Empire Gives The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug FIVE Stars!

[Richmond Clements]

I worry for the inclusion of further (actual) made-up bullshit in the sequel

As opposed to Tolkien's made up bullshit..?
I really do not get the reverence here. The Hobbit is a pretty good book, but the LotR books are terribly written, rambling, boring tomes that were one of the very rare cases of a book being improved on in the movie version.

[TordelBack]

...the LotR books are terribly written, rambling, boring tomes that were one of the very rare cases of a book being improved on in the movie version.

I understand that taste is a personal thing (especially for creative types), and being popular is not necessarily an indication of quality (otherwise Dan Brown and Stephanie Meyer would be Nobel laureats), but Tolkien's work has been extremely popular for more than half a century now - in the top 5 of most Books of the 20th C lists for example -  so I suspect that while long they aren't intrinsically boring.  Tolkien's not the best prose writer by any means, but the depth of realisation of the world and the straightforward themes both mythic and homely are compelling.

[Jim_Campbell]

As opposed to Tolkien's made up bullshit..?
I really do not get the reverence here. The Hobbit is a pretty good book, but the LotR books are terribly written, rambling, boring tomes that were one of the very rare cases of a book being improved on in the movie version.

It's hard to believe but Usenet was still a thing back when the LotR films came out, and there was a significant chunk of posters on the Tolkien newsgroups who were vehemently anti-film in principle. The ensuing three-year flamewar was hilariously derailed when one of the anti-film crowd posted a dissection of Return of the King which was utterly derailed when his scathing appraisal of the death of Denethor was pointed out to be a literal depiction of what was in the book...

Cheers

Jim

[Jim_Campbell]

Tolkien's not the best prose writer by any means, but the depth of realisation of the world and the straightforward themes both mythic and homely are compelling.

I disagree: I think much of the time when the LotR trilogy shines, it's when it uses Tolkien's words directly and is at its most cringeworthy when Walsh and Boyens attempt something more 'accessible'.

Cheers

Jim

[TordelBack]

I disagree: I think much of the time when the LotR trilogy shines, it's when it uses Tolkien's words directly and is at its most cringeworthy when Walsh and Boyens attempt something more 'accessible'.

Absolutely, and one of the most remarkable things about the LotR films is just how much of Tolkien's dialogue and even verbatim description they manage to get in there, even when they have to move it about and swap the speaker to do so. As I know I've mentioned more than once, the scene during the fall of Minas Tirith where Gandalf comforts Pippin with a recitation of Frodo's dream in Tom Bombadil's house is a magnificent example of pragmatic reverence for and confidence in the source material.

In saying 'Tolkien isn't the best prose writer', I didn't mean to imply I thought he was bad, or that the books are badly written: rather that that the huge popularity of the works doesn't depend on some transcendant skill in this department.

EDIT: I like the books and the films for essentially the same reason: I like to be in Middle Earth, to explore it and learn more about it, its people and their struggles.  Both media offer that possibility in different ways.

[CrazyFoxMachine]

I like to be in Middle Earth, to explore it and learn more about it, its people and their struggles.  Both media offer that possibility in different ways.

You sound liked you're destined to be playing Lord of the Rings Online

[TordelBack]

You sound liked you're destined to be playing Lord of the Rings Online

Heh!

While I like a good RPG I've never enjoyed any LotR-based games I've tried, with the exception of the frustrating-yet-rewarding Hobbit text-adventure for the Spectrum.  This includes MERP and various board games I've played over the years. I think there's a disconnect between game mechanics in general and the way things work in the book.  Hypothetical example: Anduril isn't a +3 Great Sword with Command Undead and a +20% Leadership Bonus, it's the sword the wielding of which confirms Aragorn as heir to his bloodline and rightful King of Men.  I appreciate this isn't how every game works under the hood, but once you start breaking things down into damage-dealing and magic-use, something gets lost.

Or maybe I just like being told the story rather than participating in it.

That said, I do rather fancy playing Cubicle 7's The One Ring: Over the Edge of the Wild.  It looks like a lovingly designed thing.  Oh, and there's a rumour Santa may be bringing The Boy a copy of Lego LotR for the Wii, and I'm quite looking forward to that

[blackmocco]

It's hard to take any review that has something positive to say about Jackson's remake of Kong seriously. The commercials for this alone make me want to hibernate.

[Mabs]

It's hard to take any review that has something positive to say about Jackson's remake of Kong seriously. The commercials for this alone make me want to hibernate.

I really enjoyed Jackson's King Kong, although it was a tad too long. The middle section with the whole Skull Island incident, was great fun.

[blackmocco]

It's hard to take any review that has something positive to say about Jackson's remake of Kong seriously. The commercials for this alone make me want to hibernate.

I really enjoyed Jackson's King Kong, although it was a tad too long. The middle section with the whole Skull Island incident, was great fun.

Ugh. We'll have to agree to disagree, Mabs. The original KK's one of my favorite movies so s'pose I'm always going to be a bit biased. For what it's worth, I was very excited to go see it as I thought it could have been fantastic but it's so bloated and overworked.

[Mabs]

It's hard to take any review that has something positive to say about Jackson's remake of Kong seriously. The commercials for this alone make me want to hibernate.

I really enjoyed Jackson's King Kong, although it was a tad too long. The middle section with the whole Skull Island incident, was great fun.

Ugh. We'll have to agree to disagree, Mabs. The original KK's one of my favorite movies so s'pose I'm always going to be a bit biased. For what it's worth, I was very excited to go see it as I thought it could have been fantastic but it's so bloated and overworked.

I liked it even as a fan of the original! 

Peter Jackson also worshipped the original film and it was always his dream to do a remake. Well as remakes of the original go, it is the best of the bunch. You could see Jackson was trying to be as respectful to the 1933 film as he could, even adding scenes such as the spider pit  (which is one of my favourite moments) that was a deleted or lost scene from the first film. The CGI was also very well done esp. for Kong and the V-Rex's (although very poor in a few instances such as the Diplodocus stampede). But as you say, it was far too bloated. That for me was the only down point.

[Richmond Clements]

Any movie that features a giant gorilla kicking a dinosaur in the face cannot possibly be described as bad.

[Skullmo]

...the LotR books are terribly written, rambling, boring tomes that were one of the very rare cases of a book being improved on in the movie version.

I understand that taste is a personal thing

Sometimes people just have none of it.

[Richmond Clements]

...the LotR books are terribly written, rambling, boring tomes that were one of the very rare cases of a book being improved on in the movie version.

I understand that taste is a personal thing

Sometimes people just have none of it.

Steady on - TB is allowed to be wrong.

[blackmocco]

Any movie that features a giant gorilla kicking a dinosaur in the face cannot possibly be described as bad.

Normally I'd agree. However, as it takes about seven hours of boring, trite, badly-written drivel to get to that point it lessened the impact for me. Kong takes on three dinosaurs and it still can't compare with the original's fight scene. A good hour could have been trimmed from it and it would have been an infinitely better movie.