2, now owned/run by the Sov administration". The former could allow a new city state to start up and open up a bone of contention later if needed. The latter just strikes me as odd. Perhaps everyone will get their go on MC2; give it a year and it'll be being run by the Swedes.

JamesC

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #39 on: 05 March, 2013, 01:06:21 PM »
Thanks for breaking your rule - I think it was warranted on this occasion.
I can only imagine how disheartening it must be to have your story met with confusion and criticism (which genuinely seem to relate to the art job rather than the script) but rest assured I look forward to your next script!   

Mike Carroll

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #40 on: 05 March, 2013, 01:21:26 PM »
I can only imagine how disheartening it must be to have your story met with confusion and criticism (which genuinely seem to relate to the art job rather than the script) but rest assured I look forward to your next script!

It can be a little mystifying when that happens, but that's the nature of the business - sometimes things are changed, or they just don't work out as expected! Mr. Currie's inclusion of Sov Judges in the scene does throw a spanner into the works regarding my future plans, but adversity brings opportunity: it may well be that this will spin the future stories in a direction I might not otherwise have thought of...

-- Mike

Mabs

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #41 on: 05 March, 2013, 01:46:04 PM »
I very much appreciate you taking the time to forwarding your side of the story, Mike. And thanks to you clearing up a few things my reading of Wolves will hopefully be a much more enjoyable read, come tomorrow when i pick my copy up. Thank you!
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Colin_YNWA

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #42 on: 05 March, 2013, 02:06:00 PM »
Its good to have clarification and it does seem that most of the problems with the ending come from artistic choices.

This is a possible example of something I've raised here before. From all reports Matt Smith, either by design, or necessity, has quite a hands off approach to editing and its fair to say normally we reap the benefit of that in getting quality stories from creators able to revel in their freedom. This is potentially the down side and really it should (I believe) be the editors job to see the problems that last panel would create, as clearly evidenced here and get some changes made.

Now the specifics I'm of course not aware of (nor indeed the more general points I make (but there is evidence to support those), so maybe deadlines were a factor, who knows, but it is a shame. 

Matt Timson

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #43 on: 05 March, 2013, 02:44:52 PM »

So: The Sovs are being relocated to Mega-City Two (for extra clarity: that's the Mega-City Two on the west coast of North America, not some Sov-based city that happens to use the same name). You'd have to ask the artist why there are Sov Judges present, why there's a pic of the Sov ambassador on the side of the building, and why some of the background buildings look a bit "Sovvy" - as you'll see from above, none of those are in the script. The Sov-looking typeface on the "Welcome to Mega-City Two" sign adds to the confusion (as does its position on the gate - it does look like it's on the wrong side!).

Sometimes I get to see the artwork before it's published (for example: PJ Holden sends me the pages as he completes each one - and just wait until you see the magnificent job he's doing on "The Forsaken"!), and if I'd seen Mr. Currie's work in advance I would have asked for that last panel to be changed. But I didn't see the artwork until my copy of the prog arrived yesterday morning, and obviously it was far too late then!

Hope that clears up some of the confusion!

- Mike

Perfectly, thanks! I had wondered if it was an art goof- as a relocation to MC2 makes sense with the accompanying dialogue- but the Sov judges and blocks threw me off.

I'm amazed that you're artist doesn't actually work 'with' you, though. I don't think I've ever worked on anything that the writer hasn't seen as I've been doing it. How can it not end in tears?!?
Pffft...

Matt Timson

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Re: Prog 1822 - The Sound Of The Underground
« Reply #44 on: 05 March, 2013, 02:47:22 PM »
Arrrgh! Your. YOUR!!

Why is this stupid forum the only place on the entire cocking internet where I can't edit my posts?
Pffft...