1325 Slaine - A Case for the Defence

[Oddboy]

Thank you Almighty Mat, that pretty much summed up what I was going to say as my reply (except probably more coherantly then I would've done!)
Rape is a grotty thing, and we don't enjoy it as comic entertainment ('comic' the magazine, not 'comic' har har), where as Sl?ine stories have always been about OTT violence.
Ukko himself, while telling the story of The Horned God, argued with Nest that all the readers were interested in was "lots of hacking and slaying" and I reckon that's true.  He didn't say "hacking and raping" now, did he?

P.S. Also note that I said "been better to 'just' have her brutally tortured" - the just in inverted commas, implying a certain ammount of sarcasm. So yes, I kinda was taking the mick a bit.

[ukdane]

So, just to turn the "violence" on it's head, how come there wasn't as much fuss kicked up when  Judge Death started killing children? Isn't this  as (if not more) offensive?

[GordonR]

>>So, just to turn the "violence" on it's head, how come there wasn't as much fuss kicked up when Judge Death started killing children? Isn't this as (if not more) offensive?

Very good point.

However, I would argue that the Death story was all about returning the character to his creepy horrific roots.  For years, Death had been a bit of a camp comedy character.  To get him back to being a genuine horror and menace again, John had to do something pretty horrific and memorable with him, and I think that's exactly what he did.

The child murder stuff was pretty shocking and unexpected, but it worked for exactly those reasons.  It had a visceral punch to it, and it served the purpose of the story.

[Oddboy]

Yeah, it was a "horror" story.
Sl?ine's an "action" story.
While I accept that, yes, rape is an 'action' it still doesn't quite sit right.

[Slippery PD]

Because Im presuming and Im going by memory, the act was implied(If Im wrong Im wrong).  Not shown with much graphic detail.  As Ive said now four times Naimhs death should have been enough motivation, not one person has disagreed with this.  

Also Death has killed millions, in fact the whole of his own dimension, surely that in itself implies hes a bad bastard and he kills children.  There was really nothing new in the revelation he killed children.  

In the end I just feel the death and the rape are cheap, 2000ad can make these decisions.  Im not agaisnt this per se.  But felt that it was in all rather unnecessary.  Thats all.

Yer Slippo

[Tex Hex]

That argument AUGHT to make sense, it is a fair point, but I still feel there is a difference. How many people died in Star Wars? Planets blowing up and all? Would it be as acceptable if characters were being brutally raped?
Do we not see 2K violence in the same comic book way? Is this the writers way of saying that we were never meant to ?

I wouldnt have been ruffled in the slightest if this had been the Megazine, probably due to its one time "mature" reputation.(is it still that way today?)

[W. R. Logan]

Personally I don?t really care how many women are raped, children killed, men buggered, aliens asking to see the rabbits, perps killed or any kind of extreme violence as long as it can be justified within the story. My Problem so far with the rape scene in Sl?ine is that as a story telling device we?ve seen Pat Mills use it quite a few times.
After a great start Sl?ine has started to wane over the following weeks and hopefully something will come of the scene in later episodes and not just become an ongoing thread where what is discussed here takes over from the story appearing within 2000?s pages.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

[ukdane]

Well, it could be said that Mills was using the rape scene for two purposes.

1) To show the reader that Moloch was/is a bastard, in the same way that Death killing the children was used to reinstate his "status" as an evil character.

2) Although Slaine didn't see it, it might be assumed that he could see from Niahm's body that she has been raped, and that he has therefore more incentive to hunt down a kill the creature that raped and killed his wife.

[Oddboy]

True true...


"John G. Raped & Killed My Wife"

[MOONSHINE]

2000AD is sold next to the Beano.

[paulvonscott]

Personally I'm not outraged or offended (as you suggested art).

Of course it would have just been fine if they'd tortured and killed her.  Like any of the other billions of people who have died in the pages of 2000AD in violent, horrible and distressing ways.

[Devons Daddy]

i am of the feeling it was uneccary given the overall story line. though illustrated well.this may be more to do with the artists ability then the creators request.

i am tainted by the fact pat mills is so much wrapped up in that slaine is his, perhaps this was his way of showing every one this fact.
it was not needed and slaine is boring these days.
but the art is superb.

[DavidXBrunt]

For what it's worth at this late stage, I agree with Slips.

And MOONSHINE makes a good point, although we know 2k is an adultish comic, how many newsagents do?

[Oddboy]

Erm, is anyone actually outraged and offended? Assides from a few people not really wanting to show their kids this weeks prog (fair enough) it seems almost like you're all just going through the motions.

Thinking about this... yeah we are, aren't we?
When I read the prog I had nil opinions on the matter past "Eww!", which I suspect most people did.
Only when we start discussing it do we start coming up with opinions and arguments.
For my part, I have zero empathy with any of the Sl?ine characters nowadays, and I feel that Mr Mills is going through the motions more then us lot!

[ukdane]

At least they had the decency to close Niamh's legs in her burial chamber

;-)