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Effective Complaining

Started by The Doctor Alt 8, 27 September, 2012, 05:41:59 PM

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The Enigmatic Dr X

As an aside, I love my library. I regulalry (at least twice a month) take my three boys there. Ages 7, 5 and 2 they are nevertheless made very welcome. The children's section is decorated seasonally (autumn, halloween, christmas, winter, summer - lots of sea shells) and all at the staff's cost. The staff are helpful, knowledgable and seem to get real pleasure from my children's enthusiasm.

And yet we stand to lose it all. On a recent school trip, only 1 in 8 kids in the class had EVER been to the library. Now this is perhaps a reflection on their parents, but those same parents are arguing that libraries are a waste of time.

They are not. They are precious centres of learning that need sheltered for our future.
Lock up your spoons!

Buttonman

I don't go myself but I agree they should be maintained as a social necessity.

I do have an issue with the giving out CDs and DVDs from the public purse. As for the internet fair enough for some vital social need like checking on he availability of services or benefits - Facebook and Fortean Times don't fall into this and I can see the benefit of blocking them so the terminals aren't being hogged by people who are ironically using them to bemoan the very service they are using.

Dandontdare

Quote from: The Doctor Alt 8 on 04 January, 2013, 05:15:46 PM
Honestly they are like monkey with bleeding hammers round here.

:lol:

Our libraries are great for comics. I've read hundreds of trades and GNs I'd never have paid for (I have 11 to take back tomorrow actually)

TordelBack

#18
I'm not sure I have the superior powers of perspective and discrimination required to distinguish between the merits of Facebook, X-Men: Messiah Complex, Barbara Taylor Bradford audiobooks, Homeopathy at Home, and The Irish Catholic newspaper, but my local library provides them all, for better or worse. 

One might even venture to suggest that the reason for this is that somebody actually wants access to all of the above, and providing access to media and the information or entertainment they contain is part of what the library system exists to facilitate.  I would be very irritated to learn that the Council was instead spending 'taxpayers' money' pontificating on which media and specific books were worthy of inclusions in the canon of 'worthy of funding', thereby restricting collections to Shakespeare, algebra, DIY, hygiene and raising chickens, such topics as the masses might truly be improved by.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here of what role libraries actually play these days - it's certainly one I used to share.  Since leaving school I didn't really venture into my local library until my income was severely reduced a few years ago, preferring to commute to the National Library and using paid-access collections for research, and to buy books, games and DVDs for my myself and my kids.  Now it is pretty much our sole source of books, games and other media. Obviously I could steal all these from teh torrentz, but well, fuck that.

I have at times in the recent past made use of its internet access when I had none of my own, for both work and entertainment, at one point even running my doomed business out of it.  Being unable to afford paid playschool, and unwilling to engage with the religiously provided variety, I have also brought my daughter to the library's play mornings and storytime so she can get a bit of group socialisation.  I've attended movie nights, puppet shows, employment seminars, local history lectures and Halloween parties. Our library is packed to the gills with kids and mature students doing homework every afternoon and evening, or just biding their time in a safe environment until their working parents get home, in addition to a sea of non-nationals and down-at-heel types using the PCs for games or social networks. 

A 'proper' modern library is a free way of accessing community services, a real aspect of which is the internet.  Taking away these services leaves you with the question of how they are going to be provided, or effectively taking the decision to exclude those who can't afford to participate from all these aspects of modern life. 

Restricted budgets are always a reality, seldom more so than now, but those who perhaps haven't used a public library since they were working their way through Biggles probably shouldn't be the ones deciding what services should or should not be offered today.

SmallBlueThing

I strongly disagree with all censorship, as well you know. I'd have libraries forced to provide uncensored internet access for free to anyone- and if that means someone has to ocassionally clean out the wank-bucket, then so be it. That's why Nobo make office partitions. I'd limit it to an hour though. After all, laptops and tablets are now so cheap and disposable, and free wi-fi so available, all they are really providing is a desk, a chair and a roof.

My library is a beautiful cornucopia of trade paperbacks that i would otherwise be unable to read, and (despite not having paid off my £60 in late fees) I love it beyond words.

SBT
.

Buttonman

An eloquent riposte Tordel and I certainly won't have the libraries going high brow - I remember devouring Tintin and Lucky Luke books in my yoof. I do think if you want a social hub you shouldn't expect it to be tax payer funded - why slave away in an office to get things like a laptop when you could hang about the library and complain about theirs? Where should the line be drawn? Coffee and biccies? Hookers, like on that Armstrong and Miller sketch?

SBT : I don't equate censorship with not providing certain sites. If a service is to be provided via the public purse it should be bare bolts with extras to be paid for by the individual - a bit like premium channels on TV.

Had to smile at your apparent contradiction - you love your library beyond words but are happy to abuse it by not paying fines. If people paid their fines no doubt they'd have more cash for books and services. Ah well, you always hurt the ones you love!

TordelBack

#21
Quote from: Buttonman on 04 January, 2013, 10:36:50 PMHookers, like on that Armstrong and Miller sketch?

Now you're talking! 

Would it annoy you to learn that the community arts centre next door to the library used to offer coffee (and WiFi and power points and seating) on a 'pay what you want' basis, or that the Council offices on the other side have a subsidised canteen?  (Doesn't stop the regular cafe across the road being full, mind, although the Starbucks round the corner closed). 

I do sympathise with the argument 'why should people get it for free when I have to work for it?', living as I do under a crippling mortgage while many of my neighbours are council tenants or on rent allowance,  but the same exact point could be made about council-owned public open space ('why should I have to mow my own grass when 'they' get 'theirs' cut for free'), public transport subsidies, the bloody health service, and pretty much anything which is made available to everyone in society, irrespective of income.  It's not like you have to be a scrounger to avail of the 'non-essentials' like parks or lifebelts or litter bins, or indeed, books and the internet.  But isn't it nice that everyone can?

TordelBack

#22
Ugh, apologies to all (and Watson in particular) for being even more of a belligerent holier-than-thou than usual - I was in a right insomniac grump last night.  Obviously the hard-working taxpayer has every right to question the use of their contribution.  I just strongly believe that money spent on libraries-as-they-are-today is much like money spent on community sports facilities/programmes for kids - every euro you spend is 2 you save down the road.   I blimmin' love libraries.

But that's no reason to be a pontificating dick about it.

SmallBlueThing

There's nothing abusive about not taking books back on time- paying late fees gives the library a valuable source of income, rather than just having this stuff for free! I just havent paid off ALL of my fees, as yet! Ha! I have donated hundreds of pounds to our library over the last few years, because books get temporarily lost in our house... And the only thing ive claimed in return has been a hardback Leviathan, which- ahem- "was damaged beyond repair" by my then infant son.

SBT
.

shaolin_monkey

Without wanting to get into any kind of political debate here, I feel libraries are one of the cornerstones of our society, for what it's worth.  They allow access to information, knowledge, education, training, and just plain entertainment to those members of society who could not otherwise afford it.  I make regular use of my library, and my children always love a visit.  I see many of the more vulnerable members of society making use of all it's functions - educationally, socially, etc etc.

Had it not been for libraries there would be no way I could have read even half the graphic novels I have.  Also, while I was without Internet at home, the library provided an incredibly valuable resource, even if it was for two hours at a time.

While I appreciate funds need to be diverted to such important things as road and rail infrastructure, health and education, allowing libraries to go into decline is a crime of the highest order. 

So in answer to the question at the start of the thread, don't ask what your library can do for you, ask what you can do for your library.  Step up and volunteer - there must be some way of getting involved.  Ask at the desk - I'm sure they'll have some answers for you.


The Doctor Alt 8

I look after my mother... which limits everything I am able to do... so I would like to volenteer but... not only do I not have that much free time on my hands.... not only do I not have my own health issues... but if the libarary staff do not know what they are doing how can they effectifly train a volenteer.?
DVD's and CD's are not FREE ... at least not in our libarary. If you want to borrrow a film/ soundtrack ... you have a fee to pay. It's less than a video store but it isn't free.
The computers were half paid for by a huge lottery grant. The reason why they were given this grant was to enable effective social communication free of charge. If the ban had been perminant and not just a silly error on the the staffs part they would have been in breach of the contract they signed when they accepted the mmoney. I dout wether the lottery commission (For all it's faults) would be too impressed at the state these machines have been allowed to get into.


COMMANDO FORCES

I blame the public using them!

The Doctor Alt 8

Yep... sometimes the smell comming from some of the other patrons.... well it's vile... And I am not joking. Even Dirty Frank would be running away..


TordelBack

Quote from: The Doctor Alt 8 on 05 January, 2013, 04:13:42 PM
Yep... sometimes the smell comming from some of the other patrons.... well it's vile... And I am not joking. Even Dirty Frank would be running away..

Yes, this is one of the drawbacks of libraries (and comics shops) everywhere.  That and the yap-yap-yap, slurp-slurp-munch and beep-tap-beep-bring-bring-dum-da-da-dum that is the persistent audio spoor of today's youth.

vzzbux

Quote from: COMMANDO FORCES on 02 January, 2013, 09:08:25 PM
As for the speed of the internet in the library, I think it should be the bare minimum. Why should people on benefits be on a slower speed just because they can't afford 50mb along with their Sky Sports and Movie package :lol:
Even if you could afford it you would be Very Very Very (etc...) lucky to get 20mb with sky let alone 50mb.





V
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