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I may get shot for this...

Started by marko10174, 23 April, 2017, 09:52:14 PM

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matty_ae

Carlos Ezquerra's art is like a range of red wines.
There's fine wine in there. There's a bit of table wine produced to order.
And there's some dusty bottles that few can afford to have.
But its always very good stuff.

If you're just a beer drinker that's ok but wine will come to you when your palette matures.

And Ron Smith is absinthe.


positronic

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 26 April, 2017, 09:03:57 AM
Quote from: positronic on 26 April, 2017, 05:14:07 AMI think ultimately the most telling indictment of his work to me, was when I read in Thrill-Power Overload that he used to set himself a specific amount of time to work on each page, based on his page-rate from 2000 AD. When that time elapsed, he was done, regardless of what the page looked like at that point. Apparently it was a system that worked for him, in justifying his page-rate, but it seemed a bit mercenary to me, and hard for me to respect from the point of view of the-artist-as-craftsman.

The fact that is true makes his level of artistry even more astonishing.

It depends on how you look at it, I guess. All I can see is an employee who cared more about making sure he got his calculated hourly wage, than an artist who cared more about what his work looked like in print -- it just seems more like a factory-worker mindset. His choice, of course. I don't know what kind of bills he had to pay every month.

Colin YNWA

While I'm staying well away from the central debate here, as its really is hard to argue against an individual's preference for one artist over another, I think its worth saying a couple of things about Ron Smith.

That he choose (by his admission) to time the amount of time he took on a page to ensure the page rate he got is neither here nor there. Why should an artist, as anyone else, not seek a decent rate for his or her work. Why is creating a system to make sure he got when he believed his time was worth something open to discussion.

Regardless of what individuals may think about his work its clear that his quality was never compromised as editors kept giving him plenty of paid work. The subjective appeal of that is for the individual to decide. His method to ensure he paid his mortgage and got what he felt his work was worth is neither here nor there. It could be said that it speaks to a professionalism that other artists have lacked and ensured he delivered on time AND the editors and people who paid him speak to the professional standard of that work.

For me personally the quality of his work was best described by I think it was Supersurfer many moons ago comparing him to Jack Kirby. He didn't get him back in the day by as he aged he (Supersurfer) really began to appreciate quite how brilliant he was. That's defo my take. I adore his work now in a way I didn't in the past - though as others have said I was always aware that he drew the citizens of Mega City One with more character than anyone else.

positronic

Quote from: Robin Low on 26 April, 2017, 07:25:16 AM
Quote from: positronic on 26 April, 2017, 05:14:07 AMAs for Ron Smith, well... he certainly drew a LOT of Judge Dredd. Somehow I never felt like he "fit in" with the other great Dredd artists, though (diverse though they may be). I think ultimately the most telling indictment of his work to me, was when I read in Thrill-Power Overload that he used to set himself a specific amount of time to work on each page, based on his page-rate from 2000 AD. When that time elapsed, he was done, regardless of what the page looked like at that point. Apparently it was a system that worked for him, in justifying his page-rate, but it seemed a bit mercenary to me, and hard for me to respect from the point of view of the-artist-as-craftsman.

Hmmm. That will probably cause far more offence than the OP.

Ron Smith absolutely was a craftsman. He was making an honest living by producing something to order for a customer in a timely manner. The fact that he did this to a pretty consistently high standard just demonstrates he was a very good craftsman.

Was he a great artist as well as good craftsman? Well, the proof lies in the admiration people still have for his work long after he stopped crafting it.

Well, perhaps what I felt odd about it is that this information was volunteered by Ron Smith when interviewed in regards to his work for 2000 AD. It's not like something most artists would have felt necessary to bring up, and he could very well have kept that aspect to himself. It just seemed like a very strange sort of attitude to take, considering that he knew that he was being interviewed and what he said for the record would be read by his fans as well as his non-fans. Almost as if he was making a point that "it was just work, that's all".

Bolt-01

Positronic- I have to disagree completely with you here. The working method employed by Ron Smith is genius. That he was able to make it work for him for so many years is a testament to both his artistic skill and his storytelling genius.

Many artists these days would do well to learn from the life experiences of these giants of commercial art.

JayzusB.Christ

If you didn't like Ron Smith's work, fair enough. But I'm struggling to see why it makes a difference that he have himself time limits to do it.
I work as a commercial artist myself - when you're working to a brief with a deadline, you have to get the job done. Ron Smith was a comic illustrator, not some independently rich Bohemian lounging about till the muse struck. He had bills to pay, just like the rest of us.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

ming

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 26 April, 2017, 03:07:53 PM
Positronic- I have to disagree completely with you here. The working method employed by Ron Smith is genius. That he was able to make it work for him for so many years is a testament to both his artistic skill and his storytelling genius.

Many artists these days would do well to learn from the life experiences of these giants of commercial art.

I'm definitely fighting with Bolt Block on this one.

Ron's art never appeared rushed and it says much about his talent and professionalism that he know how long he could spend on a page without them looking like he was just churning the stuff out.  He definitely wasn't one of my favourite artists as a kid but these days I rate him right up there with the very best of 'em.

Magnetica

I have never looked at a Ron Smith page and thought it wasn't finished.

If one can't tell the difference what difference does it make how he does it?

And indeed without knowing more details I don't think one can say it isn't a good approach.

For all we know he might have been easily able to compete the core of a page (and I would suggest the evidence is that that is the case) and he then used the additional time to add in little extras but put a cap on it - as in "enough is enough".

Also some people tend to work better when there is a deadline. It stops you faffing about and makes you get on with. Better that than endless prevaricating over it.

Anyway I'll judge it in the end results and they have always looked mighty fine to me.

Smith

Yeah,Im with the majority here.His work process doesn't affect the final result.
You can draw with you feet,as long as your good at it.

Robin Low

Quote from: positronic on 26 April, 2017, 01:10:02 PMWell, perhaps what I felt odd about it is that this information was volunteered by Ron Smith when interviewed in regards to his work for 2000 AD. It's not like something most artists would have felt necessary to bring up, and he could very well have kept that aspect to himself. It just seemed like a very strange sort of attitude to take, considering that he knew that he was being interviewed and what he said for the record would be read by his fans as well as his non-fans. Almost as if he was making a point that "it was just work, that's all".

I think it was just an example of on honest man giving an insight into the realities of producing art in a commercial environment. It's practical advice for any young artist who wants to get out of the garret and put down a deposit on a mortgage.

Regards,

Robin


Spikes

I'm guessing all artists eventually find a way to finish a page to a set time, with no loss in quality, than when they first started.
As they are not being paid a million quid per page, I guess money and time does - understandably - factor into the equation.

I have personally heard many artists talk about this. Same with writers - when asked by fans about a particular cherished story - have indeed said 'We'll I just made that one up on the spot, really. Just a bit of fun. No deeper meaning to it'.

They can talk openly about this, because as adults we can understand, or relate to, the process more, than we could as kids. If the story and the art is great, it matters not how it was created, really.

Ron's first published comic work was in the late 40s/early 50s wasn't it? When did he abandon pencils? 70s? Early 80s?





Jim_Campbell

Quote from: Spikes on 26 April, 2017, 04:52:53 PM
Ron's first published comic work was in the late 40s/early 50s wasn't it? When did he abandon pencils? 70s? Early 80s?

I can't recall which interview I read it in, but it was definitely during his time on 2000AD — he said something about laying down a few 'gesture' lines (presumably a call-back to his origins in animation) and then basically going straight at each panel in ink.
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
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Spikes

Yes, thinking about it, I recall it being said it was quite late on in his career as well.

Not an easy trick to pull off I'd imagine, even with talent and decades of experience under your belt.
But a testament to his skill, that we are having to try to figure out a date for when he stopped.

Tony Angelino

I think we are very lucky to have had artists like Ron and Carlos work on Judge Dredd and comics in general. Never mind being Dredd artists they would both be in my top 5 artists. Their art brings back a lot of memories.

A pity DC Thomson don't reprint a lot of their earlier stuff because Ron did a lot of great work for them in comics like Warlord and the Hotspur and I think a lot of the younger generation of readers would really like them.




JOE SOAP

#119
Quote from: positronic on 26 April, 2017, 12:55:25 PMIt depends on how you look at it, I guess. All I can see is an employee who cared more about making sure he got his calculated hourly wage, than an artist who cared more about what his work looked like in print -- it just seems more like a factory-worker mindset. His choice, of course. I don't know what kind of bills he had to pay every month.

If the art was crap or sub-par you might have a point – but it isn't. I see him as someone who mastered his craft a long time ago to a very high standard and was disciplined and confident enough to know what he could respectably achieve in a set time. We also don't know how long his days actually were before the buzzer went off compared to those of other artists.