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Are there any really bad 2000ad strips?

Started by marko10174, 18 March, 2017, 04:23:29 PM

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Tony Angelino

I read part of a Garth Ennis strip that was reprinted in the Mega Collection. The one set in Ireland with the potato guns/spud guns. Awful. Words cannot describe the awfulness.

Despite regular reprints of his work in the Mega Collection I stuck with it until Sleaze and Ryder which there was no reason to reprint. 

I think he's very interesting to listen to in interview but in terms of Dredd he was the wrong choice.

Frank

Quote from: Tony Angelino on 21 March, 2017, 06:42:27 PM
... in terms of Dredd (Garth Ennis) was the wrong choice


Tharg's Talent Pool, 1990:

Grant Morrison
Mark Millar
Pete Milligan
Alan Grant
John Smith
Pat Mills
Alan McKenzie
Hillary Robinson
Mike Fleischer
John Brosnan
Dave Gibbons
Tise Vahimagi
Steve MacManus
Tom Tully
Gerry Finley-Day
Kelvin Gosnell
Steve White
Paul Neary
Peter Hogan
Ian Edginton
Warren Ellis
Tony Skinner
James Robinson
Steve Parkhouse
Alan Martin
D'Israeli
Julie Hollings
Charles Shaar Murray
Igor Goldkind
Alan Hebden
Jamie Delano
Neil Gaiman
Alan Moore


I suppose Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning were knocking about Marvel UK, and Simon Furman too - Si Spencer and Jon Beeston at Deadline would have been bigger punts than Ennis.  After that, you're looking at US or European creators who have never shown any sign of wanting to work for Tharg (or take the pay cut that entails).

Maybe pre-fame/drugs/baldness Morrison might have done a passable Wagner/Grant pastiche (for a wee while) but, of that list, Garth Ennis* is the only person I've ever heard say they'd read the comic, enjoyed the stories, or knew the characters. I'd say he was clearly the best choice - it just didn't work out.


* John Smith is a genuine fan, but his work rate suggests he's not the choice for a 52 episodes per year gig

Tony Angelino

Fair enough. I don't know who would have been the best choice but I still wouldn't say Garth was an option either. The Marvel UK guys would maybe have been the best option.

UK comics were in a very bad state at that time with the drain to DC Comics.  I get the feeling IPC, or Fleetway, just didn't have any back up plan regarding their creators.


TordelBack

Quote from: Tony Angelino on 21 March, 2017, 06:42:27 PM
I read part of a Garth Ennis strip that was reprinted in the Mega Collection. The one set in Ireland with the potato guns/spud guns. Awful. Words cannot describe the awfulness.

That's an Ennis highpoint for me, very funny and not a little true to life.

Dark Jimbo

Quote from: Tony Angelino on 21 March, 2017, 06:42:27 PM
I read part of a Garth Ennis strip that was reprinted in the Mega Collection. The one set in Ireland with the potato guns/spud guns. Awful. Words cannot describe the awfulness.

Whaaaaat? Fair enough if it isn't your cup of tea but that seems overly harsh on one of the best post-Necroplois stories. The spud-guns are silly, yes, but a) they're very funny and b) in the context of the story they're meant to be a bit stupid and stereotypical.

It's a story that in no way approaches the nadir of the Dredd strip. It trumps anything Millar or Morrison ever wrote, for starters, though that isn't saying much...!
@jamesfeistdraws

JayzusB.Christ

Quote from: TordelBack on 21 March, 2017, 09:08:27 PM


That's an Ennis highpoint for me, very funny and not a little true to life.

FAKE NEWS. Sad.

No, you're right of course. I hated it at the time but have warmed to it since. Still got Dredd's character wrong though.  And it kills me to see those giant sea muties singing 'A-Dredd, a-Dredd oh' at the end, when it quite clearly should have been 'Goodbye, goodbye, Joe.'
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

WhizzBang

For what it's worth, I only encountered Ennis/Morrison/Millar stuff when I reached them in the Case Files and the stuff by Ennis is far preferable than the Morrison/Millar stuff. Some of the Ennis stories are very enjoyable such as Raider and Death Aid.

Tony Angelino

Garth obviously has his fans and I shall not say anything further (other than I don't enjoy his stuff). I like listening to him get interviewed as he has a lot to say.

Grant Morrison. Zenith Phase One was fantastic and was a real boost to 2000AD just when it needed it. It was diminishing returns after that as I don't think the remaining 'phases' lived up to the first one (although I still enjoyed them and bought the hardbacks that Rebellion published in the last few years). In he 1980's (maybe 90's) on the strength of his first Zenith I started to follow his US stuff like Doom Patrol and Animal Man. Best thing about those were the Bolland covers on Animal Man. I've never understood his popularity since or why some people consider him a genius.

Mark Millar didn't do anything of merit for 2000AD as far as I'm aware.

Frank

Quote from: Tony Angelino on 21 March, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
Fair enough. I don't know who would have been the best choice but I still wouldn't say Garth was an option either. The Marvel UK guys would maybe have been the best option. UK comics were in a very bad state at that time with the drain to DC Comics.  I get the feeling IPC, or Fleetway, just didn't have any back up plan regarding their creators.

True, but you can't just magic good writers out of thin air. Wagner, Grant & Mills were writing 50% of IPC's output - under normal circumstances, Milligan, Morrison and Smith would have been their replacements.

None of them were great Dredd writers, though, so you'd still have that problem. If you fancy seeing how well the Marvel UK gang would have done on Dredd, the 1992 Dredd Yearbook is almost all Marvel alumni. Furman's two Dredds are wonky and Abnett's is awful*.

Ennis's lengthier work - Death Aid, Justice 1, The Marshal, and Raider - is as good as anything the non-Wagners have created. He did some great one-offs (A,B or C Warrior, First Of The Many, Return Of The King), but he clearly couldn't generate enough ideas for single issue stories.

If he'd concentrated on longer arcs, I think his time on Dredd would have worked out very differently.


* Abnett's other Dredd strips (Rad Blood, CHAMP, and Parts Exchange) are just middling. Insurrection and Lawless demonstrate he's learned to do Dreddworld, so maybe he'll have another shot at the main strip, some day

O Lucky Stevie!

Warren Ellis was also offered a Dredd gig around at this time – which he promptly refused despite being a long –time reader & a fan (cf young Master Warren's letters to the Nerve Centre) because he felt that he could not do Old Stoney Face (ahem) justice.
"We'll send all these nasty words to Aunt Jane. Don't you think that would be fun?"

Tjm86

Quote from: Tony Angelino on 21 March, 2017, 10:30:34 PM

Mark Millar didn't do anything of merit for 2000AD as far as I'm aware.

To me that's a bit like saying Margaret Thatcher didn't really help the mining industry in the eighties.

Witness for the prosecution:  the Sam Slade marrying Cutie storyline.

JayzusB.Christ

Quote from: Frank on 21 March, 2017, 10:54:01 PM

Ennis's lengthier work - Death Aid, Justice 1, The Marshal, and Raider - is as good as anything the non-Wagners have created. He did some great one-offs (A,B or C Warrior, First Of The Many, Return Of The King), but he clearly couldn't generate enough ideas for single issue stories.


Now, me, I didn't like any of those - Death Aid had some fairly ridiculous plot holes, for example, and Return of the King seemed to completely ignore Dredd's character development during Necropolis ('The Law is never wrong, Hershey' - don't you remember why you left the city, Joey boy?).
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

The Corinthian

Quote from: Frank on 21 March, 2017, 08:18:52 PMMaybe pre-fame/drugs/baldness Morrison might have done a passable Wagner/Grant pastiche (for a wee while)
But it's clear both from interviews and the Dredd work that he did turn in that he didn't really understand or like Dredd. 'Inferno' is the closest he gets to a Wagner/Grant pastiche and it's desperately insipid.

TordelBack

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 22 March, 2017, 08:02:09 AM
Quote from: Frank on 21 March, 2017, 10:54:01 PM

Ennis's lengthier work - Death Aid, Justice 1, The Marshal, and Raider - is as good as anything the non-Wagners have created. He did some great one-offs (A,B or C Warrior, First Of The Many, Return Of The King), but he clearly couldn't generate enough ideas for single issue stories.

Now, me, I didn't like any of those - Death Aid had some fairly ridiculous plot holes, for example, and Return of the King seemed to completely ignore Dredd's character development during Necropolis ('The Law is never wrong, Hershey' - don't you remember why you left the city, Joey boy?).


Really disliked Death Aid, some wonderfully atmospheric art was by far the best thing about Justice One, but I do rather like Return of the King. Still reckon Monkey on My Back was Ennis' best work on the character, but overall his tenure was very far from the worst.


Dog Deever

I'm the guy who quite liked Bison, as it goes. No... really.
Just a little rough and tumble, Judge man.