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Doctor Who Christmas Special

Started by Steve Green, 29 December, 2016, 08:59:34 PM

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Greg M.

I agree that all your points would help the programme (especially the first one, I've said it myself many times) but I almost wonder if it's too late for that, and if the show has simply had its day. Do people still care about modern Who? (I admit, this may simply be me projecting my own disenchantment with the show onto the wider audience.)

dweezil2

I know it's a cheap shot, but it's ironic for a show that sought to satirise the superhero genre, that Doctor Who has almost become a parody of itself!

Maybe I'm just old and nostalgic, but I really miss those early horror themed episodes of the Tom Baker era.

Modern who, is just too safe and cosy for my tastes, I fear.
I still watch it in the hope it'll improve, but I think it needs a drastic shake up to survive.
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IndigoPrime

Quote from: Greg M. on 30 December, 2016, 10:53:45 AM
I agree that all your points would help the programme (especially the first one, I've said it myself many times) but I almost wonder if it's too late for that, and if the show has simply had its day. Do people still care about modern Who? (I admit, this may simply be me projecting my own disenchantment with the show onto the wider audience.)
On the whole, viewing figures are fine, it sells, and it results in a ton of march ops. So I can't see it going anywhere. As for having had its day, I don't think it's any worse now than it has ever been since it came back. I suspect people are just becoming jaded with more of the 'same', even in a show that by design has to be more ambitious than most in an ongoing basis. The novelty factor has gone. Perhaps their kids are no longer interested. I dunno.

I still like it, but my main issues with the show (overbearing music; iffy theme; poor script editing) have been there since RTD, and, for that matter, for chunks of the original run too.

Tony Angelino

I gave up on Doctor Who with the by now legendary Doctor playing guitar on a tank scene. Used to enjoy the programme but now it just makes me cringe.

IndigoPrime

RTD had appalling CGI wheelie bins eating people, so, y'know.

Greg M.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 December, 2016, 05:22:32 PM
I don't think it's any worse now than it has ever been since it came back.

This is to some extent subjective, but on this point I disagree. NuWho has been a mix of the good, the bad and the occasionally great since its inception, but I feel the balance has shifted significantly in favour of the dross. The average RTD era episode was decent enough - well, in the first three seasons, anyway - but Moffat's era has gone from wildly inconsistent (with undoubted flashes of genius - Moffat's dreadful at plot logic, but he can still do atmosphere very well) to diabolical. Nothing that happens to any of the characters matters, everything can just be undone again, and even the decent ideas are at least a draft away from fulfilling their potential.

As for the younger audience - well, speaking as a teacher, I find it interesting that even into the Matt Smith run, I'd hear pupils talking about the show or professing fandom. Not any longer.

M.I.K.

Nothing will ever be as bad as the time Jesus Doctor stopped the Space-Titanic from crashing into Buckingham Palace after being carried aloft by robot angels and talking to Kylie Minogue's ghost and thanked by a grateful and wavy HM The Queen and her corgis.

But yep, everything IndigoPrime said.

Andy B

Xmas special was nothing more than OK. If they were going for something that emulated a second rate American fantasy show on the CW, they did a pretty good job. Trouble is, it was nothing like Dr Who.

Nowhere near as bad as 'Hell Bent', though... Change badly needed. Capaldi is great when he gets a decent script, but my wife and kids just don't like him and won't watch any more, and that's a problem. Beginning to be difficult to figure out who the show is being aimed at.

Andy B

Also, wasn't there some bullshit reason the Doctor couldn't go back to New York to visit Amy and Rory? What happened there?

sheridan

Quote from: Andy B on 02 January, 2017, 02:38:26 AM
Also, wasn't there some bullshit reason the Doctor couldn't go back to New York to visit Amy and Rory? What happened there?
...in 1938.  The Return of Doctor Mysterio was set in 1992.

JamesC

I thought it was about the best Xmas special they've done. Pretty good fun all around.
I agree that the show needs some stronger writing and general direction though. The show should pick a tone and stick to it. It tries to be a comedy, drama, Sci-Fi, fantasy, horror, romance all at the same time.

Steve Green

Quote from: sheridan on 02 January, 2017, 04:59:38 AM
Quote from: Andy B on 02 January, 2017, 02:38:26 AM
Also, wasn't there some bullshit reason the Doctor couldn't go back to New York to visit Amy and Rory? What happened there?
...in 1938.  The Return of Doctor Mysterio was set in 1992.

She's what, 25 when she goes back to 1938, then dies aged 87 in 2000 - doesn't that mean she would still be knocking around in 1992?

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 06:19:17 PM
The show should pick a tone and stick to it.

You mean like it has literally never done in its 50-odd year history?
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JamesC

#28
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 02 January, 2017, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 06:19:17 PM
The show should pick a tone and stick to it.

You mean like it has literally never done in its 50-odd year history?

I'd say each multi-part storyline would have a pretty consistent tone back in the old days, and the best of the Nu-Who stories maintain a consistent tone throughout the episode.

Leigh S

Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 10:58:24 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 02 January, 2017, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: JamesC on 02 January, 2017, 06:19:17 PM
The show should pick a tone and stick to it.

You mean like it has literally never done in its 50-odd year history?

I'd say each multi-part storyline would have a pretty consistent tone back in the old days, and the best of the Nu-Who stories maintain a consistent tone throughout the episode.

I don't think the show attempting to do romance/comedy/drama is a problem - as Jim says, it has always done that. I think the tonal problem is that it wants to be taken much more seriously than the old series (exploring the Doctor's inner world and presenting "real" companions with real world problems and proper reactions and emotions to their travels) while also wanting to be much sillier and illogical/fantastical ("The moon is an egg!", "reboot the Universe by remembering me" etc.).  I think it is the stretch at both ends beyond what the old show did, which had a fairly consistent "tone" in the sense it had barriers it didn't cross (all fantastical things are ultimately science based for example).  This is not a new problem for Nu Who though