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The Political Thread

Started by The Legendary Shark, 09 April, 2010, 03:59:03 PM

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Theblazeuk

Today I am going to indulge in some good old fashioned hide the daily mail and the sun in every shop I enter. Utter shit rags.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 18 April, 2017, 04:47:53 PM
Could have driven goodwill, and from a press standpoint would have been no worse then Wolmar getting a sad 3.67%.

I really don't think it would have been "no worse". Though I'm not sure how much worse it would have been. Again, damned either way.

TordelBack

Didn't May, this government, and most of the opposition, all campaign for Remain not even a year ago? And yet now it's only notional 'saboteurs' who question the wisdom of blindly charging into this pit. Absolutely bizarre - and dangerous - demagoguery.

IndigoPrime

Quote from: dweezil2 on 19 April, 2017, 09:33:33 AMIsn't that a scene from the movie V For Vendetta? If so, highly apt!
What's scary is how little I had to change the actual Daily Mail cover to make that image.

Quote from: NapalmKev on 19 April, 2017, 10:31:09 AMSeriously though, wouldn't it be hilarious if this backfired on the Tories and they end up losing! I'm optimistic enough (at the moment) that it could happen.
Unless the not-Tory parties can stop slapping each other, it probably won't happen. That said, if enough voters can swallow their pride and vote tactically, it's possible we could at least end up in a position where we have a minority Tory govt unable to do what it wants. (The likelihood of a Labour-led coalition seems beyond the realm of possibility, I suspect.)

Quote from: Theblazeuk on 19 April, 2017, 10:48:20 AMI really don't think it would have been "no worse". Though I'm not sure how much worse it would have been. Again, damned either way.
Perhaps, but then showcasing a willingness to cooperate – especially in the event of a seat the Tories themselves declined to stand at – would have been better than throwing a candidate to the wolves, and could have set up some goodwill. Our alternative is, what, waiting until Labour is strong enough to win alone, which it will now likely have to do with redrawn electoral boundaries and possibly without Scotland? When will that be? 2030s? Longer? But the numbers might be there for a non-Tory deal of some kind right now.

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 April, 2017, 10:59:22 AMDidn't May, this government, and most of the opposition, all campaign for Remain not even a year ago? And yet now it's only notional 'saboteurs' who question the wisdom of blindly charging into this pit. Absolutely bizarre - and dangerous - demagoguery.
She doesn't care. It's Trumpism, British style. Keep saying something long enough and people will believe you. She's also the kind of politician sho makes her mind up and then that's it.

Professor Bear

Quote from: NapalmKev on 19 April, 2017, 10:31:09 AMSeriously though, wouldn't it be hilarious if this backfired on the Tories and they end up losing! I'm optimistic enough (at the moment) that it could happen.

People vote for something the media didn't approve of?  Never happen.

Goaty

Shame as there's too many sheep in UK.

Goaty

So Theresa May in PMQs just defended the DM under the guise of defending a free press.

TordelBack

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 19 April, 2017, 11:10:18 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 19 April, 2017, 10:59:22 AMDidn't May, this government, and most of the opposition, all campaign for Remain not even a year ago? And yet now it's only notional 'saboteurs' who question the wisdom of blindly charging into this pit. Absolutely bizarre - and dangerous - demagoguery.
She doesn't care. It's Trumpism, British style. Keep saying something long enough and people will believe you. She's also the kind of politician sho makes her mind up and then that's it.

Silly me, I've just remembered that you were always at war with Eurasia.

Steve Green

Crush the Saboteurs isn't as snappy as Big Jobs.

Theblazeuk

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 19 April, 2017, 11:10:18 AM
Perhaps, but then showcasing a willingness to cooperate – especially in the event of a seat the Tories themselves declined to stand at – would have been better than throwing a candidate to the wolves, and could have set up some goodwill... But the numbers might be there for a non-Tory deal of some kind right now.

Indigo, I agree with you that I would have preferred they played it that way - it would certainly have been more grown-up! But every single thing Labour does is spun as the wrong thing. Acts of co-operation are labelled as surrender. And it's not just from opponents outside of Labour but also from within, where the tea party of people like Tom Watson undermine every attempt at reaching out to the effectively disenfranchised. A token, meaningless gesture is the least worst option from this standpoint. I don't agree but I can understand it.

And in any case the Lib Dems keep ruling out coalitions with Labour but remain ever open to the Tories . I think they get a surprisingly free ride on their own attitude towards Labour. And in their actual opposition to the Tories. They really squander their position as 3rd party.

IndigoPrime

Vince Cable isn't the Lib Dems, but I suspect you're right anyway. We now have the Greens and the SNP saying they're up for a grand coalition of some sort, so the ball's in Labour and LD courts. I suspect they'll bat it away, and spend the next seven weeks fighting each other rather than the real enemy.

And, yeah, I agree they squander their position, although they probably wish they were still the third party rather than the fourth. (And the thing is, with a pact, they would have a shot at becoming the third party again, even if the SNP won every single Scottish seat.)

Professor Bear


Steve Green

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 19 April, 2017, 01:32:28 PM
Vince Cable isn't the Lib Dems, but I suspect you're right anyway. We now have the Greens and the SNP saying they're up for a grand coalition of some sort, so the ball's in Labour and LD courts. I suspect they'll bat it away, and spend the next seven weeks fighting each other rather than the real enemy.

And, yeah, I agree they squander their position, although they probably wish they were still the third party rather than the fourth. (And the thing is, with a pact, they would have a shot at becoming the third party again, even if the SNP won every single Scottish seat.)

Farron seems more interested in not ruling out a coalition with the Tories.

Old Tankie

Well, if there is Brexit remorse as is often suggested on here the Lib Dems will win the election.

IndigoPrime

Quote from: Old Tankie on 19 April, 2017, 02:03:09 PMWell, if there is Brexit remorse as is often suggested on here the Lib Dems will win the election.
I know you're being glib, but I can't imagine anyone thinks the LDs will do anything more than at the very best (and this would be a HUGE ask) flip most of their losses from 2015. My guess is they'll end up with somewhere between 10 and 15 seats.

But then FPTP doesn't help. For example, imagine there really is full-on Brexit remorse and the polling's just flat-out wrong. The LDs manage because of this to take 15% from the Tories and 5% from Labour. Here's what happens:

CON with 28%: 304 seats
LAB with 20%: 209 seats
LD with 25%: 57 seats

With a number of Richmond Parks, the LDs might not need that many votes to get a few dozen seats, perhaps, but FPTP rigs the vote for the Tories and a slightly lesser degree for Labour, and that's never going to change.

Theblazeuk

Who knew that after all those decades and centuries of political activity and debate, everything actually boiled down to something as simple as YES or NO to EU membership? Think of the time and energy we could have saved.