1278: good.bad +ugly

[nathan]

All you subscribers and people with privileged newsagents, what about this week's prog, eh?

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

The second gobdropping Storming Heaven cover in three weeks. Tharg, with these psychedelic covers you are spoiling us.

Double helping of SH inside, crikey! There was a time when Green Bonce was more responsible in the thrillpower dosages he administered. For me,
Storming Heaven has been the standout strip of the year so far. Visually, the best thing in the comic for ages, this has perfect 2000AD art; intense, innovative and in your face. Shakara looks great too, but Morrison hasn't given Flint as much to work with as Irving has had from Rennie. And while I'm comparing the two, Storming Heaven wins hands down on the story front too. Shakara has neither the atmosphere or density of ideas with which Rennie has laced Storming Heaven.

Having said that Shakara is still a fine strip and in a Storming-less prog I'd have been raving about it.

I thought  Dredd this week was pretty good too. An OK script from Mr Grant boosted by fab PJ Holden art. Holden's really got to grips with the character, the depiction of Dredd in the opening panel is absolutely spot on!

Right, thats the Good. here comes the Bad and Ugly - Future Shocks. I love FSes when done well, but this shocked for all the wrong reasons. What was Steve Moore thinking? This is a man who's been writing comics professionally for over 20 years! Terrible dialogue, how many kids today say "What the blazes"? As for the ending, not so much a "!" as a "So what?".

N

[W. R. Logan]

>All you subscribers and people with privileged newsagents, what about this week's prog, eh?
>
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>S
>
>The second gobdropping Storming Heaven cover in three weeks. Tharg, with these psychedelic covers you are spoiling us.

>Double helping of SH inside, crikey! There was a time when Green Bonce was more responsible in the thrillpower dosages he administered. For me,
>Storming Heaven has been the standout strip of the year so far. Visually, the best thing in the comic for ages, this has perfect 2000AD art; intense, innovative and in your face. Shakara looks great too, but Morrison hasn't given Flint as much to work with as Irving has had from Rennie. And while I'm comparing the two, Storming Heaven wins hands down on the story front too. Shakara has neither the atmosphere or density of ideas with which Rennie has laced Storming Heaven.

What is this board coming to, posters actually agreeing with each other? 8-) SH has been a cracking read and when read in one sitting stands out even more, although beware of thrill power overload when taking on such an endeavour. For me the Rennie droid has gone from the fill in droid of choice to one of my fave thrill merchants. Now SH has finished I find myself waiting to see what his twisted mind will come up with next. Personally I'd like to see Rennie take the reins of a more long term story where he is given the chance of taking more time on character development and maybe slightly more cliff-hanger endings. Wasn't to keen on Frazer's artwork when he first came onto the scene but over time his work has certainly grown on me and he seems to come alive with the stories with a horror or warped theme.
Shakara still entertains me, but it's no secret here that I rate Henry Flint as Tharg's top art droid and that?s what's bringing me back to Shakara week after week.

>Having said that Shakara is still a fine strip and in a Storming-less Prog I'd have been raving about it.

Will be intrigued to see how this one now develops and where Morrison is going to take it.

>I thought  Dredd this week was pretty good too. An OK script from Mr Grant boosted by fab PJ Holden art. Holden's really got to grips with the character, the depiction of Dredd in the opening panel is absolutely spot on!

PJ is another filler droid who deserves a crack at some week after week commissions. Woulkd definitely like to see a story that has PJ on the art chores that means we see his work for more than the sporadic instances than we do at the moment.

>Right, thats the Good. here comes the Bad and Ugly - Future Shocks. I love FSes when done well, but this shocked for all the wrong reasons. What was Steve Moore thinking? This is a man who's been writing comics professionally for over 20 years! Terrible dialogue, how many kids today say "What the blazes"? As for the ending, not so much a "!" as a "So what?".

Future shocks for me have lost there way recently, have we seen every shock that can be thought of or is the entry level story in need of some rethinking?

Prog 1278 was certainly thrill powered as far as I'm concerned but as we've discovered this board is full of contrasting opinions so I'm sure there must be plenty of people who disagree with myself and Nathan.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

[Thread Zero]

Just a quick post from scojo the annoying.

How about a multi part future shock story where you can develop the idea?

Say 2, 3 or 4 parts in length.

Just a thought that popped into my head.

It seems fs are not popular at the moment. Maybe, just maybe they have run their course and should go in the bin or be multi part.

Any thoughts sexy peeps....

scojo

[JTurner]

Multi part FS stories?
They tried that with Pulf Sci Fi, and all we got was Rose Orion!

I thought that the idea of FS was to come up with a short, cheesy Sci Fi story, generally their characters arn't strong enough to carry a multi part story. Look at those 2 or 3 part Tales of Telguth, I thought that they were terrible, like the Star Trek movies - shallow ideas stretched too far.

[nathan]

Future Shock format is fine as it is.
Better quality control is all that's needed.

N

[Thread Zero]

Yeah I guess so Jacob.

Oh well back to the drawing board!

scojo (who loved Star Trek 2) tearing up that multi part fs he just wrote

[Thread Zero]

I do think fs get an extreme reaction from us fans.

It really is a love or hate 'em situation.

Poor old Steeve Moore must be so tired of people attacking his work by now!:O)

scojo

[JTurner]

I have to agree that Star Trek 2 was good. And First Contact was redeemed by the fact that it was a nice Aliens spoof. Back to the FS stories, they just seem to be bulk written stories by writers who want to write something with more scope but who are limited to 6 pages. One thing that I believe perpetuates the trend of shallow stories in 2000AD is the fact that writers only seem to be selected on the merits of their 6 page stories. How many times do we hear the editors asking new writers to only submit ideas for one part stories. Obviously time spent reading submitted work is an issue, but surely ambitious writers should be allowed to send in a treatment for a longer saga, backed up by a 'pilot' first 6 page episode.

I suggest this for two main reasons;
1. The most successfull comics feature characters created for long running sagas.
2. Many writers find it easier to write long stories than condense their ideas into short stories. I write much of my own material, but I personally dislike the format of short stories, both reading and writing them. The style of writing is quite unique.

[nathan]

"Many writers find it easier to write long stories than condense their ideas into short stories. "

Which is precisely why aspiring writers need to show they can master the discipline of the short form before being trusted with longer stories.

I think one of the pro writers on the Scriptdroids yahoogroup once said Future Shocks are actually quite easy.  If a new writer can't master FSes they're not ready for bigger projects.

One of the most successful FS writers recently has been Si Spurrier. I see in the industry press (well, Borderline) that he has progressed to a longer series. This is the way it should be I think. I look forward to seeing what he's come up with.

N

[JTurner]

Trusted?
Short stories need to be recognised as a separate genre altogether, rather than a practice ground. If you read a FS story, you will see that the style of writing is very different to that of a longer story. Just as some artists are better at certain genres, so different writers are suited to certain story types.

[nathan]

"Trusted?"
Trusted because the stakes are so much higher with longer format stories. When Tharg commissions a longer script I imagine he doesn't want to have to spend valuable time bugfixing a load of newbie errors.

"Short stories need to be recognised as a separate genre altogether, rather than a practice ground."
I disagree. The length of the strip is an aspect of its form not genre.
FSes are the same length as an episode of a longer series and the skills honed in writing short strips are essential to writing successful longer stories.

That's why so many ex 2000AD writers have made it in the United States. When you're used to only 5 pages, you're going to pack an awful lot into 22.

N

[Thread Zero]

Very interesting Jacob. I tend to agree with you.

However I think 2k is very weary of hiring unknown writers just like that. They have to go through the 5 page fs routine.
However having said that, I can't think of any new writer in recent years who has written fs or Vector 13's and then gone on to write a major new series.

If I was in a confrontational mood (which I'm not!) I'd say that it's who you know as much as what you write!

Oh dear just joking!:O)))

Lets look at the evidence.
Dan Abnett was a comics writer and editor (not of 2k) before he got the 2k gig. Rob Morrison wrote for the meg before 2k. So did Rennie.

Er...that's about it.  

So why has no new writer appeared?

This isn't a rant, just something I have noticed!

scojo

[Thread Zero]

Ok here's a challenge.

IF and I'm only saying IF, a new unknown writer wrote a 15 part saga that really amazed the 2k editor, would he consider it?

Say it was in near perfect 5 page a week comic format.

I guess not. Or am I wrong Matt, new editor?

Scojo

[JTurner]

Personally, it's sour grapes on my part, 2K just seems to me like a closed network. As is the whole comics industry. I've been around the conventions for a couple of years now, and as an outsider I felt rather intimidated by what I percieved to be as much a social pecking order as an industry. Then again, maybe I was bitter because I encountered the same 'it's not what you know, but who you know' attitude in the theatre and film world (I'm a stage designer by education, despite turning my hand to other work (for the sake of getting work!)).

Jake feeling rejected by an uncaring world. But hey! You've just got to knuckle down and fight like hell to get to where you want, these days. And no, I DIDN'T expect it to be easy! (Well, maybe I did at the start - youthfull optimism, now bitter cynicism).

[Thread Zero]

Well as I'm sure everyone knows by now I am an aspiring screenwriter (well when I can bother to write!) trying to sell to Hollywood!

It's hard enough if you live in California but outside of the US it's even harder!

In H, they say you have to do networking to sell your stuff. Very who you know type place. I guess it's the same in comics.

I agree with you about fighting like hell to succeed. It really is a jungle out there and you have to be like Tarzan and assert yourself and try to ignore the critics. I think the most important thing of all is self belief. The belief that you can write, draw etc as good as the professionals.

If you start to doubt yourself too much you are in trouble.

Hence my arrogant posts here. See it all makes sense now!

scojo secure in his insecurity!