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Remeber when games used to be more fun?

Started by richerthanyou, 26 January, 2016, 12:50:41 PM

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radiator

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 27 January, 2016, 11:34:49 AM
Difficulty is a function of duration, I think.

Old games relied on rote and memory and trial and error, but once mastered they took no more than a few hours to finish. The fun was in the learning.

Modern games are simply too long and focus more on the story.

"Old games" per se are replicated in downloadable indie games now, and most retail releases are actually a form of interactive video.

Interesting points.

My inkling is that a lot of people think they want games to be as hard as they were in the 'good old days', but there's definitely an element of rose tinted spectacles going on. Seriously, go back and play all those 'classic' games without cheating or abusing save states. Go back and play a really old game you didn't play at the time and don't have a load of nostalgia and affection for. I guarantee the lack of things we've become accustomed to - autosaving, reasonable checkpointing, overall 'fairness' etc - will be totally jarring.

I stand by my assertion that really 'timeless' old games are few and far between. Take the NES - a system that is much celebrated and almost universally adored. But if you weren't there at the time (which I wasn't) you'll find that 99.9% of it's games are a joyless exercise in frustration. Very little you'd want to play for more than a quick five minute blast.

It's a very tricky thing for developers to get right. At the other extreme, one of the grating things about modern games is this palpable sense of fear developers have that you'll get stuck for more than 30 seconds and lose interest, so they add in all this obnoxious sign-posting and hand-holding. But for me, once a game starts to feel too easy, player input starts to feel redundant, and it just becomes a slog. An element of challenge is critical.

That's why I tend to play mostly indie games - Hotline Miami, Shovel Knight, Limbo, Trials, Mark of the Ninja, GunPoint et al. They marry old-school, stripped-down game design philosophy with a modern respect for the player's time (ability to save your game, no arbitrary limit on continues etc etc).

JamesC

There are plenty of good games on the NES once you get past the vast array of second rate platformers. You just need to know what to look for.

The thing is, back in the 80s and early 90s, many of the most popular games were still heavily influenced (if not direct ports of) coin op games. Coin op games are designed to be hard so that they eat people's money. Take a look at games like Ghouls N Ghosts, or Paperboy. Notoriously hard coin ops which were ported to just about every home computer and console and sold bloody millions.
Modern 'action, adventure' games owe almost as much to the RPG genre and PC point and click adventures as they do to those old arcade action games. The object of most modern games is to progress through the stiory, not to see how far you can get with 3 lives or to try to beat your mate's high score. It's a completely different type of game design.

JamesC

Actually, I think getting your head around the 'score attack' object of many retro games is probably one of the main stumbling blocks.
If you can get into the right head space, I think there are still loads of old games which can be rewarding.
Playing something like Missile Command with a tracker ball is still a pretty intense experience IMHO and requires lots of skill to be any good at.
That gameplay philosophy is probably more akin to pinball culture than to modern console gaming though.

ThryllSeekyr

Don't ever recall games being easier or harder back in the beginning, but they were simpler. I don't think I was ever a good player unless I really stuck at it and got into the game.

The classics from the arcades were always remembered....

Space-Invaders

Pac-Man,

Asteriods,

Centipede,

Moon-Patrol

There was this one where the coin you use to activate the game is also used to play it as you juggle the large flat plate glass cabinent to get it rolling along the right path to it's destination.

One of two fo those games were made into cartoon or live film and yeah, I mean Centipedeas well.





ThryllSeekyr

Almost forgot, Q-bert and url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/258970/ ] Gauntlet[/url] which have both been revamped on Steam and think really prefer the older ones.


IndigoPrime

JamesC: I'm curious to know one thing—how often do you play old games today? Are your opinions coming from someone who still enjoys regularly playing old NES games, or someone who recalls them fondly?

I think it's probably also worth noting that we of course only recall and revere the cream of the crop from old games. Most of them were mediocre at best, which isn't any different today. For every Impossible Mission there was a Street Surfer.

Satanist

Tempest is as good today as it ever was - Try TxK on the Vita (Jeff Minters latest iteration) as its effin  amazing.

Games were mostly harder due to the tech they were on so save states were rare. I reckon its also down to the fact that there's distractions everywhere so they have to reward you every 5 seconds to keep your attention.

I still play retro games (mostly snes) today and so do my kids. The greats are mostly still great and the shit ones have remained shit.

If you want to go back further then I imagine C64 games are very difficult to get into now days but I did go through a phase a few years back of re-playing old text adventures.

In our house recently we have mostly been playin....

Me - Bloodborne - Internet says its super hard but I breezed through it to platinum and am just about to start the DLC.

Eldest son (10) - Just completed Chrono Trigger on SNES and is on his umpteenth playthrough of Dark Souls.

Youngest son (7) - Currently on the final levels of Super Meat Boy.

These are all supposed HARDCORE games.

So there are still difficult games still out there if you want to play them its just for the most part gamers aren't bred like they are in my house  :lol: and the market is geared that way.

Hmm, just pretend I wrote something witty eh?

JamesC

Yes I play them pretty regularly, I'm quite heavily involved in organising a game festival with a healthy element of retro gaming with my work.
I recently had a pretty good session with Solar Jetman on the NES. I'd say Solar Jetman is a pretty good example of a game that stands up. It doesn't require any more complexity than it has and the control system works a treat.
The retro system that gets most play from me is the Mega Drive (probably just because it's the system I have most games for). I have a few favourites on this system - Super Fantasy Zone, Ranger X, Wonder Boy in Monster World and Micro Machines (the first one).


Satanist

Micro Machines multiplayer is as good now as it ever was, see also original Mario Kart.

Just add beer and they are perfect.
Hmm, just pretend I wrote something witty eh?

Keef Monkey

Read a while back about a parent who was introducing his son to gaming in a chronological fashion - giving him old consoles at a young age and seeing how his gaming interest/skill developed. There's a blog out there somewhere with his findings!

ThryllSeekyr

#25
Anybody recall Barbarian possibly one the first games to rotor-scope pixels based on the carefully choreographed movements of Arnold Swartzeneggar and as use buy lot of those computer mags. I would just read up on what they did with this one and a lot of others.  I combed the shopping centre's and small business's (With the help of my folks!) of the Gold Coast in the fortnight after New Years of 87 or 88 looking for that one and never finding it. Which was the traditional fortnight we would always holiday on the south coast. Now those days are gone.


Didn't get to play that one until I had got my hands on the sequel (I found it easily enough Brisbane cbd some where. Let me see. I recall buying A Tolkiens Beastiary in book store under Post-Office Square possibly sometime in 89 from one of the Electronic Boutique (A unfortunate name for a gaming store franchise start by a man in Texas. Like come, on what type of male gamer admits he's off to the boutique. It's a bit gender-benderish when it takes all types and sex's!)  which wasn't really the same calibre of game and took it to my cousin's house to play on his machine. As it turns out his next door neighbour has it and he lent it to us to look at. Interesting, but short lived was my go on this one and how disappointed was I. I knew I needed more time to get the hang of it.


Got all the way to last stage where he fights that large red demon who just fires bolts of energy at him while he needs to make his way across the screen to get closer enough to hit him. Never finished this game un-fortunitely, but I did find the old floppy disk of this one while moving stuff out of my old room. Along with all the Bard's Tale games, and some other except Classic Elite. If my father ever bothers to dig old C64 breadbin keyboard, and disk drive and cords (Barring one that got lost and was replaced possibly lost again, after I gave to dad for safe keeping. We had a heated argument over this the other day!)  I'll be reliving memories from my later teen years.


It was while I was down south washing the windows of cars and trucks in Sydney that I started collecting a magazine called Retro-Gamer... that I was sure was doing a exclusive on the work of Jeff Minter....you know Space Lamas or something like that. A lot of his stuff was related to Lamas. Those were interesting. yet it wasn't until I got back home in Queensland that found the same magazine covering that Barbarian game. Most importantly, it came had a emulated copy of it on demo disk. Which also unfortunitely turned out to be utter crap.

Yes, it was just awful, probably because I had to play it on keyboard, but even the translation graphics just wrong.

I can't find a good emulation for it right now, but might still ave that demo disk some where.

They should KickStart this one

   
You know, maybe even as a mod for Skyrim or that Witcher game.


IndigoPrime

I wrote that article for Retro Gamer. The animations had nothing to do with Arnie, though; they were based on videos of the developers attacking each other with wooden swords.

Aside from its sluggish speed and some AI issues, I always quite rated Barbarian. It tried to do something a bit different from all the karate games that were doing the rounds at the time. I never really got on with the sequel, though, which was a bit limited in terms of the fighting and not all that interesting when it came to adventuring. Barbarian III never got beyond some doodles by Steve Brown, unfortunately.

Satanist

I loved Barabarian 1 and 2 almost as much as young me loved Maria Whittaker on the covers.
Hmm, just pretend I wrote something witty eh?

richerthanyou

Quote from: Satanist on 28 January, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
I loved Barabarian 1 and 2 almost as much as young me loved Maria Whittaker on the covers.

Old me thinks she's a bit of alright too!
(  ゚,_ゝ゚)   

The Enigmatic Dr X

Quote from: richerthanyou on 28 January, 2016, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: Satanist on 28 January, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
I loved Barabarian 1 and 2 almost as much as young me loved Maria Whittaker on the covers.

Old me thinks she's a bit of alright too!

Game Over.
Lock up your spoons!