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The Political Thread

Started by The Legendary Shark, 09 April, 2010, 03:59:03 PM

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Modern Panther

Stage two of "Operation: Eat Your Cereal"... explain to the electorate that the whole situation is far too complicated for them to understand, so they should probably do as they're told.

Stage 3...explain to the electorate that change is permanent and terrifying.

IndigoPrime

Given that I'm seeing people screaming that Turkey will be joining the EU soon and not understanding the difference between trade deficits and surpluses regarding physical goods and services...

TordelBack

#10142
S'not often that I take a swipe at Radio 4, which I love above all other broadcast media, but I caught a chunk of an interview on Today this morning, but didn't catch the names. The interviewer was asking for specifics on the 'red tape' that Leave-aligned businesses were objecting to. Working Time Directive and REACH (Chemicals Regulation), apparently. A brief attempt at asking what about these rules were the issue revealed 'flexibility in working hours* ' and 'restrictions on pesticides'. Any further attempts to ask what exactly this meant was met with, repeatedly, 'what people want is more information'. But none was forthcoming, and there it was left. Why didn't the interviewer push on with 'so what Leave businesses want is the ability to make people work whatever hours suit them and use whatever pesticides suit them'.  Isn't that the actual point? And isn't that the information people need? That EU regulation,such as it is, generally protects them? Very weak journalism.



By way of balance: extraordinary episode of Just a Minute last night, where Giles Brandreth and John Finnemore each did the full minute one after the other. Arsom.

*It was noted that many fields of work already 'enjoy' exemptions.

The Legendary Shark

Love Radio 4's entertainment output, despise its "journalism." Happy alternative; Radio 4 Extra!

I accidentally caught some Jeremy Vine on R2 the other day. His show should be re-titled Fearmongering in the Afternoon.
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ZenArcade

I've done an interview with the Guardian about the impact of an exit vote in Border areas in NI. I'll keep you all posted when it comes out. Z
Ed is dead, baby Ed is...Ed is dead

Dandontdare

#10145
R4, and the BBC in general, are tiptoeing around at the moment in fear for their continued existence, especially regarding the EU vote - if you ever look at the comments section on the BBC news website for any EU story, it is just chock-full of people frothing about "left wing anti-brexit bias" - they're probably paranoid about appearing to be pro-remain, but such a neutered and fearful broadcaster is never going to ask the tough questions.

Any comments on stories that are not about the referendum or immigrants are usually full of "why are we allowed to comment on this and not Europe/immigration",

(and I can't understand why just a Minute is still on the air - as a game to play, it loses it's appeal quickly, as an entertainment show it reached that point about 20 years ago IMO)

Quote from: ZenArcade on 31 May, 2016, 10:02:25 AM
I've done an interview with the Guardian about the impact of an exit vote in Border areas in NI. I'll keep you all posted when it comes out. Z

There was one  l week or two ago about border villages that used to be separated by checkpoints but now benefit from all kinds of cross-border trade and who are worried about whether the border barriers will come back up.

ZenArcade

Yep that was about Belcoo/Blacklion on the Fermanagh border. Z
Ed is dead, baby Ed is...Ed is dead

The Legendary Shark

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TordelBack

Quote from: Dandontdare on 31 May, 2016, 10:23:28 AM
(and I can't understand why just a Minute is still on the air - as a game to play, it loses it's appeal quickly, as an entertainment show it reached that point about 20 years ago IMO).

Seriously? I think it's still terrific, and I've been listening to it all my life - I ripped a few boxsets of CDs to my MP3 a few years back and seldom get tired of listening. Innocent fun, with no real topical satire to date it or distract from the verbal dexterity and flights of fancy. I will agree that the loss of some of the giants lessened it (Kenneth Williams, Peter Jones and the incomparable Clement Freud in particular), but there's plenty of new blood these days,  it's always fascinating to see comedy pros humbled by such an apparently simple task. It's great to see something endure, ans how Parsons keeps going is anyone's guess - he's nearly 95, and seemed to me to be an old man when I was a baby watching Sale of the Century!

But everything else in your post I agree with, DDD!

IndigoPrime

The BBC has a big, big problem with balance or at least being seen to be balanced. In some cases, balance just doesn't exist, and yet the BBC dutifully trots out climate-change deniers in articles about climate change, or anti-vaccination dolts in vaccination features, giving 'both sides of the argument' roughly even space. I'm firmly pro-BBC, but this is one of the organisation's deep problems from a news standpoint, and we're very much seeing it in the EU referendum.

I'm also seeing a strange tendency for it to more often fact check the remain camp's arguments than those of leave. That might be because the latter is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel, but this stuff needs addressing. (For my part, I think I'm done trying to reason with leave voters. They keep parroting the same few things, and when you present some sourced material, everything suddenly becomes a CONSPIRACY from the ESTABLISHMENT. Fundamentally, for the majority, it's clear this all really comes down to immigration and, more specifically, a kind of little-Englander xenophobia. At times, I actually feel quite sorry for people on the Brexit side who are trying to fashion reasoned arguments, because they're being drowned out by racist idiots, including those like Farage and Johnson at the very top.)

Old Tankie

Hi IndigoPrime.  My vote to leave the EU has got nothing to do with immigration but I am interested to know your views on the immigration policy of the EU, as it seems that the EU's immigration policy is exactly the same towards non-EU citizens as the Leave campaign views are on immigration to the UK.

TordelBack

In advance of Indigo answering, could I throw your question back at you there Tankie: how do you feel about England, Scotand, Wales and all of Ireland having an even looser mutual immigration policy than the EU? 

Old Tankie

'Morning TB, I would have no problem with that at all, with all the historical connections between those countries it would seem a logical thing to do.

With regards to immigration overall, I'm a realist, you are never going to control immigration completely in the modern world.

I got a leaflet from the Remain campaign the other day stating how proud they were that they've imposed strict restrictions on non-EU citizens wishing to come to the UK.  On that basis, if the Leave campaign's racist surely the Remain campaign is as well.

IndigoPrime

There's a difference between the Leave campaign's outright xenophobia/stoking the flames and the EU's stance on immigration. Leave's been practically frothing about Eastern Europeans and OH NO TURKEY, when the former's had little effect on the UK and the latter just isn't going to happen. It's not a points policy per se that I'm against (in a theoretical senseā€”I do, though, think it's a big mistake for the UK and one that will impact a significant number of people in ways Leave does not expect) but the nature in which this is all being served up by Farage and Boris. There's wilful obfuscation about different kinds of movements, a lack of admission about any benefits of immigration (i.e. we get in young labour to fill skills gaps and ship off old people to the EU), and a general nasty undercurrent of keeping out those bally foreigners.

It also appears to be working, if the Guardian's report today is anything to go by. Again, Leave leads the polls. (Perhaps it's a blip. I bloody hope so.)

On the British and Irish isles, it'll be interesting to see what would happen in event of Brexit. I suspect Scotland would be independent within a decade and probably an EU member. God knows what will happen in Ireland. Would these isles still all opt out of Schengen? Would Scotland even get such an opt-out? How would two EU borders within these isles affect immigration and trade?

Also, Tankie, I'm not applying the same label to everyone. But everyone I know with a 'real name' (i.e. not anonymised on a forum) who's voting to leave has stated immigration is the reason, and the one thing that overrides everything else, including any and all economic arguments. It's likely to be the subject that swings this, and I'm sure if Brexit happens it'll nonetheless come as a massive shock to people that cutting immigration from the EU will make fuck-all positive difference to the UK.

Old Tankie

Well my real name is Mike Davis, so, there you go, a real named person who is voting to leave the EU for other than immigration reasons.  And, if you want, I'll send you even more information on a PM.