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dredd's world leaning towards movie version?

Started by mogzilla, 14 August, 2012, 08:01:56 AM

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mogzilla

just  a passing thought, but has day of chaos been a "reeboot" (sort of) or dredd's world? making it tie in with the overwhelmed gritty feel of the film? a great deal of the citizenship is dead the judges are severley depleted the infrastructure of mega city one is buggered so all the convienient tech has been removed from the picture such as psu and the academy as well .
   i also noticed dredd took his massive pads off to get his jetpack on and does anyone else think the space judges pauldrons look familiar? smaller embossed eagle? maybe theres going to be a shift to the new/old smaller styling???

 
 

Spaceghost

This occured to me too. I get the feeling that the film has influenced the comic in that respect. The Judges being over-run and barely able to cope, as they are in the film, has never really happened before in the comic.

I doubt that we'll see a documented, scripted change of uniform to more closely resemble the film version but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a more subtle, organic shift as individual artists gradually make small changes in the way they portray Dredd and the Meg, influenced by the film designs.

I'd welcome this to a degree as I've come to prefer the film uniform over the comic one. Those big shoulder pads and a lack of any sort of useful body armour are beginning to look a bit dated and impractical to me now.
Raised in the wild by sarcastic wolves.

Previously known as L*e B*tes. Sshhh, going undercover...

James Stacey

Wasn't it worked out somewhere that percentage wise many more cits than judges died so the justice department should be in a better position to handle the new slimmed down Meg

TordelBack

#3
Quote from: James Stacey on 14 August, 2012, 08:44:42 AM
Wasn't it worked out somewhere that percentage wise many more cits than judges died so the justice department should be in a better position to handle the new slimmed down Meg

Indeed.  Between 80-85% (350 million of an estimated 400 million+) of the citizens died, as against 60% of Justice Dept (numbers from The Days After, Prog 1789).  However, the machinery of PSU is effectively gone, along with what respect there was for the judges.  Rather than a placid-if-nuts citizenry interspersed with violent crazies and local rebelliousness the Judges now face citywide anarchy. 

Most critically, only 600 cadets survived, and presumably precious few of those were seniors (who took the brunt of the rearguard action in the evacuation of the Academy) meaning there's no mechanism for replacement of casualties.  The casualty rates for judges given in The Graveyard Shift (Casefiles 7) illustrate the scale of the problem. 

Between 2100 and 0300 hours 7 street judges are listed as having lost their lives, with a further 25 hospitalisations.  That's about 1.25 an hour.  Assuming the graveyard shift (indicated as 2100 to 0500) is significantly worse than the other 16 hours, and also that this is an average night (and I think that's the whole point of that story) lets say the general casualty rate was 1 judge an hour for the day shift and even less for the latter part of the nightshift (0300-0500), giving a conservative total of 25 dead judges a day.  Assume some debilitating injuries and a trickle of long-walks, Titan trips and Academy/Auxiliary redeployments, and you lose about 10,000 street judges a year. 

Academy training generally takes 15 years.  So that's 150,000 cadets at any one time, just to keep street judges numbers constant back in 2107, and that's without considering periodic disasters.  However, what's that failure/drop out rate?  Will we be very optimistic and say 25% make it to full eagle?  (I'd bet it's more like 1 in 10, but assuming the largest losses are in the first half of the programme the numbers should trend lower overall).  So you needed maybe 600,000 total cadets in 2107 to ensure a consistent replacement number of 10,000 successful graduations per year. 

Reduce that number by 80% to reflect the vastly depleted population of 2134 and a reduced judge force that only needs 2000 new street graduations per year, or about 5 or 6 a day. That requires an Academy of 120,000 kids from 5 to 20. They have 600, most presumably pre-teens, and equally likely to include a mix of non-street types.     

That's a bad place to be.


Spaceghost

Quote from: TordelBack on 14 August, 2012, 10:04:58 AM
Quote from: James Stacey on 14 August, 2012, 08:44:42 AM
Wasn't it worked out somewhere that percentage wise many more cits than judges died so the justice department should be in a better position to handle the new slimmed down Meg

Indeed.  Between 80-85% (350 million of an estimated 400 million+) of the citizens died, as against 60% of Justice Dept (numbers from The Days After, Prog 1789).  However, the machinery of PSU is effectively gone, along with what respect there was for the judges.  Rather than a placid-if-nuts citizenry interspersed with violent crazies and local rebelliousness the Judges now face citywide anarchy. 

Most critically, only 600 cadets survived, and presumably precious few of those were seniors (who took the brunt of the rearguard action in the evacuation of the Academy) meaning there's no mechanism for replacement of casualties.  The casualty rates for judges given in The Graveyard Shift (Casefiles 7) illustrate the scale of the problem. 

Between 2100 and 0300 hours 7 street judges are listed as having lost their lives, with a further 25 hospitalisations.  That's about 1.25 an hour.  Assuming the graveyard shift (indicated as 2100 to 0500) is significantly worse than the other 16 hours, and also that this is an average night (and I think that's the whole point of that story) lets say the general casualty rate was 1 judge an hour for the day shift and even less for the latter part of the nightshift (0300-0500), giving a conservative total of 25 dead judges a day.  Assume some debilitating injuries and a trickle of long-walks, Titan trips and Academy/Auxiliary redeployments, and you lose about 10,000 street judges a year. 

Academy training generally takes 15 years.  So that's 150,000 cadets at any one time, just to keep street judges numbers constant back in 2107, and that's without considering periodic disasters.  However, what's that failure/drop out rate?  Will we be very optimistic and say 25% make it to full eagle?  (I'd bet it's more like 1 in 10, but assuming the largest losses are in the first half of the programme the numbers should trend lower overall).  So you needed maybe 600,000 total cadets in 2107 to ensure a consistent replacement number of 10,000 successful graduations per year. 

Reduce that number by 80% to reflect the vastly depleted population of 2134 and a reduced judge force that only needs 2000 new street graduations per year, or about 5 or 6 a day. That requires an Academy of 120,000 kids from 5 to 20. They have 600, most presumably pre-teens, and equally likely to include a mix of non-street types.     

That's a bad place to be.

And that, my friends, is science.

Hats off to you Tordelback for that in depth analysis into just how screwed Justice Dept. really is.
Raised in the wild by sarcastic wolves.

Previously known as L*e B*tes. Sshhh, going undercover...

The Adventurer

A serial sci-fi comic fudging its inconsitant population and demographic numbers? THE HELL YOU SAY?!

THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

Bolt-01

Tord, I work in Stats, and I'm impressed. You the Nerd!

QuickQuag

So... what's it to be, clones, robots or imports?
The views above are entirely my own. And there's the problem.

Spaceghost

Raised in the wild by sarcastic wolves.

Previously known as L*e B*tes. Sshhh, going undercover...

Dash Decent

Quote from: QuickQuag on 16 August, 2012, 10:37:13 AM
So... what's it to be, clones, robots or imports?

That's one picket line I have no intention of crossing -

JUDGES LOCAL #8 SAYS NO TO FOREIGN JUDGES!
DEMAND YOUR RIGHTS CITIZEN.  INSIST ON BEING
BEATEN ONLY BY AMERICAN JUDGES.
- By Appointment -
Hero to Michael Carroll

"... rank amateurism and bad jokes." - JohnW.

WhitBloke

Me, I'd love to see a story that has some of those slackers dragged out of their cosy little Vaults cribs and put back on the street.  Umpty addiction?  Riot duties, take it out on the punks.  Degenerative flesh-wasting bug with six hours left to live?  Holocaust Squad, move!  Jigsaw Disease?  Assassination duties, East-Meg Two, they'll never find enough of you to pin it on us.

As for the veering towards the movie look, I too was a little worried when in the recent Debris story Uncle Joe seemed to ditch the pads for an all-black approach to poncing about in a city-block run by a mad bitch and the only back-up he had was an otherwise capable supporting character who has deep-rooted misgivings regarding a life as a judge....
So this is der place then, Johnny?

vzzbux

How weird. My thoughts are gearing towards this thread in the latest prog thread.
I was about to embark on working out the losses of the academy and how it would effect future full eagles and Tord has done it all for me and better than I could ever have expressed my thoughts.

Handfulls of cadets may have been out on assignment, cursed earth, overseas as well as full eagle judges. With this you have to account for cits out of the city as well (but I doubt they would want to return), but with the virus reported world wide their fates may be unknown.
The world being effected I doubt there would be much help from outside authorities.

I would also go for leniency for minor fuck ups among cadets that could be addressed with back squadding and with the current Dolman situation arising returning or inviting other ex cadets/Judges (depending on the reason of dismissal) back into the system after extra training to make sure they are street worthy. With major shifts in peoples lives some can re-evaluate their situation and DoC would be one of these.




V
Drokking since 1972

Peace is a lie, there's only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.

Frank

Quote from: TordelBack on 14 August, 2012, 10:04:58 AM
Between 80-85% (350 million of an estimated 400 million+) of the citizens died, as against 60% of Justice Dept (numbers from The Days After, Prog 1789).  However, the machinery of PSU is effectively gone, along with what respect there was for the judges.  Rather than a placid-if-nuts citizenry interspersed with violent crazies and local rebelliousness the Judges now face citywide anarchy. 

Most critically, only 600 cadets survived, and presumably precious few of those were seniors (who took the brunt of the rearguard action in the evacuation of the Academy) meaning there's no mechanism for replacement of casualties.  The casualty rates for judges given in The Graveyard Shift (Casefiles 7) illustrate the scale of the problem. 

Between 2100 and 0300 hours 7 street judges are listed as having lost their lives, with a further 25 hospitalisations.  That's about 1.25 an hour.  Assuming the graveyard shift (indicated as 2100 to 0500) is significantly worse than the other 16 hours, and also that this is an average night (and I think that's the whole point of that story) lets say the general casualty rate was 1 judge an hour for the day shift and even less for the latter part of the nightshift (0300-0500), giving a conservative total of 25 dead judges a day.  Assume some debilitating injuries and a trickle of long-walks, Titan trips and Academy/Auxiliary redeployments, and you lose about 10,000 street judges a year. 

Academy training generally takes 15 years.  So that's 150,000 cadets at any one time, just to keep street judges numbers constant back in 2107, and that's without considering periodic disasters.  However, what's that failure/drop out rate?  Will we be very optimistic and say 25% make it to full eagle?  (I'd bet it's more like 1 in 10, but assuming the largest losses are in the first half of the programme the numbers should trend lower overall).  So you needed maybe 600,000 total cadets in 2107 to ensure a consistent replacement number of 10,000 successful graduations per year. 

Reduce that number by 80% to reflect the vastly depleted population of 2134 and a reduced judge force that only needs 2000 new street graduations per year, or about 5 or 6 a day. That requires an Academy of 120,000 kids from 5 to 20. They have 600, most presumably pre-teens, and equally likely to include a mix of non-street types.


Y-y-you're scaring me, Tordelback. Prog 522's So You Want To Be A Judge? states the rate of attrition/natural wastage among undergraduates from the Academy thus: "One in seven cadets will die in training. Another four in seven will be weeded out before graduation".

Of course, Tutor Mullaney had a vested interest in making the decision to enrol your offspring as a cadet seem as daunting as possible. "If, after what you've heard, you decide you've made a mistake in coming here ... you may leave- upon payment of a hundred cred fine at the door.

Bat King

There will likely be quite a few orphans. Stick them in the Academy, stored singer of the recruitment issues.
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JOE SOAP

I'd always assumed that those Judges who'd failed the street-test got jobs in admin, PSU, became medics or took other sundry jobs in Justice Dept.