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Author Topic: Judge Dredd in Colour  (Read 975 times)

IndigoPrime

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #15 on: 11 April, 2017, 12:37:53 pm »
Yeah, I'm referring to Quality Comics around the time of Law of Dredd starting up. I most notably remember the Nemesis collection, which was really badly edited, and ABC Warriors, which omitted entire chunks of episodes. Really messy stuff. (LoD was one series in which endings were sometimes missed entirely. Bizarre.) Earlier stuff was better, I agree.

positronic

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #16 on: 11 April, 2017, 12:53:14 pm »
Yeah, I'm referring to Quality Comics around the time of Law of Dredd starting up. I most notably remember the Nemesis collection, which was really badly edited, and ABC Warriors, which omitted entire chunks of episodes. Really messy stuff. (LoD was one series in which endings were sometimes missed entirely. Bizarre.) Earlier stuff was better, I agree.

And that's what it was. Just as I thought. As I understand it, at that point in time there were enough small American comic book companies that competion was quite stiff, and overall order numbers fell somewhat across the board for all but the most popular mainstream titles. To offset this, the production was shifted to the U.S. as a cost-saving feature and so as to be nearer to printers. IIRC, I also recall some sort of mild insinuations that Sal Quartucccio may not have been spending all the budget he'd been allotted for those comics, with funds skimmed off to aid cash flow to his other ventures.

positronic

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #17 on: 11 April, 2017, 01:06:52 pm »

Its a shame you don't get on with black and white strips as they will keep cropping up and you'll miss a lot of good stuff, but if your autism prevents that there's not much to be done except as suggested getting the Eagle reprints (avoid the 'Quality' ones).


Yeah, I know what you mean.  In the 2000AD 40th Anniversay Special I struggled with Ro-Busters - pure black and white art and very dense, but I could read this one with some effort.  Henry Flint's Zombo artwork was quite difficult too although the greyscale screentones really helped for me there.

 I do keep trying with this stuff, because it pops up everywhere.  For instance, I just got 'The Kreeler Consipracy' - Strontium Dog.  Online it looked coloured but it has a coloured story first then black and white then coloured again.  Fortunately Esquerra's line work on the black and white one looks pretty readable.  He's got stronger lines picking out characters and isn't too heavy with the textures on these particular stories.  Sometimes when he goes overboard on the textures and doesn't strengthen the lines which define seperate objects I do find his style hard to read, which is a shame because he's a terrific artist!   Anyway, thanks guys!

Is there nothing that could help optically to... I don't want to say 'correct', because I know that isn't... I guess maybe "offset" the problem, is the word, even if it may be somewhat of a kludgy sort of workaround?  Or is it strictly a brain/perceptual problem that doesn't respond at all to external physical modification. .. like say, viewing the art through some sort of textured lens? I don't know, just fishing for something here... something that would be affecting/altering contrast or something like that.
« Last Edit: 11 April, 2017, 01:08:31 pm by positronic »

Steve Green

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #18 on: 16 April, 2017, 07:48:55 pm »
Hmm, the Definitive Editions from 1990 are listed as colour...

They include some strips which were originally published as b/w

Bad Science
Metal Fatigue
Hall of Justice
Future Crime

http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=reprint&page=gnprofiles&Comic=DEFINIT

Leigh S

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #19 on: 16 April, 2017, 07:55:35 pm »
Yeah, they are colouised versions of the strips - not American 4 colour process colouring but a slight bit more fancy painted over style!

Steve Green

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #20 on: 16 April, 2017, 08:09:38 pm »
Yeah, think I have one of them at least - but can't really remember them.

Leigh S

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #21 on: 16 April, 2017, 08:31:36 pm »

Is there nothing that could help optically to... I don't want to say 'correct', because I know that isn't... I guess maybe "offset" the problem, is the word, even if it may be somewhat of a kludgy sort of workaround?  Or is it strictly a brain/perceptual problem that doesn't respond at all to external physical modification. .. like say, viewing the art through some sort of textured lens? I don't know, just fishing for something here... something that would be affecting/altering contrast or something like that.

People with Irlen's syndrome find coloured overlays helpful for reading, though not sure if that would be of any use for comics/without Irlen's syndrome http://irlen.com/faqs/

JoFox2108

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #22 on: 17 April, 2017, 08:49:28 pm »

Quote
Even though I'm not autistic, I can readily understand what JoFox2108 is referring to in trying to follow the black and white art.
Beyond people with certain conditions that make following a specific kind of media tricky, I suspect a lot of this comes down to the language of comics – and that language changing. I grew up with pulp British fare. Almost nothing was coloured. 2000 AD would have its centre spread, and things like The Beano would have a spot colour for some strips, but that was it. US comics, by comparison, were in colour throughout my lifetime – although I'm not sure how much easier some were to follow, given the semi-random and low-quality nature of the colouring jobs. 2000 AD of course switched gears dramatically when painted art came in, although plenty of sub-Bisley clones meant you got a lot of hard-to-follow murky brown crud until artists properly learned to grapple with colour. (You then got crazy digital stuff a few years later, before that too settled down.)


Thanks Indigo, I've been thinking about the effect the 'language of comics' has had on me as I grew up.  I started with 'The Beano' and then went on to 'Commando' when I was about 8 or 9.  I read some 2000AD when I was about 16 but couldn't read the black and white art at the time.

After that I didn't follow comics at all until after my son was born.  I bought him some Dark Horse Star Wars comics with 5 1/4 " figures attached.  He wasn't interested but I got hooked.  I was quite happy with the Star Wars Expanded Universe which Dark Horse were doing for years until Marvel took over.  Initially I read everything Marvel put out Star Wars-wise but I felt that they had lost something.
After I gave up on Marvel Star Wars I read loads of stuff, fantasy and Science Fiction and plenty of Manga (where I had same problem with the black and white art work).  I tried superheroes too but they all seemed like a bunch of similar characters in different coloured tights!  I know some people love that stuff but I thought it was boring.  Then started reading Dredd and bought my first 2000AD for 30 years and finally I found the stories I really wanted to read.
So, although Commando was in black and white, the rest of my staple reading material for most of my comic life has been coloured art from Darkhorse. Given that background, maybe my ability to read the pictures in black and white comics will get better with practice?  I don't know.




Yeah, I know what you mean.  In the 2000AD 40th Anniversay Special I struggled with Ro-Busters - pure black and white art and very dense, but I could read this one with some effort.  Henry Flint's Zombo artwork was quite difficult too although the greyscale screentones really helped for me there.

 I do keep trying with this stuff, because it pops up everywhere.  For instance, I just got 'The Kreeler Consipracy' - Strontium Dog.  Online it looked coloured but it has a coloured story first then black and white then coloured again.  Fortunately Esquerra's line work on the black and white one looks pretty readable.  He's got stronger lines picking out characters and isn't too heavy with the textures on these particular stories.  Sometimes when he goes overboard on the textures and doesn't strengthen the lines which define seperate objects I do find his style hard to read, which is a shame because he's a terrific artist!   Anyway, thanks guys!

Is there nothing that could help optically to... I don't want to say 'correct', because I know that isn't... I guess maybe "offset" the problem, is the word, even if it may be somewhat of a kludgy sort of workaround?  Or is it strictly a brain/perceptual problem that doesn't respond at all to external physical modification. .. like say, viewing the art through some sort of textured lens? I don't know, just fishing for something here... something that would be affecting/altering contrast or something like that.

The only thing I can think of which might help is to go through a book with some watered-down ink and ink in some grey tones, then read the book afterwards.  That way I can do the work of figuring out the pictures first and then enjoy the story without all this stuff getting in the way.  Contrast does help a bit if the artist has made the figure/ground differences stand out by using thicker lines to denote seperate characters and objects.  Generally though I think it's a visual processing difference in autism.



Thanks again to everyone for some mega-helpful ideas - very much appreciated.     :D

positronic

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #23 on: 17 April, 2017, 09:02:17 pm »
Maybe it's just me showing my age, and of course you can never imply these type of things across the board, but I wonder sometimes if many of the newer artists just aren't as visually literate as the old-school craftsmen were. Oh, they can draw the heck out of a picture, don't get me wrong. It's just that a comic book page is a lot more than X number of well-drawn pictures. As artists they may well rank high, but as storytellers... not so much. As with all things, there are, of course, many notable exceptions.

I do feel like with certain artists, I get a very strong impression of a man at work thinking. Others, hardly at all.
« Last Edit: 17 April, 2017, 09:06:42 pm by positronic »

positronic

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #24 on: 17 April, 2017, 09:18:38 pm »
In fact, the more I'm thinking this over, the more I'm realizing how lesser in importance the idea of drawing pretty really is. I can think of many now whose work, if isolated to a single panel, seems innocuous and inconsequential enough. Taken as a story, however -- there's a horse of a different color.

But as with women so too with comics. It's always the pretty ones that bedazzle us first, until we're less distracted and can recognize the deeper character in one perhaps technically more plain to the eye. Not to say both aren't possible either. Again as with women, somewhat rare in number.

Stu101

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #25 on: 17 April, 2017, 11:15:20 pm »
Hi Mr JoFox,

After finally getting to my collection in the loft recently I came across a few eagle reprints I bought back in the day. I actually questioned what I'd be doing with these as I have started the Case Files collecting journey and I need to de-clutter. So if you're interested I could get a list of what I have and hopefully get them to you reasonably soon.

Let me know.

Cheers, Stu

positronic

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #26 on: 17 April, 2017, 11:35:17 pm »
Does anyone know if the case files will continue right up to the current 2000AD and Megazine stories eventually?  Also, have they got a new name now - Restricted Casefiles?

The CFs will catch up eventually, but it's going to take quite a few years to get there at the current publication schedule. The Restricted Files are a different thing - whilst the Casefiles collect all the prog and Meg stories, the Restricted files collect all the odds and ends - stories from the annuals, summer specials etc. I can't remember off-hand how much is colour and how much is black and white.

If it's a special or annual, isn't Judge Dredd the most likely story to be in color? I'm just trying to imagine a special or annual where some other story gets the lead spot with color, and Judge Dredd gets bumped to a black & white slot behind... That's not to say there might not be MORE than one Dredd story in special or annual, with the first in color and the second in black and white. Most likely there would be two or three stories in color in a special or annual, wouldn't there, with one of them being Dredd? At least looking at the 1980s Judge Dredd and 2000 AD Annuals that I have. I don't have a lot of the specials, but it would seem pretty UNspecial if it were entirely in black and white. And Dredd IS the most popular character.

JoFox2108

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #27 on: 19 April, 2017, 08:28:29 am »
Hi Mr JoFox,

After finally getting to my collection in the loft recently I came across a few eagle reprints I bought back in the day. I actually questioned what I'd be doing with these as I have started the Case Files collecting journey and I need to de-clutter. So if you're interested I could get a list of what I have and hopefully get them to you reasonably soon.

Let me know.

Cheers, Stu

Hi Stu, That sounds wonderful!  Can you see my email address in my profile? (Sorry I'm a bit new to the forum).  If not I'll PM it to you!

Thanks,
Jo
PS:  I'm a female.  Jo is short for Joanne!   :)

IndigoPrime

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #28 on: 19 April, 2017, 11:18:11 am »
If it's a special or annual, isn't Judge Dredd the most likely story to be in color?
Not really. You have to bear in mind that in the early days, the annuals and specials had very few colour pages, and in the very early days, Dredd vied for top spot with other strips, including Dan Dare (and also appeared in the Dan Dare annual). Also, plenty of Dredd annuals/specials had multiple tales, hence some of them not being in colour.

Flicking through the RFs I have, the majority of tales are in colour, but every one of the book has at least some black and white strip. The first two seem to have somewhat more – in the first there are eight or nine. The latter RFs have fewer, but the fourth one is a pretty weak collection, IMO. (The second is easily the best.)

ming

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Re: Judge Dredd in Colour
« Reply #29 on: 19 April, 2017, 11:39:27 am »
There's also a nice old Titan book that collected a few colour Mike McMahon Dredd stories that originally appeared in annuals (1981-82).  It's easy to find on eBay for a few quid (under a tenner, at least), but this is the one I mean:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JUDGE-DREDD-COLOUR-SERIES-Book-1-The-Streets-of-Mega-city-Titan-Book-/231554818496?hash=item35e9be21c0:g:5~kAAOSwPhdVS5j3