The Political Thread

[Frank]

I also find it hilarious that certain people are ripping into any Labour MP who dare say something against old Jezza, especially after how many times he voted against his own party!

This. Very much this. You either think Corbyn was a treacherous snake for voting against the party leadership for three decades or you think every MP should be allowed to vote with their conscience. Can't have both.

Also, the vote doesn't really matter. The handful of Tornados the UK can muster aren't going to make any practical difference to the outcome, especially as the US doesn't even really seem to be trying to topple ISIS. The vote's purpose is entirely symbolic, political, and cynical.

[Professor Bear]

Yeah, the online Corbynites are sometimes a bit of an enigma.  I've encountered a few of the good ones via The Twitter, but it's otherwise a puzzler how so many bullies end up supporting a vegetarian pacifist who hangs out with Billy Bragg, never mind why they think online abuse will in any way be helpful to their cause - especially at the moment, when the sad tale of Elliott Johnson is so prominently in the news.

If that's the way forward then they should've deselected Jezza ages ago as he wasn't part of the way the party was.

That's moving the goalposts quite a bit, as we're talking about deselecting MPs who have repeatedly worked against the interests of the party, their constituents and the electorate in direct collusion with the party's enemies in the media and on the opposing benches, and not MPs who vote how they see fit as you seem to be suggesting.

It would be slightly hypocritical if he went this way.

Very true, which is why it's worth pointing out that only commentators have ever floated this as a possibility, usually while ignoring that Jezza was only ever a backbencher.  The fairest thing for him to do with rebel MPs would therefore be to remove them from the front benches and let them vote however they want, though I don't see many of these valiant men and women of conscience and principle lining up for that, oddly enough.

It's good to see you arguing on behalf of the Blairites, though, CF.

[IndigoPrime]

Also, the vote doesn't really matter.

It does in the sense the government simply doesn't have the numbers. Even with the DUP and Lib-Dems, it might still be a fight without some Labour rebels.

The handful of Tornados the UK can muster aren't going to make any practical difference to the outcome

Which outcome? The one where the situation in Syria doesn't change, or the one in which direct action from the UK is used as the catalyst for a Paris-like terrorist attack in the UK?

Scolaighe Ó'Bear: agreed. All of it.

[Steve Green]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/01/cameron-accuses-corbyn-of-being-terrorist-sympathiser

[ZenArcade]

Gotta admit the terrorist sympathisers comment is a new low in this abysmal debate. The media and politicians leave me near speechless at times such as this; but then I guess that's what they want. And they talk of disconnect! Z

[Steve Green]

Sky are already in Call of Duty mode, racking up what missiles/planes/aircraft carriers are on offer...

[The Legendary Shark]

You know, we manufacture those, by the way...

[Professor Bear]

Even the Tories don't have a full house in favor of bombing, but apparantly every last one of the Lib Dems are for it.  They're not done with being Cameron's lapdogs just yet, it would seem.

[GordonR]

Even the Tories don't have a full house in favor of bombing, but apparantly every last one of the Lib Dems are for it.  They're not done with being Cameron's lapdogs just yet, it would seem.

Charles Kennedy will be turning in his grave. He and Alex Salmond were the only two Westminster party leaders to oppose the invasion of Iraq.

[IndigoPrime]

Farron has been a crushing disappointment from the start. It's VERY clear he sees the future of his party as somehow curbing the worst excesses of the Conservatives, which is truly crazy. Perhaps he's forgotten what happened to his party the last time it tried that.

As for Syria, the stage is set.

If the vote is lost, Cameron will brand Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser again, and everything bad, ever, will be ALL CORBYN'S FAULT.

If the vote is won and it all goes well, Cameron will be THE HERO, but Corbyn will be the EVIL COMMIE who nearly stopped heroism and amazingness.

If everything goes tits-up, the press has already started arguing this will be ALL CORBYN'S FAULT.

If a Paris-style attack happens here, in response to bombing, that will presumably be ALL CORBYN'S FAULT.

Because Corbyn, with perhaps 50 rebel Labour MPs that he refuses to control, COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS. No-one else could have stopped this. You know, like David 'I WANT TO BOMB SOMEONE' Cameron. There is NO WAY WHATSOEVER that Cameron could have stopped this happening. Apart from, you know, not making the policy, having the vote, and luring dipshit Labour MPs towards the flame.

[The Legendary Shark]

So, Jeremy Corbyn will allow Labour MPs to vote with their conscience on the plan to begin bombing ISIL in Syria. All very nice but MPs aren't supposed to vote with or against their own consciences - they're supposed to represent the conscience and will of their constituents.
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I hope everyone here is going to write to their MP and tell them how to vote.
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Qui tacet consentire videtur (he who is silent is taken to agree).

[The Legendary Shark]

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campaigns/email-mp-syria-airstrikes



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[sheridan]

Labour's main problem appears to be a complete lack of presentation skill.

I would argue that the complete dissolution of even the remotest pretense of impartiality in the media during the GE has simply carried over into the business-as-usual period between elections.  As a result, it doesn't matter what Labour do, they're going to get it in the neck anyway.

I'm not entirely sure what presentation skills the current crop of Labour MPs have, largely because of the skewed reporting we get.  As someone else pointed out, when a Tory MP can directly quote Nazi slogans as policy shortly after visiting Auschwitz without this being highlighted in the mainstream press then you know the dialogue isn't being fairly reported.

[sheridan]

I can equally claim that "potential" Labour voters want our soldiers to take ballet lessons and prance into battle waving a sparkly wand in order to win ISIS over with The Power Of Love, but no-one can speak with certainty for the silent majority - the last election proved that. 

Ah, but which version?  The Frankie Goes to Hollywood song, the Huey Lewis and the News song or the Jennifer Rush song?  There are actually a lot of other songs that go by the same title, but I had to narrow down the options somewhat...

[Professor Bear]

The ACTUAL Power Of Love bequeathed to us by a benevolent God.

I see the Blairites are in the news again, explaining how Corbyn supporters have invented this new thing called "abusive correspondence", and how only Blairites have been the recipients of it.  I now choose to believe that their political strategy is derived from a horrible misunderstanding that came about when one of them misread the famous slogan as "everybody loves a WHINER."