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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 2449 times)

Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #75 on: 17 April, 2017, 10:50:16 pm »
I do like that conference scene as a single shot.

Keef Monkey

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #76 on: 18 April, 2017, 05:05:45 pm »

I wonder if they will have the excellent martial artists back from "The Raid" films again to quite literally stand around and not do any martial arts of any kind. What on earth was that about? They could have got me for that scene. At least when Rogue One got Donnie Yen they let him have a martial arts scene. 

I'd rather see another film along the lines of Rogue One with new characters and the odd short Darth Vader style cameo.

I'm guessing the raid guys just asked if they could be in star wars, so the director gave them a cameo, along with several other well known actors in the film.

I would much, much rather see the last jedi than another turgid star wars film along the lines of Rogue One.

I can't for the life of me remember if I read this somewhere or just heard it in conversation, but I recall rumours that entire sequence was originally supposed to play out very differently, but Harrison Ford was injured on-set so they had to drastically overhaul plans to keep on schedule, so the intended fight scenes were jettisoned.

It did seem a real waste of their talent, although I did get pretty excited just to see them standing there.

EDIT: Can't find any word of this online after a quick search, so may have been scuttlebutt. I did find this though, saying that they were originally contacted to help with fight choreography ideas, so them doing that and then being offered cameos seems more likely actually - https://coconuts.co/jakarta/lifestyle/raid-stars-reveal-how-they-got-their-roles-star-wars-episode-vii-force-awakens/
« Last Edit: 18 April, 2017, 05:08:50 pm by Keef Monkey »

radiator

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #77 on: 18 April, 2017, 08:00:56 pm »
Just saw Rogue One for the third time with 5 friends this evening.  It gets worse on every viewing folks.....everyone in the room felt exactly the same.

Force awakens has buckets of problems, but 6 viewings in its still fun and entertaining. Rogue one won't be getting viewing number 4.

I'm very much of this opinion too. Force Awakens is seriously flawed movie, but it thunders along and has some genuinely charming moments and some really likable (albeit underwritten) new characters. I'd be tempted to say that the first hour is pretty much spot on (up until they get to the green planet/space bar, where it promptly starts to fall apart).

Rogue One is just dismal by comparison, imo. There's just a dull void where the characters and heart of the movie should be. While it's accomplished on a purely technical level, I just don't think it holds together as a movie in its own right. Just my observation, but even its fans only ever seem to praise the vfx, or the costumes, or the vehicles, or the overtly fan-servicey stuff like the Darth Vader cameo - you rarely hear anything positive about the actual characters or story.

Quote
people like Simon Pegg and Daniel Craig don't have anything extra to bring to the table. Again they could have put me in their roles

I think this is somewhat missing the point - they were clearly anonymous by design. Had Pegg and Craig been recognisable in their cameos, it would have been totally distracting.

Quote
According to my version of Star Wars Canon, cobbled together from the film and various EU novels I cherry-pick from, Luke is actually the chosen one as predicted by the Jedi/Sith and he's the hardest/most accomplished Force user ever to have existed.

Then the story's over, because now the good guys are totally overpowered and the bad guys are the underdogs. Doesn't work narratively, and is exactly why the majority of the old EU material doesn't work - there's no stakes in a story where the good guys have already won... And eventually, yes Luke has to die*.

*Though judging by the beard Hamill was sporting at the Celebration thing, I suspect he'll be popping his clogs in episode IX rather than VIII.

Tony Angelino

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #78 on: 18 April, 2017, 09:33:52 pm »
Quote
people like Simon Pegg and Daniel Craig don't have anything extra to bring to the table. Again they could have put me in their roles

I think this is somewhat missing the point - they were clearly anonymous by design. Had Pegg and Craig been recognisable in their cameos, it would have been totally distracting.[/quote]

I didn't really have any point to make about Simon Pegg and Daniel Craig. I was making the point about The Raid actors being wasted in the roles they were given. Another post stated that it was no different to some of the other famous cameos but I don't think it was.

Anyway I don't even find Daniel Craig distracting when he's in a James Bond film. Bring back Roger.
« Last Edit: 18 April, 2017, 09:38:32 pm by Tony Angelino »

Eric Plumrose

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #79 on: 21 April, 2017, 08:32:30 pm »
Force Awakens is seriously flawed movie, but it thunders along and has some genuinely charming moments and some really likable (albeit underwritten) new characters. I'd be tempted to say that the first hour is pretty much spot on

THE FORCE AWAKENS was an uninspired reboot. I was already grumbling at some hitherto unknown* version of the Empire or whatever the First Order is supposed to be even before I watched the blessed thing. Rey's too powerful. The fan service tedious. And anyone being able to use a lightsaber diminishes them as weapons.




* The passing interest I have in STAR WARS rarely extends beyond the movies. And I like it kept simple. The Empire was defeated in RETURN. Except, apparently it wasn't. And even that tablecloth's been pulled once already.
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TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #80 on: 21 April, 2017, 08:42:59 pm »
And anyone being able to use a lightsaber diminishes them as weapons.

You mean like Han does in TESB?

I actually share almost all your objections, except that I think the movie gets past all those problems by being fun and having an engaging cast, and I find myself eager to see what they do next.

Suede1971

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #81 on: 21 April, 2017, 08:46:44 pm »
Force Awakens is seriously flawed movie, but it thunders along and has some genuinely charming moments and some really likable (albeit underwritten) new characters. I'd be tempted to say that the first hour is pretty much spot on

THE FORCE AWAKENS was an uninspired reboot. I was already grumbling at some hitherto unknown* version of the Empire or whatever the First Order is supposed to be even before I watched the blessed thing. Rey's too powerful. The fan service tedious. And anyone being able to use a lightsaber diminishes them as weapons.

That was my problem with it, at first there was the excitement of seeing a new star wars film in the cinema then you realize its too much like a new hope imo.

Hopefully the last jedi will try to be different, id rather not see the same film in a different package.

Eric Plumrose

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #82 on: 21 April, 2017, 09:42:02 pm »
You mean like Han does in TESB?

I actually share almost all your objections, except that I think the movie gets past all those problems by being fun and having an engaging cast, and I find myself eager to see what they do next.

Yup, just like Han does in EMPIRE. My preference would be his trying but inability to not only wield a lightsaber but even ignite the fucker being used as an opportunity to remind us of Han's resourcefulness.

Thing is, I'm not a STAR WARS fan. Which is probably why I'm so unforgiving of THE FORCE AWAKENS. I loved Daisy, John, Oscar, and Adam. The only reason I enjoyed the first half-hour/hour is entirely down to them (and, along with Hamill, they'll be the only reason I'll even entertain the idea of watching THE LAST JEDI). Unlike Ewan and Hayden, they could say that shit.

But I have no goodwill towards THE FORCE AWAKENS because I have no real affection for the franchise. Episode VII is crap. Not because it's a bad STAR WARS movie but because it's a bad movie.
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radiator

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #83 on: 21 April, 2017, 10:19:29 pm »
Force Awakens is seriously flawed movie, but it thunders along and has some genuinely charming moments and some really likable (albeit underwritten) new characters. I'd be tempted to say that the first hour is pretty much spot on

THE FORCE AWAKENS was an uninspired reboot. I was already grumbling at some hitherto unknown* version of the Empire or whatever the First Order is supposed to be even before I watched the blessed thing. Rey's too powerful. The fan service tedious. And anyone being able to use a lightsaber diminishes them as weapons.




* The passing interest I have in STAR WARS rarely extends beyond the movies. And I like it kept simple. The Empire was defeated in RETURN. Except, apparently it wasn't. And even that tablecloth's been pulled once already.

As I said - it's a seriously flawed movie. I largely agree with your criticisms. Rey is too powerful. Finn's ability to wield a lightsaber in the midst of battle is dumb (and on a related note, they also make lightsabers less and less cool every time they introduce weapons like the baton that can counter them). The characters are (mostly) quite weakly written and only buoyed by the ludicrously charismatic actors who play them. The recycling of ANH plot beats is distracting and unnecessary (I think even TFA's biggest defenders would admit that the Death Star 2.0 was poorly executed and entirely superfluous. The First Order is problematic, and they don't really make a lot of sense as an entity, but it's hard to see how they could feasibly even make an Episode VII without resurrecting the Empire in one form or another. Better the New Order than an endless procession of rogue factions of the old Empire and/or Emperor Palpatine clones that kept cropping up in the old EU stories.

It's a 2 (charitably a 3) star movie that I keep rewatching in the hopes that it will somehow turn into a 4 or 5.

Despite the flaws (and I still maintain that the movie really starts to fall apart during the second act before recovering slightly in the third), I'd still argue that as a film it's far superior to Rogue One. On your fan service point - it's totally a subjective thing, but I find the blatant fan service in R1 far more pernicious and distracting than anything in TFA. Ultimately, I liked all the characters in TFA so I felt invested in the plot to some degree. It had a trace of the old movie magic about it. In Rogue One I felt absolutely nothing.

Professor Bear

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TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #85 on: 22 April, 2017, 06:29:57 am »
Finn's ability to wield a lightsabre... I think we saw different movies. In the one I watched, he turns it on twice, waves it about wildly hitting people and then gets comprehensively flattened both times.

Agreed, TFA is a mess of a movie, a fairly desperate hodge podge of reused ideas thrown together in commercial  effort to restart a series that had a natural conclusion, but it is enjoyable watching on several superficial levels, and far enough ahead of the previous two abominations to offer some hope that it can grow into its own thing.

SIP

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #86 on: 22 April, 2017, 08:18:16 am »
 Did I mention that TFA is miles better than Rogue One?

If not, it is.

Can't wait for the last Jedi. Like and Rey and Kylo. Cool.

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #87 on: 22 April, 2017, 08:35:14 am »
I know it's a dull truism, but Rogue One is what it is. It's explicitly and deliberately fan service, an opening salvo in a parallel series of fan-service films, aimed at marrying full-on 70s nostalgia to the more 'grown up' sensibilities some folk imagine they have, with a side line in bringing fans of the prequels and cartoons on side. It doesn't try to further the overall story (although it opens some interesting avenues), but it does create some new perspectives on ANH, has at least two objectively cool new characters and a visually striking last act.

It's fine, it does what it said it would do.

Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #88 on: 22 April, 2017, 09:38:51 am »
If nothing else, I appreciate that Rogue One didn't come hand-in-hand with the mix of nostalgia and entitlement with which TFA was marketed to those vocal fans who insisted that George Lucas didn't understand Star Wars like its fans do, a strain of sentiment that has seen TFA elevated beyond its status as an objectively poor sci-fi romp with inconsistent tone, gaping plot/narrative deficiencies, but a good cast and top-notch production values.  See also: JJ Abrams' Star Trek reboot, a film which I enjoy and have seen multiple times, but which I know in my heart is Not Very Good and I would probably have hated if not for the long-standing affection I hold for the characters and franchise.

SIP

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #89 on: 22 April, 2017, 11:23:08 am »
Rogue One rests heavily on knowledge of A New Hope to make you care. It's packed with cameo appearances and references that you would only care about in continuity to the next film. The whole film plays out as Fan Service. My wife, not a big star wars fan and more a casual viewer, got absolutely nothing out of Rogue One but did enjoy the force awakens. I think with Rogue One you need to be in on the continuity to get something out of it, the characters are dry, hollow and it's really hard to care in isolation.