No Who series in 2016, and Moffat quits to be replaced by Chris Chibnall

[Greg M.]

Chibnall's Whos have indeed been uniformly awful - well, mediocre-to-awful -so the one hope is that he'll turn out to be a good judge of other people's material. I'm not sure why the person in charge of modern Who has to actually write for the series at all - in many ways, it'd be better if he or she didn't. After all, the traditional system of producer / script editor still allowed, say, the much-revered Philip Hinchcliffe to articulate a clear vision for the show.

[Colin YNWA]

Okay just looked at this track record (well in the lazy Wikipedia way). Couple of episodes of Life on Mars (=good), load of Torchwood (the little I saw = bad) some very medicore, but not actually the worst NuWho (=mah), Great Train Robbery (=good), Broadchurch I've not actually watched but my wife really likes (though wasn't the second series a bit dodge?) and it seems universally loved so I'll give that (=good). Then a load of stuff I'm not aware of, Law and Order UK???, So yeah more good than bad...

... which means nowt of course but leaves me with at least some confidence.

[IndigoPrime]

His Life on Mars episodes weren't the best of them. The problem will be if he wants to do what showrunners tend to do these days and write all of the key episodes. If not and if he takes a more traditional showrunner approach, editing scripts across a series to make it coherent, and also dialling down the WE ARE SO CLEVER aspect of the show as it currently stands, it could work; but I'm not hopeful. It kind of strikes me as reinforcing the rumours that the higher-ups at the BBC still hate this show, regardless of its importance to the corporation, and so want to slowly kill it.

[Andrew Brown]

No... Moffatt has written most of my favourite episodes of Nü Who, but has also been responsible for much of the fan-wankiest bollocks that has been to the detriment of the new series.

Spot on.

I don't get the negativity towards Chibnall: his best episodes ('42', 'Power of Three') have been solid Saturday evening family entertainment, and the rest have been, at worst, OK. Torchwood series 2 also underrated.

Doctor Who works best when it's populist - aimed at a mass audience of regular people, not just geeks (like me). We'll watch it anyway: we don't matter. And that's what Moffat has lost: I thought the last series was, with a couple of reservations, excellent. But my wife and kids lost interest during series 8 and weren't even watching: and that's no good.

Chibnall has proved he can do popular water-cooler entertainment with Broadchurch: and that's exactly what we need. And if he can get Moffat to chip in one or two episodes a year, even better.

Bit of a shame we have no episodes this year until Christmas, but then again, I remember the wilderness years when we were excited to get a 'Tardisode'...

[Colin YNWA]

If not and if he takes a more traditional showrunner approach, editing scripts across a series to make it coherent, and also dialling down the WE ARE SO CLEVER aspect of the show as it currently stands,

I deco think this would help. There was a definate period where for me the show forgot to be 45 minutes of great family entertainment ahead of the a super smart, look at me series long arc. That's not to say that being both is isn't the ideal  but it got the cart before the episode horse and I stopping lovin' it.

It kind of strikes me as reinforcing the rumours that the higher-ups at the BBC still hate this show, regardless of its importance to the corporation, and so want to slowly kill it.

A lot less sure about this. I mean firstly there's a serious big, 'why the fuck' all over this? Just 'cos a bunch of fans (I must admit I'm assuming) don't agree with how it's run, doesn't mean there's some sort of cabal at the beeb meeting in darkened rooms plotting the downfall of one of their most heavily marketed and lucrate shows. Especially at a time when having shows that make them profit (one assumes) and general critical approval is kinda important to an organisation under attack from all sorts of parties.

Secondly if there was such clandestine scheming they wouldn't be very good at it if their plans revolved around getting the creator of one of the most popular and critically acclaimed shows of the last 5 year's to run the show. Regardless of what we as individuals might think of the chap.

[Big_Dave]

doesn't mean there's some sort of cabal at the beeb meeting in darkened rooms plotting the downfall of one of their most heavily marketed and lucrate shows. Especially at a time when having shows that make them profit (one assumes) and general critical approval is kinda important to an organisation under attack from all sorts of parties.

dr who makes $$$
but costs $$$
& ratings aint great http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilmidgley/2015/10/17/doctor-who-ratings-are-awful-but-not-as-bad-as-these-4-reasons-why-the-bbc-wont-cancel-it/#590a247b411e

bbc can make $$$
without spending $$$
by letting netflix make it http://www.kasterborous.com/2015/04/might-doctor-survive-post-licence-fee-bbc/

[GordonR]

Is "let Netflx do it!" the new "you could fund it on Kickstarter!" fairly clueless solution to everything?

[TordelBack]

I'm afraid I'm no longer a fan of Dr Who: for all that I enjoy the odd episode and like Capaldi and Coleman, I can't seem to find enthusiasm to make regular time on a Saturday (or Christmas Day), and the kids aren't interested enough to force me to do so. And as a non-UK resident, tracking it down afterwards is at best arguably illegal, and worse, a chore.  I admiee the characters, settings and effects, but too many crappy nonsensical resolutions for too long have killed off my motivation to make the effort.

However.

I don't get the argument that foreign/merchandising revenues are no reason to keep the show going when less than 6 million (more than the population of my island) licence-paying Brits watch it. Surely all that money subsidises other parts of the BBC's output? Even if it's only break-even (which isn't my amateur impression), doesn't that mean Dr Who is effectively free?

[IndigoPrime]

Viewing figure articles are all over the place. It's amazing how few journalists seem to understand how many of these figures are arrived at (from a small number of 'recorded' properties), and that consolidated figures rarely include digital catch-up. We rarely watch Doctor Who live, because we have a baby, but we watch every episode. But because iPlayer's broadly ignored, that number often doesn't count. As I understand it, when every source of viewing is taken into account, Doctor Who has been essentially flat since the mid-point of the Tennant run. In TV terms, that's probably a good thing, given that audience figures in general tend to drop over time. (Note how Peep Show on C4 gradually transformed from a near disaster to a fairly solid player, despite its ratings almost never changing from the ~1m mark.)

And, yeah, I agree with Gordon about the Netflix thing. People forget that without the BBC, no-one gave a shit about Doctor Who. Politicians might bang on about how the corporation shouldn't make popular telly, but the BBC's remit is to in part serve up what others won't. Doctor Who might seem obvious now, but it was a risk at the time. The same is true for many things the BBC does. I don't see it surviving long term—it'll either become a subscription service (and therefore be increasingly forced towards popular shows and away from a wider remit) or a broadcaster of last resort—a kind of British PBS. In either case, we'll be all the worse for it but won't realise it until it's too late.

As for Chibnall, some good points here. I certainly won't stop watching, but I thought Torchwood was atrocious in all kinds of ways, and so would hope for something a lot better. It'll be interesting to see whether Moffat cuts ties entirely, like RTD, or if he still pens the odd episode.

[Pyroxian]

Is "let Netflx do it!" the new "you could fund it on Kickstarter!" fairly clueless solution to everything?

Ooh, but if Netflix do it, we could get a Dredd / Dr. Who crossover series. If Netflix did Dredd as well...

[Professor Bear]

It kind of strikes me as reinforcing the rumours that the higher-ups at the BBC still hate this show, regardless of its importance to the corporation, and so want to slowly kill it.

A lot less sure about this. I mean firstly there's a serious big, 'why the fuck' all over this? Just 'cos a bunch of fans (I must admit I'm assuming) don't agree with how it's run, doesn't mean there's some sort of cabal at the beeb meeting in darkened rooms plotting the downfall of one of their most heavily marketed and lucrate shows. Especially at a time when having shows that make them profit (one assumes) and general critical approval is kinda important to an organisation under attack from all sorts of parties.

You assume the BBC is run in a straightforward capitalist way unfettered by the class system and institutionalised incompetence.  I suggest you speak to some people who actually work there, as some of the firsthand stories I've heard are so unbelievable that you're better off hearing them yourself.

Dr Who was originally cancelled despite pulling in solid ratings against Corrie (relative to other BBC shows) and costing peanuts to make - licencing and merchandise revenue alone paid for the show many times over - but the then-current head of programming made no bones about the fact that he cancelled the show because he personally hated it and thought it was "low brow".  Its success or popularity was by-the-by, and the BBC cancel or renew shows all the time citing contradictory reasons for doing either.

[Magnetica]

Have to admit I thought the viewing figures these days did include IPlayer.  I would have thought it is much easier to track as well - surely just take a report off the server, compared to the traditional method (a box that notes what is being  watched in a small sample group who have agreed to take part).

[Big_Dave]

Is "let Netflx do it!" the new "you could fund it on Kickstarter!" fairly clueless solution to everything?

sorry george
netflix just example of
pay tv company - amazon hbo hulu

should have explained

[IndigoPrime]

Have to admit I thought the viewing figures these days did include IPlayer.  I would have thought it is much easier to track as well - surely just take a report off the server, compared to the traditional method (a box that notes what is being  watched in a small sample group who have agreed to take part).

Some viewing figures do. You just have to be careful of the spin an article is trying to do. If they're trying to slam Who, the iPlayer figures mysteriously disappear, replaced by the 'consolidated' ones that are air + PVR.

As for the BBC in general, Scolaighe Ó'Bear nails it. There's also the issue of individual station controllers wanting to stamp 'their' imprint on a channel. It's notable that Ideal was cancelled after its highest-rated series, having sold the show to more countries than previously, and having secured more guest stars than before. Notably, it wasn't one of then-controller Zai Bennett's shows—it made its debut before his arrival. He cleared the decks as rapidly as possible and then cleaned off (now being based at Sky Atlantic).

[Dandontdare]

It's notable that Ideal was cancelled after its highest-rated series, having sold the show to more countries than previously, and having secured more guest stars than before. Notably, it wasn't one of then-controller Zai Bennett's shows—it made its debut before his arrival. He cleared the decks as rapidly as possible and then cleaned off (now being based at Sky Atlantic).

Viewing figures don't necessarily mean quality - The latter seasons were a bit crap IMHO, they'd built up the viewing figures/sales based on the earlier seasons, but I gave up watching towards the end.

I've never understood "viewing figures" as a rationale for any BBC shows - They make sense on commercial TV because you're financing shows based on the number of people who are going to see the adverts, but they're pretty meaningless for the BBC - but they "need" something to measure, heaven forbid they just use experience and judgement.