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General Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: The Legendary Shark on 09 April, 2010, 03:59:03 pm

Title: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 09 April, 2010, 03:59:03 pm
As the "election" is coming up, when we'll all be asked to vote on the people the Power Elite tell us to vote for, I thought we might as well have a political thread for this and other political comments.

I'll kick off by posting this here:


"Dear friends,

Take a look at this: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/clean-up-lobbying

I've just emailed my local election candidates to demand that they support new rules to ban secret lobbying to help clean up politics.

Whether it's tobacco advertising, arms deals, GM food, or airport expansion, companies pay people to try to influence government. We've got a right to know what they're doing, especially when its our prospective MPs who are working as lobbyists.

Please email your candidates now and ask them to commit to lobbying transparency, it only takes two minutes: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/clean-up-lobbying

Thanks,"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 09 April, 2010, 04:34:44 pm
I'm glad there are people like you who still give a damn about politics, because I no longer have the energy for it. I was very interested and involved in politics from the age of 13 right up until the 1997 general election, in which I voted for a party other than Labour, such was my disgust at what the Labour Party had become. From that day on my involvement in politics has been minimal, amounting to no more than voting whenever the opportunity arises, and activism against the imposition of Controlled Parking across my whole neighbourhood by the City Council.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 09 April, 2010, 05:14:22 pm
Now is the time for us to take Parliament back.

It is our right and our duty to do all we can to leave behind an honest and decent society for future generations. History may only record the names of Kings and Lords and Presidents, but it's the unnamed millions who fuel it. One small person can't do it all, but all people can do one small thing. To vote is one small thing. To fight against controlled parking is one small thing. To post here is one small thing.

I don't need to say any more, you know exactly where I'm going with this.

(http://www.tootingpopularfront.com/citizensmith.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 April, 2010, 05:42:01 pm
I am voting for an independent party which is going to be UKIP as i refuse to vote for a the main three co-opted parties so therefore i dont sanction their sham and illusion of choice.

David Cameron isnt the answer as its just more vague and abstract "change" which translated means more of the same shit.David Cameron is a traitor and a fifth columnist who works for globalists and foreign interests and does not in any way represent the United Kingdom or its people or their interests.David Cameron and George Osborne are both Bilderberg attendees and is the next pre- selected UK prime minister.David Cameron will not take us out of the EU and therefore out of the hands of foreign offshore bankers and Globalists and the IMF.You might think he is alright now when he is in opposition but just you wait and see.......

He is bought and paid for and this is how this sham of a democracy in this country is perpetuated.George Osborne and David Cameron both have well known connections to Rothschilds just like Mandelslime.


I have to also call into question the mentality or intelligence of anyone who votes for New Labour.

Lib Dems.I dont know about them but i wouldnt vote for them as they are weak and will just go with the flow and do what they are told.

Voting for an independent party is the only option left to at least make a statement otherwise i am not actually sure what the point of this election is other than to create the illusion that your vote means anything at all when in fact it doesnt.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Trout on 09 April, 2010, 05:42:52 pm
*sigh*

Do we have to do this here?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 April, 2010, 05:51:31 pm
What just my comment or the entire thread ?

As a compromise just for you i deleted the final sentence but the rest stays as there is nothing offensive or incorrect about it.I was asked what i thought in a thread about the upcoming election and this is what i think.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 09 April, 2010, 06:15:58 pm
I'm an anarchist (without adjective) so politics, for me, is a huge big white elephant. It's like a posh form of gang warfare. I see nothing that government does that could not be done better, more efficiently and more honestly by you and me.

I wish everyone who continues to seek answers through organised politics all the very best. Me? I'll be spoiling my vote this year, as I did the year before. And I'll be having fun with my spoil :)   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Trout on 09 April, 2010, 06:35:09 pm
That wasn't directed at anyone in particular. The thread's in the off-topic section, so I'll just ignore it.

- Trout
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 April, 2010, 06:52:14 pm
Thats alright then.I have already moderated my own comments today on the other thread out of consideration for the board.

Other than that there isnt much else i can do.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 09 April, 2010, 07:16:23 pm
I hear ya Trouty, but surely if there is a dedicated thread maybe it'll suck the poison out of other threads... a bit like the Life Spugs and Minor Impediments thread, a one-stop shop for a specific type  of moaning.  As you were...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 09 April, 2010, 07:48:49 pm
I'm an anarchist (without adjective) so politics, for me, is a huge big white elephant. It's like a posh form of gang warfare. I see nothing that government does that could not be done better, more efficiently and more honestly by you and me.

I wish everyone who continues to seek answers through organised politics all the very best. Me? I'll be spoiling my vote this year, as I did the year before. And I'll be having fun with my spoil :)   

What's the point? They'll just throw it in the bin.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 09 April, 2010, 08:21:04 pm
I'm an anarchist (without adjective) so politics, for me, is a huge big white elephant. It's like a posh form of gang warfare. I see nothing that government does that could not be done better, more efficiently and more honestly by you and me.

I wish everyone who continues to seek answers through organised politics all the very best. Me? I'll be spoiling my vote this year, as I did the year before. And I'll be having fun with my spoil :)   

What's the point? They'll just throw it in the bin.

You're probably right, but there's two reasons I persist:

1) It gives me a smile and, quite possibly, the poor fecker counting the votes.
2) If everyone who doesn't normally vote (over 33% of Northern Ireland, for example) decided to spoil their vote, instead, it would send out one hell of a message.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 09 April, 2010, 08:36:29 pm
Although spoiling your vote may seem like a waste of time one reason for doing so, if you have no preference is that it will be counted- in as far as calculating the number of people who came out to vote

In Ireland we had to redo a referendum (it's a national pass-time here) because it was deemed that too few people came out to vote. Had more people made their mark-even by drawing willies on the ballot form, the results of the yes and no votes would have stood....

I think

...these things tend to get complicated
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 April, 2010, 08:47:34 pm
2) If everyone who doesn't normally vote (over 33% of Northern Ireland, for example) decided to spoil their vote, instead, it would send out one hell of a message.

The only problem here is that a spoilt ballot paper could mean the voter is sending a message, but equally it could mean the voter is an incompetent tit. For that reason, I remain in favour of at least the option of 'None of the Above', but preferably 'Round them Up, Shoot them All'.

As a more general comment, perhaps it would be wiser of we kept our specific voting intentions to ourselves. For example, I consider UKIP to be a sickening bunch of filthy, small-minded, pig-ignorant racist bastards, intent on stirring up hostility and bigotry at every opportunity, and frankly no better than the BNP. I really don't need to know who here is planning on voting for them.

As another general comment, this will end in flames.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Martin Jameson on 09 April, 2010, 08:49:59 pm
I'm voting Lib Dem simply because their leader is a Klegg. (Clegg is close enough)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 09 April, 2010, 08:58:24 pm
Although spoiling your vote may seem like a waste of time one reason for doing so, if you have no preference is that it will be counted- in as far as calculating the number of people who came out to vote...

Had more people made their mark-even by drawing willies on the ballot form, the results of the yes and no votes would have stood....

Oh, the irony. Oh yes.

When I lived in York the council held a referendum on having residents only parking (it follows me wherever I go). I voted no, but 51% of those who voted were in favour of the changes. What annoyed me enormously is that had more than a handful of those who voted no merely not turned out to vote, the result would have been invalid. They couldn't have pushed through their measure without my 'no' vote. The bastards.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: WoD on 09 April, 2010, 09:02:43 pm
Damn...this is a car crash thread in the making.

Don't agree with ballet spoiling but would prefer there to be a 'none of the above' option, now that would send a message.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 09 April, 2010, 09:18:37 pm
Don't agree with ballet spoiling but would prefer there to be a 'none of the above' option, now that would send a message.

I agree. But when it isn't available, I write my own 'none of the above' on the paper in a freeform way.

However, I am seriously considering spoiling my vote in the form of a mime, this year.  ;)

Another thing - I wonder can anyone here put their hands on their hearts and say they truly believe in the vote they cast. The best I've heard, so far, from the boarders who do vote have been 'best of a bad bunch' remarks.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 09 April, 2010, 09:25:41 pm
When I vote I tend to think in terms of which candidates are promising to make rich people pay more taxes than poor people, and which are promising to give rich people more money than they have already. I usually find the choice quite easy to make.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 09 April, 2010, 09:26:03 pm
Not too sure about ballot spoiling but I really like the sound of spoiling a ballet.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: WoD on 09 April, 2010, 09:26:12 pm
It's practically impossible (I would think) to have a totally informed opinion on all the relevant issues that you should consider when reviewing your voting options.  'Best of a bad bunch' seems to have some merit, but again is possible for that to be totally thought through?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: WoD on 09 April, 2010, 09:26:58 pm
Not too sure about ballot spoiling but I really like the sound of spoiling a ballet.

ahh ... oops.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: radiator on 09 April, 2010, 09:30:02 pm
Whats the betting that some sort of massive facebook election protest/prank thing gets rolling in the next week or two?

Am going to register to vote for the first time ever this year. I'm undecided - but there is no chance in hell that I am voting for either of the main two parties.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 April, 2010, 09:45:26 pm
2) If everyone who doesn't normally vote (over 33% of Northern Ireland, for example) decided to spoil their vote, instead, it would send out one hell of a message.


As a more general comment, perhaps it would be wiser of we kept our specific voting intentions to ourselves. For example, I consider UKIP to be a sickening bunch of filthy, small-minded, pig-ignorant racist bastards, intent on stirring up hostility and bigotry at every opportunity, and frankly no better than the BNP. I really don't need to know who here is planning on voting for them.

As another general comment, this will end in flames.


Regards

Robin




Article :

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cristinaodone/100033643/nutty-ukip-says-its-a-party-of-real-people-real-people-should-sue/

The comments are worth reading as well.  :D

If we keep things civil then this thread shouldnt end in flames so luckily i am not going to reply to that inflammatory comment.I am not convinced that there is anything Racist in any of UKIP policies but they have been infiltrated by BNP members in the past amongst other things.

I will look into it some more but i will say that i have my reasons for potentially voting for them but none of my reasons are based on Racism or Xenophobia.

I am done with the LIBLABCON.

Otherwise there should be a NO vote/none of the above as a recognised vote of NO confidence.

Not sure about the line them up and shoot them option though as thats what happens in despotic regimes though its interesting you say that.If they are tried in a court of law for treason and sedition then that carries a death penalty.Not sure i sanction the death penalty but thats a seperate topic.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: mogzilla on 09 April, 2010, 09:45:39 pm
mayor ambrose he seems like a nice fella...or dave the orang utan...but he's dead. :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 10 April, 2010, 12:08:03 am
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 10 April, 2010, 12:38:32 am
I'd vote for Ambrose based on his record in office. A real man of the people and a solid, upright citizen.

 :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 10 April, 2010, 03:09:27 am
I have always voted and always will.
I have voted for different parties during my years, depending on what I thought would be best for the country and not just for me. I have also written abuse on a few European ballot papers, because I can and because it disgusts me that they are so corrupt (oops, put my Peter head on then ;)).


By the way on the way back from Hi-Ex! Peter and myself sorted out this countries woes and put it back on track. It was so simple :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 April, 2010, 03:57:02 am
I have always voted and always will.
I have voted for different parties during my years, depending on what I thought would be best for the country and not just for me. I have also written abuse on a few European ballot papers, because I can and because it disgusts me that they are so corrupt (oops, put my Peter head on then ;)).


By the way on the way back from Hi-Ex! Peter and myself sorted out this countries woes and put it back on track. It was so simple :lol:

I didnt get to fiddle any expenses though which was unfortunate.

 :D

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Steve Green on 10 April, 2010, 11:24:45 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h7B3gAxgZU

Confidence in politicians at an all-time low? This will help then...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 10 April, 2010, 11:30:20 am
Vote for who you believe will guide us best through these increasingly troubled times.

Oh bloody hell that means none of 'em...! :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 10 April, 2010, 11:38:19 am
These aren't troubled times. All that's happened is that the economy has been exposed as not so much a flimsy house of cards but rather as an illusion.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Zarjazzer on 10 April, 2010, 11:39:59 am
You should all vote for me and My Selfish Bastard party. At least you know I'm a crook. There's no need to worry about being disappointed by our sham democracy because with me disappointments guaranteed!

My policies-Grab power, ignore the electorate once the elections over, grovel to big business/the power elite ,help criminals not the public,have our foreign policy decided in Washington.

See how fit for office I am?

Well i've still more policies than the Tories!  :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 10 April, 2010, 12:33:02 pm
Aguirre, the Wrath of God is on Tv tonight at 2.20am. Those of a political persuasion should view this and understand that el Dorado will always be out of reach. ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 10 April, 2010, 01:16:05 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6NcAzqAd6M&fmt=18

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: I, Cosh on 10 April, 2010, 01:30:35 pm
Aguirre, the Wrath of God is on Tv tonight at 2.20am. Those of a political persuasion should view this and understand that el Dorado will always be out of reach. ;)
And everybody else should watch it just to see one of the best films ever made, from the opening shot to the bug-eyed, monkey-lording lunacy of the end.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 10 April, 2010, 02:44:22 pm
Not too sure about ballot spoiling but I really like the sound of spoiling a ballet.

What about ballot spoiling through the medium of ballet?  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 10 April, 2010, 02:52:13 pm
ahn the ballet- the bear in the little car right?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 10 April, 2010, 04:11:19 pm
I'm voting LibDem just to increase the chance of a hung parliament. I want to see if they've got the stones to tell either Labour or the Tories to go suck a cock.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 April, 2010, 04:20:06 pm
US intelligence agencies has info on the Blair and Brown cabinets that links very high profile names to child abuse/paedophillia misdeeds.This was the FBI who were investigating the users of child porngraphy websites.

Blair was allegedly blackmailed by the US to back GWBush in Iraq because of this.

Also this was uncovered during what was known as "Operation Ore" which was a Police/CID investigation into child sexual abuse in the UK.Police appealed for info from the public as part of their investigation and they uncovered more than they expected.

The FBI initially forwarded the list to the Times newspaper.

Journalists got wind of this but they were silenced and some journalists were allegedly told that they would be suicided if they continued to cover the story.

Blair then slapped a D-notice on all media in 2003 which still remains in place although there is info available on the internet about this matter.The ongoing Hollie Greig child abuse case in Scotland is linked with this operation.It is this information that has been subject to non-disclosure for 100 years.

This much i know to be true.

Also i know from my contacts who are ex UK intelligence all of 2 that there were some sort of shenanigans that went on between Blair and Mandelson and that blackmail was involved which is why Mandelson keeps getting back into govt to the point now where he is running the UK govt or acting as its head in all but name.They wouldnt tell me any more but its an interesting angle on things.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 10 April, 2010, 04:41:48 pm
Anything to do with the group "Common Purpose," you think?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 April, 2010, 04:55:40 pm
Anything to do with the group "Common Purpose," you think?

Not sure as Common Purpose were never mentioned in any of the information that i have read.

They are definately an extension of the Labour Party and i know about them.They are connected to the Tavistock Institute.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 10 April, 2010, 05:00:26 pm
This sounds like the plot of Greysuit. I'm now guessing it practically wrote itself.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Professor Bear on 10 April, 2010, 05:30:29 pm
I'm not entirely sure how the economy can be viewed as an illusion just because it was based entirely on money that never existed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 10 April, 2010, 05:39:39 pm
Where there's an illusion, there's an illusionist with a fat wallet.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 10 April, 2010, 08:36:37 pm
In politics it is necessary either to betray one's country or the electorate. I prefer to betray the electorate.- Charles de Gaulle

Oh the cynicism! :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 April, 2010, 08:51:29 pm
In politics it is necessary either to betray one's country or the electorate. I prefer to betray the electorate.- Charles de Gaulle

Oh the cynicism! :)

These days its necessary to betray both.

 :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 11 April, 2010, 08:25:34 pm
I think I will vote BNP..just kidding.
UKIP.. oh god they are just as bad.
Monster raving luny party.. now they have some solid policies.
Labour.. arrgh I've just soiled my computer screen.
Lib Dem.. lets just sit on the fence.
Conservative.. more bad news but I suppose a change is better than letting Labour go even more stale.
Green Party.. Hmmmm, I will leave that to my tree hugging hippy inlaw's.

Just remember if you don't vote you diminish your right to moan about whoever is in power.


Fucking politics, causes as much grief as religion.

Lets see what hornets nest these comments bring up.








V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2010, 08:55:08 pm
We live in a soda pop democracy, I say. You can have Coke or Pepsi or Dr Pepper, or if you're in the minority you can have Dandelion & Burdock, Lucozade or Irn Bru. They're all fizzy and sweet with a slightly different taste, but all equally bad for your teeth.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 11 April, 2010, 09:05:37 pm
I'll have Dr. Pepper, please. I'm tired of cola, and dandelion & burdock, Lucozade and Irn Bru are all yuk.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 11 April, 2010, 09:09:02 pm
We live in a soda pop democracy, I say. You can have Coke or Pepsi or Dr Pepper, or if you're in the minority you can have Dandelion & Burdock, Lucozade or Irn Bru. They're all fizzy and sweet with a slightly different taste, but all equally bad for your teeth.

I like that - very well put.  :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 April, 2010, 11:37:55 pm
I think I will vote BNP..just kidding.
UKIP.. oh god they are just as bad.









V

The fact is that is simply not true.

Even in the simplest terms UKIP dont have any problem appearing on Question Time and there has never been any objection to them appearing yet look what happened when Nick Griffin appeared on Question Time.

If you read a Wikipedia article on the BNP and then UKIP you will see that they have nothing in common beyond campaigning against immigration but for different reasons and if you read UKIPs immigration policies they are not racist.

LibDems have been imitating or adopting UKIP policies.

So if they are not Racist then why are they just as bad as the BNP ?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 April, 2010, 12:17:34 am
I think the chief similarity between BNP and UKIP is that both of them are seeking and rely upon the reactionary vote, which they have stood to take from the Conservatives since the Tories decided to shift leftward to contest the centre ground the Labour Party moved onto when it abandoned any pretence of being interested in socialism.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 12 April, 2010, 12:32:17 am
I contested your mom's centre ground many a time. (Sometimes I let your dad win).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: mogzilla on 12 April, 2010, 12:38:52 am
i'm voting the godpleton party :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 12 April, 2010, 03:14:07 pm
They're fluoridating milk, you know: http://www.borrowfoundation.org/index.asp  Fluoride disrupts endocrine functions.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 12 April, 2010, 04:25:21 pm
Pete I am sure wikipedia is full of untainted information that can be relied upon,








V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 12 April, 2010, 06:13:39 pm
So if they are not Racist then why are they just as bad as the BNP ?

If nothing else, the fuss they made about the veil earlier in the year was a calculated attempt to woo racists and stir up fear and prejudice for their own benefit.

And even should I choose to ignore seriously despicable behaviour like that, I still think they stink, because the tossers apparently want to restore imperial measurements, and are sceptical of climate change. I think this county is scientifically illiterate as it is, and really doesn't need a political party encouraging it.

What I don't understand, Peter, is why you're happy to spread the most outrageous conspiracy theories about the mainstream parties as though they might be true, yet can't accept that a party whose raison d'etre is fear of foreigners might be a wee bit racist.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 12 April, 2010, 06:41:54 pm
I don't know enough about UK politics to be able to say whether or not the UKIP are racist. My concern is that if we use the words 'homophobic' and 'racist' too loosely, the terms themselves will become diluted.
 
In Northern Ireland, we've plenty of openly racist, homophobic assholes in power who would describe themselves as 'democratic'.

I would reject the UKIP's policy on immigration. Personally, I would like to see the borders open up more (totally, in fact) as opposed to closing. For one thing, research continues to demonstrate how a strong migrant workforce helps an economoy thrive rather than nose-dive. 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 12 April, 2010, 06:54:48 pm
and are sceptical of climate change.

Dear God, let's not go down this road again ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 April, 2010, 06:58:07 pm
I don't think opening your borders up totally is a sensible thing to do unilaterally. At the moment EU countries have an obligation to accept their share of refugees. If we had no border controls all those refugees, and the torturers and murderers they're running from, as well as any chancer with no education and no marketable skills who's doing badly in their own country, would come straight to Britain instead of making a few stop-offs on the continent along the way. The message would be "don't just come to Europe, come to Britain." Needless to say it wouldn't make us popular with our neighbours. You know how unpopular the French are with Britain for maintaining detention centres on its northern sea border, seen as a way to channel France's own illegal immigrants over to neighbouring countries? That would be us.

This may as well have been a party election broadcast for UKIP, I know.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 12 April, 2010, 07:21:21 pm
Fix the economies of the world by taking back the right of governments to print their own money and the cost of immigration and the reasons behind it (and most other problems such as housing, health care, public spending etc) tend to evaporate. Keeping everyone arguing about the problem (in this case, immigration) and not the cause (hollow banking) is just one example of what all political parties are about. This is the politics of distraction.

The Prime Minister can be seen as the captain of the ship of state. Once the passengers (the electorate) elect a captain and crew (PM and MPs), the ship is redecorated, the way the ship is run is altered, the shift patterns and responsibilities of the crew are tweaked, new rules and regulations are put into place, the decks are swabbed etc, etc, etc - but the course of the ship is not altered. Some years later, a new captain and crew are elected who change everything back again, but the course of the ship is still not altered. This is the politics of distraction.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 April, 2010, 07:29:12 pm
Fix the economies of the world by taking back the right of governments to print their own money and the cost of immigration and the reasons behind it tend to evaporate.

Ah, but now you're laying down the steps necessary as a precondition for totally open borders. Fix the economies of the world (that's only about 195 nation states) and then we can talk about the abolition of border controls. And nation states, for that matter.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 12 April, 2010, 07:41:09 pm
I wouldn't want to abolish any Nation State. National Sovereignty is up to the populace of a country and not to be dictated by others. Once one Nation State, or a group thereof, begins interfering in the affairs of others we arrive at Iraq. Whether a country wants open borders or not is up to that country, irrespective of whether they print their own money or not.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 12 April, 2010, 08:40:36 pm
So if they are not Racist then why are they just as bad as the BNP ?

If nothing else, the fuss they made about the veil earlier in the year was a calculated attempt to woo racists and stir up fear and prejudice for their own benefit.

And even should I choose to ignore seriously despicable behaviour like that, I still think they stink, because the tossers apparently want to restore imperial measurements, and are sceptical of climate change. I think this county is scientifically illiterate as it is, and really doesn't need a political party encouraging it.

What I don't understand, Peter, is why you're happy to spread the most outrageous conspiracy theories about the mainstream parties as though they might be true, yet can't accept that a party whose raison d'etre is fear of foreigners might be a wee bit racist.

Regards

Robin

All my info on the mainstream parties namely New Labour checks out and while i am at it Harriet Harman is an apologist/sympathiser for paedophiles and once campaigned on their behalf.You can google that as its well documented and true.

I dont think that UKIP are sceptical of climate change per se as that would be absurd as i dont know anyone who is sceptical of climate change  :lol: only the causes of climate change namely the CO2 scam which is what i am sceptical of.

Imperial measurements alongside metric.I still work in imperial and i will continue to do so but i also work in metric.Personally i dont see that as very important. :lol:

Your final point about UKIPs reason d'etre being fear of foreigners which is Xenophobia.

Its good that you say that because there is a difference beteween Xenophobia and Racism but the veil incident isnt enough to make me not consider voting for UKIP.


The arguments about immigration should be based on economics and numbers only which they are.

UKIP immigration policy itself is not racist as they clearly say that EVERYONE will be treated the same regardless of race or nationality.They also propose to regain control of UK borders and introduce a points system.The UK has only recently lost control of its borders and prior to that there has been plenty of immigration when the /UK had a points system/border control.

SO therefore UKIPs immigration policy is LESS discriminatory than the UK present immigration policy.

UKIPs reason d'etre is to campaign against the EU and it always has been.

If UKIPS policies are not racist or discriminatory then they are not racists and thats what i have to go on rather than isolated incidents or a minority of racists or xenophobes who may or may not reside in or support the party.



 For one thing, research continues to demonstrate how a strong migrant workforce helps an economoy thrive rather than nose-dive.  


Thats such a generalised statement i dont know where to start but its partly true but it can just as easily have a negative effect but mostly on the workforce as it can drive down labour costs across the board as it has done in the construction industry because employers will often take advantage of cheap labour therefore driving down labour costs throughout the industry and more than once i have lost work because of ridiculously cheap prices offered by cheap immigrant labour that i cant compete with or i refuse to.






Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 12 April, 2010, 09:51:20 pm
The Prime Minister can be seen as the captain of the ship of state. Once the passengers (the electorate) elect a captain and crew (PM and MPs), the ship is redecorated, the way the ship is run is altered, the shift patterns and responsibilities of the crew are tweaked, new rules and regulations are put into place, the decks are swabbed etc, etc, etc - but the course of the ship is not altered. Some years later, a new captain and crew are elected who change everything back again, but the course of the ship is still not altered. This is the politics of distraction.

Wow, I love it! Again, well put, Shark  :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 April, 2010, 09:55:25 pm
I think you are too.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 12 April, 2010, 10:57:02 pm
Thanks, Hoo! I am liking for my explainings to clearly be, and understood with ease.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 12 April, 2010, 11:21:17 pm
I keep checking back on this thread, expecting it to have degenerated into childish squabbling and vicious personal attacks. But... nothing.

Must try harder, people.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 12 April, 2010, 11:39:39 pm
Get stuffed.












 :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 12 April, 2010, 11:51:48 pm
I wouldn't want to abolish any Nation State. National Sovereignty is up to the populace of a country and not to be dictated by others. Once one Nation State, or a group thereof, begins interfering in the affairs of others we arrive at Iraq. Whether a country wants open borders or not is up to that country, irrespective of whether they print their own money or not.


It just doesnt make any sense to me to give up the right to self govern or hand over power/give up sovereignty to another centralised ruling body.Its even worse when you are subjegated by pro EU fifth columnists [New Labour]

I challenge anyone to make a good argument for it.

I cant think of any.

Its going to cost the UK taxpayer 650 million to help bail out Greece because of EU Collectivism.

This a good idea anyone ?

This is just one example.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 13 April, 2010, 07:58:40 am
It just doesnt make any sense to me to give up the right to self govern or hand over power/give up sovereignty to another centralised ruling body.

When you've got two commentators advocating the opening of boarders in the name of anarchism, in a world where immigration isn't a problem because every country's economy has been fixed, we're not talking about giving up sovereignty to a centralised ruling body, we're talking about the voluntary dissolution of government.

I wouldn't want to abolish any Nation State. National Sovereignty is up to the populace of a country and not to be dictated by others. Whether a country wants open borders or not is up to that country, irrespective of whether they print their own money or not.

I don't know how you would maintain the existence of a nation state with no borders and no government. I think the country that adopts anarchist principles of government will soon be at numerous kinds of disadvantage relative to its neighbours and would soon find itself annexed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 13 April, 2010, 10:05:58 am
This is indeed a very interesting thread. Here are some thoughts.


The arguments about immigration should be based on economics and numbers only which they are.


Immigration based on economics only? Bollocks! So you would put money before principles then? How about slavery then? Let's bring back serfdom. How about keeping the poor poor? Let's just farm a workforce, a la brave new world. It would be good for the economy. Money is not our reason for being, it is just a mechanism for trade.
I have no problems with people coming to this country, so long as they become us and support us, believe in what we believe in and add to the life of this nation. If they want to come here and be themselves and set up their own churches, communities etc. Then they can fuck off! Immigrants, yes. Colonists, no.
Numbers! I have no children, I have no desire for them, but I still care about my country even after my death. Unlimited immigration will only lead to this country being very, very overcrowded. It already is in my opinion. What do you want, your descendents to live in Mega-city UK, or a clean and calm country where people can enjoy the wonderous natural landscape of these treasured isles? Do you want your descendents to wait in line for their meagre weekly ration of soylent red, white and blue, or a place where everyone can have a free and healthy life without want?

I think alot of people know that I'm Scottish and that I believe in an independant Scottish state. Yup, I'm an SNP voter. Though I don't agree with all their policies, I still vote for them. They are by and large a bunch of pinko lefty liberals who try and massage the cocks of public opinion and political correctness (like every other party it seems). However, for me they do offer the best avenue for my own political beliefs. ie an independant Scotland.
Whatever everyone does. Vote. An imperfect choice is better than no choice at all.

Rant over. :)

I really shouldn't read stuff about politics and opinion, it sets me off! My wife has already banned me from watching the news on the telly. I have no idea why! :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 April, 2010, 11:12:53 am
It just doesnt make any sense to me to give up the right to self govern or hand over power/give up sovereignty to another centralised ruling body.

When you've got two commentators advocating the opening of boarders in the name of anarchism, in a world where immigration isn't a problem because every country's economy has been fixed, we're not talking about giving up sovereignty to a centralised ruling body, we're talking about the voluntary dissolution of government.





My comment was about handing over power to the EU and not in reply to anyone elses comments.I quoted LS but i wasnt replying to it.I quoted it simply because he was talking about nation states and i agreed with what he said.

No worries though as the EU cant even answer that question themselves beyond saying that it makes the EU more "Efficient" and "streamlined".

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 12:55:07 pm
I have no problems with people coming to this country, so long as they become us and support us, believe in what we believe in and add to the life of this nation. If they want to come here and be themselves and set up their own churches, communities etc. Then they can fuck off! Immigrants, yes. Colonists, no.

I have a big problem with that statement - it suggests a kind of protectionism which I think breeds contempt and often leads to civil unrest. People being allowed to conduct their lives the way they wish, whether at home or abroad, is part of a solution to me as opposed to part of a problem.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 13 April, 2010, 01:01:08 pm
I have no problems with people coming to this country, so long as they become us and support us, believe in what we believe in and add to the life of this nation. If they want to come here and be themselves and set up their own churches, communities etc. Then they can fuck off!
:o
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 13 April, 2010, 01:05:22 pm
Humanity belongs to the world, the world doesn't belong to humanity.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 13 April, 2010, 01:16:37 pm
Quote from: Colin MacNeil
I have no problems with people coming to this country, so long as they become us and support us, believe in what we believe in and add to the life of this nation. If they want to come here and be themselves and set up their own churches, communities etc. Then they can fuck off! Immigrants, yes. Colonists, no.

Colin - you're one of my all-time 2000AD heroes but I can't agree with that, sorry. I live in Birmingham which is very multi-cultural and wish things were even more integrated here than they already are, but don't begrudge each community their own way of doing things.

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 13 April, 2010, 01:27:50 pm
Got this in my email today, which raised a slight smile:

CHOICES........................

While walking down the street one day a "Member of Parliament" is tragically hit by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the  entrance.

'Welcome to heaven,' says St. Peter.. 'Before you settle in,  it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you.'

'No problem, just let me in,' says the man.

'Well, I'd like to, but I  have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.'

'Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,'  says the MP.

'I'm sorry, but we have our rules.'

And with  that, St. Peter  escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down  to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green  golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it  are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with  him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had  while getting rich at the expense of the people.

They play a  friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and  champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly & nice guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises....

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.

'Now it's time  to visit heaven.'

So, 24 hours pass with the MP joining a group  of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing.  They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by  and St. Peter returns.

'Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and  another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.'

The MP reflects for a minute, then he answers: 'Well, I would never have said it  before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but  I think I would be better off  in hell.'

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down,  down, down to hell.

Now the doors of  the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with  waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his  shoulder. 'I don't understand,' stammers the MP. 'Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time.. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable.


    What happened?'

    The devil looks at him, smiles and says, 'Yesterday we were campaigning... ...


    Today you voted.'
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 April, 2010, 01:49:56 pm
I agree with both Colin McNeill and HOO-HAA .

Everyone should be able to live the way they like in principle but you do get problems with ex-pat communities who set up in other countries yet they make no effort to integrate into the countries they have emmigrated into like all English in Spain for example.Theres no law against doing that but it creates bad feeling among the indigenous people.Communities that dont integrate cause bad feeling.

Thats what seems to be the main problem.Having said that if they dont want to integrate then no one is forcing them to and its not the be all and end all of life but the line has to be drawn when an immigrant population start to impose their will on the host nation and thats unnacceptable in my mind.Its hypocritical as well becaise i couldnt very well start imposing my will in certain countries i wont mention by name because they wouldnt tolerate it.

Shariah law in the UK should be out of the question and if Muslims decide to live in the UK then they should realise that the UK is not a Muslim country before they choose to live here.Saying or thinking otherwise is just plain stupid.Tolerance and religious freedom\freedom of expression should be enough for *anyone* but there are always going to be some that want more than that and if you give them an inch they will take a mile if they think that they can get away with it and its human nature for some [usually a minority - no not that kind of minority] to abuse the generosity and tolerance of others.

Think of this messageboard as a community and how everyone integrates and is tolerant of others and their views or whatever.What happens if myself or anyone else decides that they dont like this messageboard because of this or that and they decided that they wanted to change its content ?

There is too much talk all about Judge Dredd for example so i decide that i have had enough of it and decide to rant about it or loudly protest about it ?

Whats going to happen then ?

Its 100 percent certain that i would be told to fuck right off if i didnt like it and its the same thing as choosing to move to another country and then ranting and raving about it for whatever reason.The choice is theirs to either stay or leave.


This is indeed a very interesting thread. Here are some thoughts.


The arguments about immigration should be based on economics and numbers only which they are.


Immigration based on economics only? Bollocks! So you would put money before principles then? How about slavery then? Let's bring back serfdom. How about keeping the poor poor? Let's just farm a workforce, a la brave new world. It would be good for the economy. Money is not our reason for being, it is just a mechanism for trade.


What i meant by "Economics" was having immigration quotas that are linked to the economic situation in a country.I guess economics was the wrong choice of word but if you chose to emmigrate to Australia for example or Canada they have a points system and its related to skills and skills shortages and there is a direct relation with that to the economy and what you can contribute to it.Thats not what i think but its how it is.

The poor are kept poor regardless.Banksters and the rest of the criminals see to that.We are all slaves or chattel anyway and that much is fact.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 13 April, 2010, 02:37:40 pm
Well, I have certainly seemed to stir things up!
I make no apologies for my views, it comes from the views of my culture. I am in my mid forties, my father was in his forties when I was born, his father was in his thirties when he was born. My upbringing was, in a sense, in the pre modern enlightenment way. I have VERY old fashioned views. I have spoken to many diverse people in Scotland and the vast majority generally agree with me, at least those in their 40's/50's and over. The older they are the more similar the views.
I grew up in a time and place where it was considered "multi-cultural" if both Catholics and Protestants lived on the same street, or even if someone from Glasgow or Edinburgh lived there.
It may sound strange to you younger folk, or to those who do live amongst many communities, but that is how my life/culture was then.
It was also my culture to look down on the poor, the homosexual, the aetheist etc. Those things have changed thankfully, but at least that was a move from within my own culture. All cultures change, some die out, some stamped out. I guess what I'm trying to saw is let's see where "our" culture will take us, not the homogenous culture of global multi-culturism, where wherever you go you get the same thing again and again.
 This country has suffered terribly in the last century, from the loss of an entire generation in the First World War where the hearts of entire communities were litterally wiped out in Scotland. To the wiping out of the hopes and stability of entire communities with the destruction of the old industries, coal, ship building and steel making in the eighties.

We do need immigrants to come here, to help with the rich diversity of our gene pool, to bring new ideas and ways of doing stuff. But not at the cost at what our ancestors struggled and died for.
In the very early nineties I considered moving to London to help progress my career, but I decided not to because I wanted to remain Scottish. If I were to move outside Scotland then the land and people I would live with would have to have my full support, otherewise why would they have any reason to accept me. Maybe it's an old fashioned view, I don't know. All I know is that I can see my nation's culture teeter on the edge of oblivion and it makes me sad. The glens of my ancestors are all but devoid of their natives, their language, dialects and customs are all disappearing.
Maybe our culture should disappear from this earth. Maybe it's too old fashioned, too un-PC, too different to the demands of global modernisation.

Maybe multi-culturism is the future, I don't know. All I know is that I want to spend the rest of my life on this sphere here, amongst my own kin, amongst those who hold their memories dear and those who will fight and give everything for that dream that is Scotland.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 13 April, 2010, 02:47:11 pm
but don't begrudge each community their own way of doing things.

I'm genuinely about as liberal and wishy-washy PC as they come, but there is a group that flyers and flyposts my neighbourhood every local/European/General election with the single message: "Voting is a sin against Islam."

To which, I'm afraid, my response is: "Fine -- fuck off and live in an Islamic state, then."

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 13 April, 2010, 03:31:23 pm

...there is a group that flyers and flyposts my neighbourhood every local/European/General election with the single message: "Voting is a sin against Islam."

To which, I'm afraid, my response is: "Fine -- fuck off and live in an Islamic state, then."

Cheers

Jim

"The process of voting in non-Muslim democratic countries is not based on religious ideologies neither are elections won and lost on the basis of religion. As such, a candidate that stands up in an election does not promise to implement the laws of Islam or any other religion for that matter.

Normally a candidate promises the public better services and facilities. These services may also be connected to a particular religion, like promising Muslims financial assistance for the construction of Masjids, and so on.

Therefore, to vote a particular candidate or party in non-Muslim countries will be permissible and not considered a sin or Kufr. When one votes for a party, it does not necessarily mean that one agrees completely with their beliefs and ideologies, rather the intention is that the candidate (or party) will be of help to the whole community.

In light of the above, it becomes clear that to vote in itself is not something that is impermissible..." Muhammad ibn Adam, Darul Iftaa, Leicester , UK
http://www.therevival.co.uk/wp-site/270


"In some cases it is wrong to vote, such as when the matter will have no effect on the Muslims, or when the Muslims have no effect on the outcome of the vote. In this case voting or not voting is all the same. The same applies in cases where all the candidates are equally evil or where they all have the same attitude towards Muslims…

It may be the case that the interests of Islam require Muslims to vote so as to ward off the greater evil and to reduce harmful effects, such as where two candidates may be non-Muslims but one of them is less hostile towards Muslims than the other, and Muslims’ votes will have an impact on the outcome of the election. In such cases there is nothing wrong with Muslims casting their votes in favour of the less evil candidate." Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/3062


It seems to me that anyone who proclaims that "voting is a sin against Islam," is either working against Islam (third party agitators? Surely not!) or needs to understand it better. The thing is, upon seeing that slogan, how many people will even bother to check if it's true?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 13 April, 2010, 03:45:07 pm
I think most people would agree that it isn't to the benefit of anyone (the 'indigenous' population or immigrants) when ethnic groups entrench themselves.

I don't know if that has happened with some groups consciously – perhaps due to fears of children / women in particular having contact with this comparatively more liberal society, religious extremism; racism or perhaps some just couldn't relate to this society. Knowledge of the English language or lack of it no doubt would play some part. I suppose it's a combination of some of the above to some degree.

But I know immigrants who have been here for decades, still have a very limited use of English and yet have children who have studied hard, gone to university and have gone on to have very successful careers. People who are extremely high earners who have risen to the top of their chosen professions and have integrated, some marrying inside of their communities and some outside. Don't know what harm they or their parents caused anyone other than being a bit 'different'. Perhaps they didn't manage to fully integrate 100 percent but they did a good job of bringing up kids who did.

I can't understand what harm is being caused to anyone by immigrants and their descendants having their own communities and worshipping in their own churches / mosques / temples / synagogues or whatever. Should they not have freedom of religion?

I was just about to say that I don't see communities imposing their will on others and then I read Jim's comment. Beggars belief that they don't see what harm they are causing everyone by fly posting that sort of stuff.

As for disappearing culture, I do hear of misguided people such as those in councils around the country trying to bend over backwards not to offend ethnic minorities and as a result contribute to ridding this country of its heritage eg references to Christmas. I was glad to see on TV recently that other religious groups joined Christians in campaigning for councils to keep Christmas festivities and even participated in demonstrations in support. Unfortunately the misguided acts of some councils result in other religious communities taking the blame.

There was another TV series or programme a while ago which looked at the ethnic origins of people and it was surprising how many people, some with shall we say not very liberal views where found to have roots outside of these shores. Who knows how long it took their predecessors to integrate.

I am reminded by the comments of ex-England football manager Don Revie in the 70s (I think it was him) who apparently said that there were too many foreigners playing in the English league and by that he meant Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 April, 2010, 04:35:20 pm

As for disappearing culture, I do hear of misguided people such as those in councils around the country trying to bend over backwards not to offend ethnic minorities and as a result contribute to ridding this country of its heritage eg references to Christmas. I was glad to see on TV recently that other religious groups joined Christians in campaigning for councils to keep Christmas festivities and even participated in demonstrations in support. Unfortunately the misguided acts of some councils result in other religious communities taking the blame.





Thats one of the interesting things that was said in that BBC "Are Christians Being Persecuted".The meddling and misguided councils imposing their politically correct dictats which are handed down to them from central government.You must be talking about the same thing.

WTF has it got to do with the council anyway ??

 >:(

Let the communities decide for themselves if they want to celebrate Xmas and how they celebrate it.

I totally agree with you there.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 13 April, 2010, 04:51:13 pm
http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2009/12/how-to-write-christmas-is-under-attack.html
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 13 April, 2010, 05:09:00 pm
Excellent!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Pete Wells on 13 April, 2010, 05:23:47 pm
Ha, that's funny. It reminds me of my other pet peeve hysterical tabloid story:

"< Insert incarcerated killer/pedo's name here > is enjoying < insert Christmas Dinner/random pass time here > at the taxpayers' expense!"

I'm sure they have a template and just take turns sticking Huntly/Glitter/Venables in there.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 13 April, 2010, 05:31:27 pm
Stewart Lee on Political Correctness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 13 April, 2010, 05:45:04 pm
http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2009/12/how-to-write-christmas-is-under-attack.html
For years I thought these were myths about Councils and their Winterval at the expense of Christmas celebrations but that doesn't seem to be the case according to this programme:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rx7tj

I worked in an organisation where some staff it seemed were reluctant to say Merry Christmas. Quite a few where saying Happy New Year before the Xmas holidays which seemed weird (unlike Muslim staff who had no problem giving Christmas greetings). And in another company where I worked we had a long discussion about what text to put in an Xmas card we were designing. 'Season's Greetings' was wrong because it doesn't encompass all religions as it was specific to the Christian festival so we had to go with 'Seasons Greetings'. Plural, geddit? Everyone happy though only a pedant would spot that one.

And 'Happy Holidays' is not tabloid exaggeration.

True stories, folks.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 April, 2010, 05:48:22 pm
I guess what I'm trying to saw is let's see where "our" culture will take us, not the homogenous culture of global multi-culturism, where wherever you go you get the same thing again and again.
 



I totally agree with you as well.

Cultures should be allowed to evolve naturally on their own instead of being interfered with or experimented with by central govt so that they fit their own warped ideologies.Not everyone wants to live in a homogenised culture where you get the same thing over and over again and that applies to everything including race and ethnicity.

Its curious isnt it how you get all this talk of diversity with the PC brigade yet its they who want to dilute everything and homogenise everything so in that process diversity is destroyed.Its wrong because its being forced.

The people themselves should shape their own communities not govts but govts are because they allow immigration but immigration should not be because of central govt social engineering programmes.You dont build successful communities by making them conform to diversity quotas that are decided by central planning [New Labour].

Stupid Cunts.This is why i totally disagree with the destruction of nation states because you actually cant do it.They can draw new maps and call England whatever the fuck its called in the new EUROZONE but as far as i am concerned England will still be England as its not like anything has really changed beyond what EU bereaucrats are imposing on us with their dictats.The English channel is to be renamed as the Anglo-French Pond !!

Its not though as its the English fucking Channel  >:(

Its not like nations like the UK or France suddenly stop existing just because a bereaucrat redraws a map.

I am so sick :sick: and tired of the fucking One World Balloonheads and their warped ideology.

I had best stop before i go off on one .
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: LARF on 13 April, 2010, 05:50:10 pm
Around 600 years ago my ancestors on my fathers side came over here and settled from France, on the other hand my Mother's family descend from Romany Gypsies that moved to the UK around 200 years ago - so my question is, "Which country should I fuck off back to?"

The UK is a country of mixed breeds, Saxons, Romans, Vikings, French, Germans, Africans, Indians, Pakistanis, Jews, Muslims (the latter not just over the last few decades, but over the last few hundred years), not to mention the mixing of our four 'inherent' UK countries - what can we call 'True Brit?', or a 'True UK Citizen?' We're all mongrels created by Empire building, War and Invasion. This is what we should be proud of, that our heritage has made us a hardy breed immune to intolerance and hatred, not a people blind and blinkered to other cultures because all of us are made of ancestors from other cultures.

Look at the providence of your surname and your Mother's Maiden name, look at your heritage and answer whether you are truly British, Welsh, Scottish or Irish...

BTW: I think the conservatives are a complete bunch of cocks
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 13 April, 2010, 05:52:38 pm
It seems to me that anyone who proclaims that "voting is a sin against Islam," is either working against Islam (third party agitators? Surely not!) or needs to understand it better. The thing is, upon seeing that slogan, how many people will even bother to check if it's true?

It seems to me that the matter is not as cut and dried as you present -- there are a broad spectrum of interpretations of Islam and I live in an area with a very large Muslim population. There most certainly is a view within sections of the Muslim community that voting acknowledges an authority other than God and thus is explicitly prohibited by the Koran. I have no issue with people holding this view, but I do have an issue with them campaigning against democracy as a concept.

I would also point out that the second of your quotations describes voting as being the necessity of choosing the "less evil" of the candidates, which is hardly a ringing endorsement of the democratic process!

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 13 April, 2010, 05:59:44 pm
It's quite simple really

The Labour party are



THE BORG
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 13 April, 2010, 06:11:44 pm
If I were to move outside Scotland then the land and people I would live with would have to have my full support, otherewise why would they have any reason to accept me.

Why wouldn't they accept you? You're a human being the same as the rest of us. Most of us on the board live in England, I think, but it's quite clear that we don't have one idea of what it means to be English, or what it means to support the land and the people, so you living in England but supporting Scotland would be of no consequence at all.

As it is, I'm technically half Scottish, a quarter English and a quarter Welsh, but I refuse to be defined by such trivia, and I claim the right to live in every part of this island and support who and what I want to support based on my personal beliefs, rather than lines on bloody maps.

This is not to say there's anyting wrong with choosing to support a particular place - I choose support this island as a unified whole with regional variations - but I have no problem with differences adding to it. If anything, it is in-coming influences and differences that define it.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 April, 2010, 06:20:06 pm
It's quite simple really

The Labour party are



THE BORG

So is the EU or its ruling centralised govt to be more exact and not to disparage or denigrate all of its people.

Look at Poland.One of the very last countries or nation states that hadnt signed up fully to the EU and its single currency and it declined to borrow cash from the IMF loanshark Bankster mafia and it was the only EU member state/nation state within the EU whose economy had grown during 2009 and it was on the right tracks for more growth and it also hadnt gone mad with borrowing and spending like other EU member states and its leadership - Kaczinsky etc spoke out very recently about the IMF creating the conditions that required regional states to borrow from them amongst many other things.

The next thing you know is the entire political leadership of Poland has been wiped out in a plane crash.

Thats either a conspiracy and they were whacked or its just very fortunate because now Polands political leadership can be replaced by pro-EU Federalist fifth columnists/Quislings instead because thats how things work.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Trout on 13 April, 2010, 06:26:53 pm
I'm very relieved that my initial concerns proved unfounded, and this thread was in no way a bad idea.

Fucking hell.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 13 April, 2010, 06:29:47 pm
I'm with you Peter.
People laugh at conspiracies but remember that small £1,000,000+ I talked about on the Hell-Trek.
They do happen, as I was involved in that one (no not the plane crash).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 13 April, 2010, 06:34:46 pm

Vote Conservative.

Do you see what I did there.






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 13 April, 2010, 06:35:33 pm
No, what did you do ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 13 April, 2010, 06:37:23 pm
I'm very relieved that my initial concerns proved unfounded, and this thread was in no way a bad idea.

Fucking hell.

Have a little patience.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 13 April, 2010, 06:48:57 pm
Jonathan Bartley on the Nicky Campbell doc:

http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/04/05/verdict-nicky-campbells-easter-sunday-bbc-documentary-christians-persecuted/

I'm just putting that up for balance because I SURRENDER and I'm running back to the Doctor Who review thread where I belong with my tail between my legs. YOU WIN! I can't stand the political heat! Also I hate Christmas and want to replace it with LIFE DAY. (And I gotta get back to work! Sorry guys for this cowardly retreat. I'll check back in tomorrow and see how it all shook out.)

(shakes fist, boards TARDIS, enters political exile or possibly Zero Room)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 13 April, 2010, 07:21:10 pm
http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2009/12/how-to-write-christmas-is-under-attack.html

A nice article that linked to. This comment on it, from 'Culfy' really made me laugh:

Quote
I agree. Those evil PC secularists forcing everyone to change 'Christmas' to 'winter'

They've even rewritten those beautiful Christmas songs 'Walking in a Christmas Wonderland' and 'In The Bleak MidChristmas'
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 07:25:11 pm
I can express my thinking on the immigration discussion with one sentence:

'An it harm none, do what ye will.'

In my perfect world, that goes for muslims, jews, christians, satanists, wiccans, wizards, elves, traffic wardens, readers of marvel comics etc.

Me? I'm an atheist. However, I will defend another person's basic right to believe what they want, practice it how they like and gather together in communities with other like-minded people to express whatever they wish to express.

As long as it harms no one else, it's all fine by me.  

Here's another soundbite I like to throw around:

I'm pro-choice. About everything.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: LARF on 13 April, 2010, 07:40:19 pm

Vote Conservative.

Do you see what I did there.






V

Ooh, clever, I like it.

Sublibinal
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 13 April, 2010, 07:40:41 pm
I think Labour camps should be re-introduced for the great unwashed who will never do a days work in their lives. Many would get of their fat drug induced arses if this was implemented. The Polish migrants etc do the farm work bramble picking etc so why cant all the scrounging dole scum on the council estates be made to do it.
Community service doesn't count as honest work.






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 13 April, 2010, 07:49:00 pm
Elves are gits.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 13 April, 2010, 07:55:03 pm
'An it harm none, do what ye will.'

We already have proper laws like that, enforced by the police and law courts. The principle of outlawing harm is behind laws against assault, murder, drink driving and disposing of hazardous waste improperly.

Unfortunately we also have laws against possession of recreational drugs, which should be nobody's business but the user's, laws which circumscribe our right to free assembly, and laws which insist drivers have to wear a seatbelt and motorcyclists must wear a helmet because the government has decided it knows better than they do what's good for them.

I cannot support the principle of freedom of choice in everything, I'm afraid. A lot of the things we take for granted as 'culture' wouldn't be possible if everyone just did their own thing. Museums and libraries would be ransacked in short order, and the perpetrators wouldn't be hurting anybody, would they? I like the conservation of not just 'historical,' but also merely old buildings. If I lived in a 15th century cottage, why should I not be allowed to set fire to it, or knock it down, or paint it bright green, windowpanes and all? Surely I wouldn't be doing any harm; I'd just be expressing myself. But my community would be culturally the poorer for it.

A creed that is predicated upon doing whatever you like as long as it isn't harmful would need to have a much narrower conception of what constitutes harm than we do already, seeing as the law would be very short on specifics and virtually impossible to enforce. I think the world would soon come to resemble the wasteland Max Headroom used to broadcast to.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 08:12:04 pm
I think that's a myth, Usher.

The world wouldn't simply descend into chaos as soon as the government stepped aside. I would contest that, strongly. The government, of course, will encourage you to believe it, strongly.

Anarchy is what happens every day. It's the millions upon millions of voluntary actions that represent the vast, vast majority of what we call everyday life. The government put a tax on everyday life, however, introducing ever-incresing numbers of bureaus to collect the tax and spend the tax, and then feed the myth that their presence prevents everyday life descending into chaos.

Think of it this way - what do the government do that you and I and everyone else on the board couldn't do for ourselves more effectively?   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 13 April, 2010, 08:15:08 pm
Mount an invasion?

 :P

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 13 April, 2010, 08:16:02 pm
Surface the roads. I don't think my neighbours would do a very good job of it themselves.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 13 April, 2010, 08:16:30 pm
Think of it this way - what do the government do that you and I and everyone else on the board couldn't do for ourselves more effectively?   

FUCK UP!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 13 April, 2010, 08:33:52 pm
I think Labour camps should be re-introduced for the great unwashed who will never do a days work in their lives.

Labour camps! Take two bottles of Zyclon B into the shower? Couldn't I be sent to a Liberal or Green Party camp instead, they sound so much nicer. :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 08:34:12 pm
Mount an invasion?

 :P

M.

hahah!  :lol:

Surface the roads. I don't think my neighbours would do a very good job of it themselves.

Yeah, but could a private company or a not-for-profit company or a communal collective not work out some way forward there (excuse the pun)?

FUCK UP!
 

Sorry?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Paul faplad Finch on 13 April, 2010, 08:46:44 pm
Think of it this way - what do the government do that you and I and everyone else on the board couldn't do for ourselves more effectively?

Surface the roads. I don't think my neighbours would do a very good job of it themselves.


Beware. Ill-informed knee jerk response ahead.

I reckon that, as Usher quite rightly points out, there are many things done by the Government that are largely unnoticed. At least until they aren't getting done anymore. Refuse Collection? Free public lending libraries? Primary and Secondary education for all? The list goes on.

I will however agree that there may be a case for saying the Government meddles a little to closely in the minutae of our lives. This is a problem that seems only to be getting worse as time goes on.  I simply think that, in my opinion, a middle ground needs to be found. Anarchy is not the answer.

Will this middle ground be found anytime soon? I doubt it. Not until we get some politicians who understandd that they are elected to serve the population, not Rule it, and given the options available to us, we aint getting them this time around.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 09:22:42 pm
I will however agree that there may be a case for saying the Government meddles a little to closely in the minutae of our lives. This is a problem that seems only to be getting worse as time goes on.  I simply think that, in my opinion, a middle ground needs to be found. Anarchy is not the answer.

Will this middle ground be found anytime soon? I doubt it. Not until we get some politicians who understandd that they are elected to serve the population, not Rule it, and given the options available to us, we aint getting them this time around.

I appreciate what you're saying, faplad. However, from my perspective, the system of organised politics is fundamentally and terminally flawed - it's not about getting the right man/ woman for the job.

I refer you back to Shark's metaphor of the ship, earlier in the thread...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 09:35:01 pm
But, I must add... on reflection, it seems like I'm coming across like an evangelist for anarchy. That's not my intention - it's my POV, but I feel no need to shove it down any other throats. In fact, way I see it, the more ideas on the table the better.

This has been a great thread with some wonderful debate. I've had a great time trading POVs with everyone but I might step back a little and see what others think.

Oh, and Shark... you da man.  :D

 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 13 April, 2010, 09:41:07 pm
All I care about is fast food: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVLEB0lv1rw


Do you see?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Paul faplad Finch on 13 April, 2010, 09:47:49 pm
This has been a great thread with some wonderful debate.

Indeed. I was a little worried that it could degenerate into a slanging match, which is why I waited as long as I did before joining it. Proof once again that this is the most civilised place on the web.

Still, plenty of time yet.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 09:53:54 pm
Still, plenty of time yet.

Maybe we should continue the debate... with alcohol...

 :-\
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 13 April, 2010, 09:54:15 pm
If you did away with the government tomorrow and replaced that with the rule of anarchy, you get an anarchist library with no membership cards, no fines and no reminders, just 'bring it back when you're done with it.' Within a week all the Jeffrey Archer novels go on the bonfire because... ah, never mind - I hear he's litigious. Within a year all the books have been burned because there's no gas for central heating and we've got to keep warm. After a while the anarchist press starts producing its own new books to replace the old ones. Some are typo-filled facsimiles of old books that still exist in a few private collections or are occasionally rescued from the town dump, and others are new products of the anarchist society and become a popular replacement for proper literature.

Society finds that it can run its own affairs quite well without an elected executive telling it what to do. Eventually some people emerge as being really good at planning and organizing and getting things done, and they get put in charge of service provision and by no means everybody is happy about it. Within a few decades the new society has evolved its own bureaucracy led by publicly elected officials. If the people are lucky they get to vote for the members of the newly-emerged politburo every 5 years. If they're unlucky, the executive get jobs for life, in their gift, to pass on to their own decendants.


For some reason I keep picturing scenes from Dr. Zhivago.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 April, 2010, 09:56:58 pm
I will however agree that there may be a case for saying the Government meddles a little to closely in the minutae of our lives. This is a problem that seems only to be getting worse as time goes on.  I simply think that, in my opinion, a middle ground needs to be found. Anarchy is not the answer.

Will this middle ground be found anytime soon? I doubt it. Not until we get some politicians who understandd that they are elected to serve the population, not Rule it, and given the options available to us, we aint getting them this time around.

I appreciate what you're saying, faplad. However, from my perspective, the system of organised politics is fundamentally and terminally flawed - it's not about getting the right man/ woman for the job.

I refer you back to Shark's metaphor of the ship, earlier in the thread...

[I have had a couple of drinks so i hope i am not rambling or typing too much...]

In my opinion it has never had an opportunity to really prove itself because it has been hijacked by criminal and sociopathic forces right from the word go so  therefore it cant be written off as being unviable.

To understand why i say this you have to understand WHY things are the way they are at present.

I can understand why yourself or anyone else will come to this conclusion if things are taken at face value but its not seeing the whole picture.Its terminally flawed from our perspective but thats because the system has been hijacked and its a sham and i dont have the time or the inclination to type 10,000 or 20,000 words explaining this but i could.

The problem with organised politics has been correctly identified and it is being dealt with.

I believe in the institution of govt in principle if its constitutional and represents the interests of the people and not power elites who control everything from behind the scenes.

I believe in the rule of law and by that i mean common law but i disregard a lot of legislation/ corporate law.

Getting rid of all the NWO/global governance freaks and the Rockerfeller/Rothschild filth and all the rest of them and all of those Club Of Rome/Bilderberg and all of that shadow govt and all of their institutions who are behind all of the problems we face today is the only viable solution to having any kind of future otherwise we will all end up living in a high tech tyrannical feudal system and a cultural/political dystopia of averageness and mankind will never reach its full potential.

Are things getting any better as we get older ?

No they are not as they are getting worse.Everytime we have an election the majority of people have this vague idea that things might improve with a newly elected govt but everytime this doesnt happen and this is because the vast majority havent identified what the problem is.

So if you dont know what the problem is then how can you fix it ?

You cant fix something unless you understand how it works.

Simple common sense.

I already know what the future is if we dont do something about it but the future is not set.

People need to learn about and understand what makes the world go round before they are able to advocate solutions.

I am not trying to disparage your views at all but i am with HOU on this one and Faplad.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 13 April, 2010, 09:59:11 pm
Still, plenty of time yet.

Maybe we should continue the debate... with alcohol...

 :-\

Are you a mind reader as well hoo-Haa, (or is my web cam still on?) I just opened myself a bottle of beer.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 13 April, 2010, 10:03:34 pm
I myself head a 'Princeton' with dinner: gin, port and orange bitters!  :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 13 April, 2010, 10:06:03 pm
Here's an idea for everyone. Conscription politics!
Instead of mainly (though not all) self serving "elected" politicians, why not a national lottery akin to jury service where people are conscripted to political office.
Imagine the scene. You pick up your post one morning and...
"Bugger! I'm the chancellor of the exchequer!"
A half-way house between anarchy and "regular" politics?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 13 April, 2010, 10:19:48 pm
Here's an idea for everyone. Conscription politics!
Instead of mainly (though not all) self serving "elected" politicians, why not a national lottery akin to jury service where people are conscripted to political office.
Imagine the scene. You pick up your post one morning and...
"Bugger! I'm the chancellor of the exchequer!"
A half-way house between anarchy and "regular" politics?

hahahah! Brilliant, I love it! :lol:

And pity the poor Scotsman as he opens his mail, one sleepy-eyed morning, to discover he's Northern Ireland's Home Secretary!

ARGH!  :'(

 :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 13 April, 2010, 10:46:13 pm
Here's an idea for everyone. Conscription politics!
Instead of mainly (though not all) self serving "elected" politicians, why not a national lottery akin to jury service where people are conscripted to political office.
Imagine the scene. You pick up your post one morning and...
"Bugger! I'm the chancellor of the exchequer!"
A half-way house between anarchy and "regular" politics?


That's a brilliant idea Colin!

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 13 April, 2010, 11:20:48 pm
My solution is that you can join a queue for any position and when it's your turn you get the job no matter how unqualified you are.

However when you are in the job, all the other people in the queue are in a meta-queue to fuck you in the ass bareback. You get to keep the job for as long as you can tolerate being fucked in the ass multiple times a day.

Now aside from the bareback rule it is entirely up to the related parties how they want to deal with things. The incumbent could stop wiping his ass so that his poo goes inside of his opponents body after it travels through the bell end, but does he really want so many fecal blood clots on his conscience? Sure, the fucker can spend all day fucking the incumbent so that he can't buy new schoolteachers, but what happens when HIS child wants to hire more staff?




Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 14 April, 2010, 12:07:05 am
Here's an idea for everyone. Conscription politics!
Instead of mainly (though not all) self serving "elected" politicians, why not a national lottery akin to jury service where people are conscripted to political office.
Imagine the scene. You pick up your post one morning and...
"Bugger! I'm the chancellor of the exchequer!"
A half-way house between anarchy and "regular" politics?


You must have read Solar Lottery by P.K. Dick.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Emperor on 14 April, 2010, 12:22:32 am
Here's an idea for everyone. Conscription politics!
Instead of mainly (though not all) self serving "elected" politicians, why not a national lottery akin to jury service where people are conscripted to political office.
Imagine the scene. You pick up your post one morning and...
"Bugger! I'm the chancellor of the exchequer!"
A half-way house between anarchy and "regular" politics?

You must have read Solar Lottery by P.K. Dick.

I think the President of Earth in Legion of Super-Heroes is decided by a big computer, possibly at random but perhaps screening people out for anti-social tendencies (like actually wanting to be a politician). Ah the future, where they have somehow managed to eliminate hacking.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 14 April, 2010, 12:31:45 am
They will never eliminate fucking though.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 14 April, 2010, 12:34:28 am
Down, boy.



I remember Armando Ianucci did an amusing skit where a trio of elderly women were reminiscing about the war, and they all had to take a turn in Churchill's wartime cabinet as their contribution to the war effort.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dudley on 14 April, 2010, 09:48:28 am
http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ is a great site that enables you to choose between the parties by a direct blind comparison of policies.  No personalities, no marketing, just the actual promises.

Really useful for me - I'm 45% Green, 22% Labour, which I'd have guessed, but I'd never have thought I'd side with the Tories in 2 major policy areas.  Still, thank goodness I am 100% free of BNP/UKIP sympathies.  Sadly, it doesn't include the major nationalist parties or Northern Irish parties yet.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 14 April, 2010, 11:15:28 am
I've bought myself a new 10 foot pole, specifically so I can NOT touch this thread with it.

Has anyone made a Hiltler comparison yet?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 14 April, 2010, 11:40:26 am
I've bought myself a new 10 foot pole, specifically so I can NOT touch this thread with it.

Fascist!

Quote
Has anyone made a Hiltler comparison yet?

Will that one do?

Cheers!

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 14 April, 2010, 11:49:58 am
Great find, Dudley - I'd recommend that to anyone. Turns out I'm mostly Green Party with leanings towards the Lib Dems, which is making me think a little about which of the two I should vote for.

The one shurely shome mishtake? moment was finding out that I agree with Labour on crime, which is strange because Labour's policy of creating new and ever more draconian laws whenever the wind changes is one of the reasons I've come to despise them. Oddly the policy didn't mention this little quirk and instead seemed to focus on more accountability for the police, unless I accidentally missed the part about expanding thoughtcrime legislation.

I think for fairness the Labour policy statement should include things like "We plan to create a legal system where you can get five years in 'the hole' for looking sideways at a public building while thinking about porn" and "We're changing the name of the country to 'Strangeways' so we can lock you all up at once, you naughty naughty people" to reflect the policies they've ruled by for the last far-too-many years.

Apart from that, great site. Fun spotting the BNP policies which are all totally insane and revolve around getting rid of THOSE PEOPLE as a universal panacaea for all our ills. Not so much fun seeing that 9% of visitors seem to respond strongly to their freaky Hitler-speak. (God DAMMIT Jim got there first.)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 14 April, 2010, 11:53:13 am
Actually looking at that Labour crime policy again I think I must have just clicked on the wrong one by mistake. It's nutty. Can I have a do-over?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 14 April, 2010, 12:00:35 pm
http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ is a great site that enables you to choose between the parties by a direct blind comparison of policies.  No personalities, no marketing, just the actual promises.

20% Lib Dem; 60% Green; 20% Labour. Told you I was a wishy-washy PC liberal type ...

Cheers!

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 14 April, 2010, 12:02:50 pm
Apart from that, great site. Fun spotting the BNP policies which are all totally insane and revolve around getting rid of THOSE PEOPLE as a universal panacaea for all our ills.

Heh. I particularly liked the one where the root cause of all environmental problems is over-population which is caused by immigrants ...

Cheers!

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 14 April, 2010, 12:05:39 pm
I'm a quarter UKIP and half Lib Dem.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 14 April, 2010, 12:10:22 pm
I've bought myself a new 10 foot pole

You see? There's facilitators of illegal immigration on this very board!. I really hope he's worth the destruction of this country's values, health care and environment. Tsk! I suppose you want a free house to put him in,and next thing his family'll be over.Have you seen what they eat? You couldn't make it up! I'm not racist but...

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 14 April, 2010, 12:38:47 pm
… and "they get flash cars and what do we get? Nothing!"
– as I once heard.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 14 April, 2010, 12:54:55 pm
… and "they get flash cars and what do we get? Nothing!"
– as I once heard.

"What's the government doing? Nothing! It's a fucking disgrace!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Jo4JQIQro)

:-)

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Albion on 14 April, 2010, 01:58:24 pm
I was surprised by my results.
50% Conservative, 25% Green, 25% Labour.

Before taking the test I'd have expected to see some Lid Dem in my results but there was none.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 14 April, 2010, 02:09:11 pm
My solution is that you can join a queue for any position and when it's your turn you get the job no matter how unqualified you are.
However when you are in the job, all the other people in the queue are in a meta-queue to fuck you in the ass bareback. You get to keep the job for as long as you can tolerate being fucked in the ass multiple times a day.

As I understand from talking to its employees, this is the very contract offered by the Irish Civil Service.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 April, 2010, 02:22:15 pm
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here's my view on the situation.

In order to raise money, the Government sells bonds. A bond is really nothing more than an I.O.U. which is worth more than you pay for it. For example, you may purchase a £1,000 bond for which you will be paid £1,100 when the time comes to sell it back to the government. All well and good so far.

Once the government has sold the bonds, it has enough money to pay for itself, to pay for hospitals and roads and jails and all the other things governments must pay for. It all sounds innocent enough so far.

Then comes the time for honouring the bond promise and paying you back your £1,100. In order to do this, the government issues more bonds to raise the money to do so. It also needs to issue and sell even more bonds because as well as paying bond holders (mainly banks and similar financial institutions) it also must continue paying for all the other stuff governments need to pay for.

As you can see, the more bonds the government issues, the more bonds it needs to issue in a vicious circle of spiralling debt - we call this "inflation." To pay back the bond holders, taxes continue to rise. Your taxes all go into paying off bond holders. Every penny.

It strikes me, then, how truly abominable it is for the government to be bailing out the banks. To bail out the banks, the government needs to issue bonds to sell to the banks in order to raise money to give to the banks to help them out. Work that one out.

Of course, none of the money I've been talking about so far is real. It's all just created out of nothing - mere numbers on a screen. We are all, however, expected to pay real money into the system in order to pay off this unreal debt. This is how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it's a hideous system and I don't know why more people aren't up in arms about it.

The solution is simple. If a government can print bonds, then it can print money. If a government issued money instead of bonds, that money would be spent into society rather than lent into society. There would be nobody to pay back, no interest to find, no bankers with a stranglehold on our government. Taxes would fall dramatically for everyone and the standard of living for all would rise in equal measure. It would not cure all a society's ills, granted, but it would go a long way towards giving everyone a fair society and a decent standard of living.

Why do our politicians not remedy this situation?

Well, if you're one of the bankers who owns shares in the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England or any other of the central banks (such as a Rothschild, Schiff, Morgan etc), then you're going to be rich. I'm talking properly rich. Bill Gates isn't rich compared to these guys, he's just wealthy. When you have trillions of dollars in your bank (having used some of it to buy up as much of the world's gold, land, water and industry as you can) what could you not achieve? Say you have a promising young politician who's sympathetic to your business, you can fund him like mad. If, on the other hand, you have a promising young politician who's against you, then it's easy to destroy him with ruthless efficiency.

This is the main reason why our democracy is a sham. I am certain that most politicians begin their political careers actually wanting to do some good for the country, but once they find themselves inside the system they can't do much about it. If they try to do something about it they can soon be stopped by a 'phone call to a reporter alleging sexual misconduct, for example. If you're JFK (who himself tried to take the US out of the Federal Reserve's stranglehold by issuing government printed US Dollars backed by silver reserves), well...

I believe that we have to work together with our politicians to reclaim our parliament from the bankers and corporations who have hijacked it so ruthlessly. To simply blame the system of government or the politicians we have ended up with is too simplistic and presents a danger that we may be tempted to throw out the baby with the bathwater. It is our fault too for not keeping a close enough eye on how things are working.

The idea from earlier in this thread about a jury-type arrangement is a good one, but I think that your "Parliamentary Service" should consist of a constantly changing bunch of randomly chosen civilians being ever present in ministerial meetings to ask questions, make suggestions and even vote on the things our politicians are trying to do. Oversight, I suppose would be the idea I'm wandering after on this one. I'd also like to see independent reporters assigned to every ministry and department, probably on a rotating schedule.

The government doesn't need smashing - it needs rescuing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Professor Bear on 14 April, 2010, 02:29:30 pm
Worryingly, I seem to agree with the Conservatives (22.22%) on health and education, but otherwise I seem to have a straight flush of agreement with the gay communists of the Green Party (77.78%).

And for a blind test, it's rather easy to spot BNP policies, I thought.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 14 April, 2010, 02:43:23 pm
That 'vote for policies' website is a great idea - some of them were difficult to choose between two options, and if I took it again I may end up with different percentages, but apparently I'm 55.56% green, 33.33% lib dem and 11.11% labour, which is kind of what I was expecting. In the past I would have been almost fully labour, but Nu-Labour (or Tory-lite) put an end to that.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Tiplodocus on 14 April, 2010, 03:10:22 pm
11% Labour (crime), 11% Liberal Democrat (Europe) and 78% Green (everything else).

Fucking Hell, I'm a tree hugging hippy.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 14 April, 2010, 03:40:01 pm
Democracy = UKIP

Europe = UKIP

Immigration = Conservatives

Economy = Labour

God knows how or why i chose Labour economic policy.

UKIP = 50 percent

Conservative = 25 percent

Labour = 25 percent


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 14 April, 2010, 05:20:36 pm
Didn't realise that I'm a Greenie 44%, with Lib Dem 33% and Labour 22%. That does surprise me. I found that difficult and I would like to revisit my choices. Definitely makes me want to look deeper into the policies of the parties so good website. Really gets one thinking.

Changing the subject somewhat, I have to say I'm liking the design of the Tory manifesto. Nice illustrations contrasting with the sober text. The Labour manifesto is lame and the Lib Dem's is dullo. (Could I really vote for a party with a logo that bad?)

Still no idea who I will vote for and not even sure that I will.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 14 April, 2010, 05:30:41 pm
Unfortunately we also have laws against possession of recreational drugs, which should be nobody's business but the user's, ....... and laws which insist drivers have to wear a seatbelt and motorcyclists must wear a helmet because the government has decided it knows better than they do what's good for them.

Not having those laws would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that when thing go wrong, and they do so all the time, other people and society in general are affected.

If drivers who fail to wear seatbelts, or simply speed, are willing to opt out of NHS care and go private (assuming they live, of course), then we can scrap those laws.

If all the recreational drug users used private support services when they start suffering mental health disorders, then we can scrap those laws, too.

And it's not always as simple as a government deciding what's good for us - although a degree of ideology will be involved in many instances, many laws are evidence-based, whether they seem excessive or not.

Personally, I only have a problem with laws that cause suffering, not ones that merely cause irritation or inconvenience.


Regards

Robin

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 April, 2010, 05:33:51 pm
Healthcare only for those who deserve it? I can't agree with that.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 14 April, 2010, 05:45:01 pm
Healthcare only for those who deserve it? I can't agree with that.

Who is proposing that ?

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 April, 2010, 06:35:37 pm
I was responding to this: "If drivers who fail to wear seatbelts, or simply speed, are willing to opt out of NHS care and go private (assuming they live, of course)..."

I am totally against treating people according to a non-medical opinion. "We won't treat alcoholics because they're alcoholics," "we won't treat accident victims who failed to take adequate precautions" or "we won't treat drug users because they use drugs." These sentiments are anathema to me. It's a bit like the death penalty in that if somebody dies and it's later found that they were actually innocent/wearing a seat belt after all, it's hard to put that right.

Once the Government finances are sorted out properly, as I keep banging on about, then there'll be enough money available to the NHS to banish thoughts of cost-cutting through selective treatments forever.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 14 April, 2010, 06:39:08 pm
Healthcare only for those who deserve it? I can't agree with that.

I can't either, and I certainly wasn't advocating it - my issue was with Usher's point about laws that infringe personal liberty.

The reality is that there will always be a finite pot of money to support members of the public in times of need. We can do the best we can to make sure public services use it efficiently and wisely, but at the same time the public has to accept some laws that may or may not be inconvenient are there to save that money, as well as protect us from our own stupidity and selfishness, and generally reduce suffering.

Now the right of assembly is another matter... although, sadly, it's not hard to see how that could put pressure on police budgets, because large masses of human beings do need to be managed.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 14 April, 2010, 06:53:06 pm
I am pleasantly surprised by this thread.  Carry on.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 14 April, 2010, 07:06:11 pm
I am pleasantly surprised by this thread.  Carry on.

Nazi!

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 April, 2010, 07:13:46 pm
Large masses of human beings largely manage themselves. This is not to say that we don't need laws and police, I think these things are as important to society as water and housing. The thing about police and laws are that they exist to manage extraordinary circumstances such as accidents and crime. For the most part, communities of people are perfectly capable of running their own affairs without everything turning into Mad Max.

For millions of years, humans got by without needing to be told how to live by some almighty leader. Each tribe looked after itself, kept its own laws and customs, traded and cooperated with other tribes, occasionally went to war. It's all perfectly natural and there's no great trick to it.

Today, of course, we live a lot differently and I think we've forgotten just how much of a social animal a human being is. Humans like to live in tribes, they love being part of a group and we have certain social skills hardwired into us. The truth is, if the government fell apart tomorrow, there would be some chaos, sure - but the majority of communities would remain intact. Many would most likely become stronger.

Now, if you meant that large masses of human beings in the modern world need to have their environment managed (by which I mean such things as keeping the sewers unblocked, making sure the water and food supplies are properly managed, roads and hospitals are built and there are enough ambulances and fire engines to go around etc., etc.) then I agree. This is what governments are for, to allow us all to live as closely to our own needs, beliefs and desires as possible and not, not ever, to tell us how to live beyond one or two widely accepted expectations such as not murdering or raping one another and suchlike.

To add a couple of RPM to Aleister Crowley's incredible rotating corpse, "And 'Do No Harm' shall be the whole of the Law."

Then again, I am often accused of being an unrealistic idealist so please feel free to leave me and the faeries alone to discuss our Utopia snuggled up inside this disused molehill.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 14 April, 2010, 07:41:01 pm
This is what governments are for, to allow us all to live as closely to our own needs, beliefs and desires as possible and not, not ever, to tell us how to live beyond one or two widely accepted expectations such as not murdering or raping one another and suchlike.

I have a much more cynical view of humans and history, and I think part of a government's job is to protect individuals and societies from our own worst traits, such as our ignorance, selfishness and outright stupidity. Obviously, being composed largely of humans, governments are capable of the same behaviour at times, but that's why elections are not a bad thing every now and again.

Inevitably, every government is going to do some things that some of us don't agree with, but we have to make a distinction between serious issues and inconveniences.

It's also important to recognise that while any of us can argue hypothetically over the rights and wrongs any issue under the sun, governments and politicians actually have to make some real, practical decisions. We have to hope, and demand, that they make decisions based on facts and often harsh realities, rather than political ideology, greed and selfishness. I think those three latter issues are the root causes of most of our problems.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 14 April, 2010, 07:51:34 pm
100% BNP. I'm to don my jack boots.
(http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/36991-1/SiegHeilPuppy.jpg)







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: mogzilla on 14 April, 2010, 08:14:43 pm
100% BNP. I'm to don my jack boots.
(http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/36991-1/SiegHeilPuppy.jpg)

i dont feel as bad now, i'm only 75% bnp and 25% ukip :-X







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: radiator on 14 April, 2010, 09:13:29 pm
Quote
For the most part, communities of people are perfectly capable of running their own affairs without everything turning into Mad Max.

I don't agree at all - I don't think it would take much at all for the facade of society to slip completely. I definitely subscribe to the Joker's philosophy that "when the chips are down, civilized people will eat each other".

I wish my view of humanity was as optimistic as yours!

Quote
For millions of years, humans got by without needing to be told how to live by some almighty leader. Each tribe looked after itself, kept its own laws and customs, traded and cooperated with other tribes, occasionally went to war. It's all perfectly natural and there's no great trick to it.

For millions of years we also had famine, plague, genocide, invaders, slavery, widespread superstiton, a life expectancy of 30, no healthcare, no leisure time, no means of mass transport, no internet, no xboxes. I think I'm a lot happer with the way things are now.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 April, 2010, 09:22:51 pm
Ah, but we were 'appy then...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: radiator on 14 April, 2010, 09:34:37 pm
Quote
Ah, but we were 'appy then...

The concept of 'happiness' is a modern invention, surely? I would imagine that until relatively recently life for the vast majority of people was an endless, desperate struggle to simply scrabble together enough food to survive, interspersed with periods of literally unimaginable horror and suffering.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 April, 2010, 09:44:04 pm
I wouldn't be too sure. Once you've mastered fire you can pretty much sleep in a tree all day like those sex-maniac monkeys.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 14 April, 2010, 09:55:39 pm
I was surprised by my results.
50% Conservative, 25% Green, 25% Labour.

Before taking the test I'd have expected to see some Lid Dem in my results but there was none.

Quoth Lembit Opik: "Have you got any LibDem in you? D'you want some?  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 14 April, 2010, 10:01:34 pm
Quote
Ah, but we were 'appy then...

The concept of 'happiness' is a modern invention, surely? I would imagine that until relatively recently life for the vast majority of people was an endless, desperate struggle to simply scrabble together enough food to survive, interspersed with periods of literally unimaginable horror and suffering.

Ah... You've had tea with my in-laws then?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 14 April, 2010, 10:02:55 pm
11% Labour (crime), 11% Liberal Democrat (Europe) and 78% Green (everything else).

Fucking Hell, I'm a tree hugging hippy.


Just think what you could all accomplish together if you all started voting accordingly.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SuperSurfer on 14 April, 2010, 10:10:31 pm
Quoth Lembit Opik: "Have you got any LibDem in you? D'you want some?  ;)
Who's a cheeky boy!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 14 April, 2010, 10:10:59 pm
UKIP are by far the best option for the economy because they propose to axe all of the quangos that have been set up by New Labour and stop the taxpayer funding the private sector through what is known as the Third Sector.

Not only that they would exit the UK from the EU and save the taxpayer up to 120 billion a year.

None of the main 3 parties are prepared to do this as they would prefer to cut public services instead while they continue to fund the Third Sector.They would also cut Public Sector non-jobs as well.Of course this will create more unemployment by default as the Third Sector trough-feeders will have no other form of generating income for themselves in the short term and its the same with Public Sector non-jobs so they cost the taxpayer when they are feeding off them and they will still be feeding off the taxpayer when they are unemployed so you cant really win here at all in terms of saving money in the short term until they can generate their own income within the private sector which is what everyone else has to do who doesnt work in the public sector.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument that is for unelected quangos etc but i am all ears.........

None of the main 3 parties outline any policies to deal with the criminality within the banking sector or the BOE so its business as usual in that respect so all we have to look forward to with them is the dismal interest rates paid by banks to savers and no end to the taxpayer footing the bill/shovelling cash for the excesses and mistakes and criminality within the banking and financial sector.

I quote conservatives : "We will restore the banks historic role in monitoring the overall growth of credit and debt in the economy "

Yes of course you will and its not like they have stopped doing that under New Labour.

I am sure that they will continue to expand and contract the money supply/the economy as that is their historic role.This is an outline proposal but i havent gone into it in any detail so i dont know if the conservatives have expanded upon this beyond what i have quoted from their election manifesto.

"We need to change the way we regulate our banks to stop a crisis on this scale ever happening again"

Again i dont know what this means in detail so it could mean anything or it could mean we wont do anything about it.Saying "We need" to do something is not the same as "We will do something" and anyway govts dont dictate banking policy as its the BOE who are affiliated to the FED in the US who are owned and control by Rothschilds etc who dictate banking regulations and everything else to do with the financial sector and i might as well point out to everyone that Bilderberg who David Cameron is affiliated to have already stated that it is their intention to keep the economy in contraction for at least another 12 months.

They also state that : "WE will put the BOE in charge of prudential supervision"

They already are.

Thats all for now.

Thats an outline of their policy.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 14 April, 2010, 10:16:20 pm
For millions of years we also had famine, plague, genocide, invaders, slavery, widespread superstiton, a life expectancy of 30, no healthcare, no leisure time, no means of mass transport, no internet, no xboxes. I think I'm a lot happer with the way things are now.

That was the answer. I'm guessing the question was "what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Tiplodocus on 15 April, 2010, 01:05:34 pm
I do recall reading once that when man was in his hunter/gatherer phase, he only had to work about twenty hours a week to provide food and shelter etc. for him and his family.

I'd be willing to add another five onto that to pay for games, television and cinema.

Sadly the extra fifteen hours is probably just tax and insurance.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 15 April, 2010, 03:26:14 pm
"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power."

Benito Mussolini
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 April, 2010, 03:45:11 pm
I recall now that i chose what turned out to be Labour in that survey because that outline policy said that it aimed to keep homeowners in their homes if they lose their jobs or whatever.

That seemed like a good idea.

I turned down UKIP immigration because of ONE thing and that was future immigrants shall have to prove that they can support themselves financially without recourse to the benefits system which seemed to me to a bit extreme and i disagreed with it.Its the total opposite of what happens now but if someone emmigrates to the UK and is a taxpayer then they should have access to the benefits system as and when they need it the same as the existing population who are already UK citzens have.

What happens if they lose their jobs ?

How can you discriminate like that ?

If you invite them into the country then they have a right to access the benefits system but not to exploit it of course.

This needs sorting out.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: radiator on 15 April, 2010, 03:57:32 pm
I find it very hard to decide on who to vote for as my political beliefs are quite contradictory - most of my views are very leftist, but on some issues are very right wing. I don't slot neatly into any one party.

I think my survey results support this - 66% Green, 22% Tory and 11% Liberal.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 15 April, 2010, 04:11:45 pm
Ask your candidates if they're going to continue letting the government raise money based on debt by selling bonds, or allow them to print their own debt-free money. If they want to keep things as they are, don't vote for them.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 April, 2010, 04:26:01 pm
Ask your candidates if they're going to continue letting the government raise money based on debt by selling bonds, or allow them to print their own debt-free money. If they want to keep things as they are, don't vote for them.


Rothschilds invest in Govt bonds.

I think David Cameron is a career politician and a fraud and he is the next chosen PM but its not guaranteeed because of the popularity of the independent parties which is why the mainstream media are totally ignoring them which is really all they can do to divert attention away from them because the mainstream media just perpetuate what is now known as the left/right paradigm which is an illusion of choice when they are two sides of the same coin which is where the saying "No matter who you vote for the govt always gets in" originates from.

There was David Cameron today saying that Gordon is a genius and that type of thing.

Get Fucking real.He is supposed to the opposition but he is just playing the career politician game and he knows the score and who is really in control.

We have paper voting but that can easily be fiddled.

I dont reckon that UKIP would win this election at all because i think that will be Conservatives and if that happens we will be having exactly the same conversation we are having now in 5 years time and so the cycle continues............................
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 15 April, 2010, 04:29:45 pm
I like this bit:

don't vote for them.

 ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 15 April, 2010, 04:33:31 pm
We have paper voting but that can easily be fiddled.

Not as easily as computer voting.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 15 April, 2010, 05:24:22 pm
I just came across the phrase "the managed decline of developed nations." Neat idea for a story, I thought. Then I looked around...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Daveycandlish on 15 April, 2010, 06:28:24 pm
So who's watchin the mass debate tonight? (and yes I meant that)

Me? Think I'll catch up on last fridays Ashes to Ashes...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 15 April, 2010, 06:44:58 pm
Here's a very interesting tale, and I thought I'd share it as a lesson, even though I was trying to steer clear of this thread.

I decided to do the "voteforpolicies" test for a laugh to see what kind of mix I would end up with.

I didn't read the "further policies" on any party, in any section.

I went through the test in about 10 minutes, tops.

I got bored trying to decipher some parts of it and I confess my mind was drifting to 'putting the kettle on'. To highlight this, I have rather a short attention span if I suspect things are being explained in an overly complicated manner, when a more coherent method is easily available)

I came out with a 33% leaning towards the policies of the fucking BNP.

This makes me sick, quite frankly. Without paying enough attention, entirely my own fault, I have partially agreed with a legalised bunch of racists.

The moral of this story is READ THE SMALL PRINT. For God's sake, vote at the election. If you don't, you have no right to complain later. Vote for whatever it is that you genuinely believe in. But make damn sure you know exactly who you're supporting and exactly what it is you're signing up for, not just the headline policies.

The devil is indeed in the detail.

I'm off to wash my soul in soapy water.

(In other news I was 33% Green, and then 11% Tory, Labour and Liberal)



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 15 April, 2010, 07:13:19 pm
(In other news I was 33% Green, and then 11% Tory, Labour and Liberal)

So basically, you'll just be happy if somebody wins?  :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 15 April, 2010, 07:22:21 pm
I think it means I just wish we could all get along :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 15 April, 2010, 07:23:12 pm
I'm in total agreement with Fester.

People; please pay attention to who you're considering voting for, I mean, we are voting for who is going to lead this country, not for who is going to win X-Factor.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 15 April, 2010, 07:26:09 pm
Ah fuck it I'm just going to write all the parties down on a piece of paper, pin it to a dart board and throw a dart at it.








VNP (Vzzbux National Party) (Vote now)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 15 April, 2010, 07:45:29 pm
I'm off to wash my soul in soapy water.

(In other news I was 33% Green, and then 11% Tory, Labour and Liberal)


I recommend Ecover products for creating your soapy water in a Green Party type way....

However, they are a Belgian company so you'll have to hate yourself at the same time....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 15 April, 2010, 07:46:30 pm
Hey Fester I did the complete test with some strange results.
Eyes down for a full recap:-

Democracy.......Conservative
Crime...............UKIP
Health..............UKIP
Education.........UKIP
Environment......Labour
Immigration.......Labour
Europe.............BNP
Economy..........BNP
Welfare............Liberal

As you can see it's a right old mish mash across the board. I do believe that if you do the test you have to be truthful, otherwise it's a waste of time. Especially if you are trying to answer just to get the party that you want everyone to know you follow.
I have always thought that there is no one party for me and this just proves it. I knew I am to the right in some areas but again I am also to the left in others.

Before I get the old racist card thrown at me because of the BNP bits, remember to look at my immigration result.

All this means is that I will be voting Liberal in my area (I know I can't believe it myself) and here are the main reasons why.
I can never vote for a party that sold all that gold at rock bottom prices and also robbed our pension funds and this by the Chancellor at the time.
I also can't vote Tory as those Bastards made parking in my Fucking street cost £25. I now park up the road in the non permit area. It's not just the big things that piss me off.

So come voting day my cross will be a waste of time as it'll be in the yellow box  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 15 April, 2010, 07:54:51 pm
So come voting day my cross will be a waste of time as it'll be in the yellow box  ::)

I'm not sure any more if the term 'wasted vote' really means what it did in previous terms of office. It seems to me that, in the current climate, it could at least be a signal that the main two parties can no longer rely on the guilt of it to garner more votes for themselves.

Or maybe I'm just getting old.

Or maybe I'm just trying to see it from all angles, whilst really waiting for the Conspiracy Thread...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 15 April, 2010, 07:57:48 pm
Just think if everyone who was pissed off or just don't normally vote put a tick in their box, what an upset :o
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 15 April, 2010, 07:59:52 pm
Just think if everyone who was pissed off or just don't normally vote put a tick in their box, what an upset :o

Well, quite. But it would be more of a landslide.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 15 April, 2010, 08:20:45 pm
I got 25% Liberal Democrat (welfare) and 75% Green (environment, education and democracy). Those are the issues that interest me. I'll see how I score on the issues that don't (and the economy, which does, but I don't think there are any magic solutions).

Edit: Oh buggah. I see now it says choose at least 4, not just 4. I'm not sure I can have another go. Oh well. I'd already decided how I was going to vote anyway.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 15 April, 2010, 08:23:51 pm
No Green for me HoU, damn this planet and all who sail on her  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 15 April, 2010, 08:25:32 pm
No Green for me HoU, damn this planet and all who sail on her  :lol:

That's Tordelback and DevonsDaddy, then.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 15 April, 2010, 08:29:35 pm
I've found the solution to the countries problems. HOO HAA's books inspired me so here goes.>bates breath accordingly<

ZOMBIE-FACATION!

If we zombiefy the nation we save on fuel, electricity everything and help protect the enviroment for future undead generations.

Quantitive Eating I call it. Its the Noble Prize for sure this time! I think this will go down far better than my Sabre toothed kitten experiments. Glory days they were though eh? [minus the court cases and prison term of course.]
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 15 April, 2010, 08:50:38 pm
I love these quiz things!

I'm 25% Conservative (health), 25% Lib Dem (education), 25% Labour (environment), and 25% Green (welfare).



I'll probably vote Socialist when the time comes.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 15 April, 2010, 08:58:56 pm
Quantitive Eating I call it. Its the Noble Prize for sure this time! I think this will go down far better than my Sabre toothed kitten experiments. Glory days they were though eh? [minus the court cases and prison term of course.]

A wonderful idea! Move over Logan's Run!  :lol:

Just switched over the three party debate. Not a word of truth out of those charlatans... 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 15 April, 2010, 09:01:18 pm
Oh was that debate on tonight. I would never have guessed. They haven't even mentioned it on the TV. Can't believe I missed it.







VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 April, 2010, 09:40:35 pm


Edit: Oh buggah. I see now it says choose at least 4, not just 4. I'm not sure I can have another go. Oh well. I'd already decided how I was going to vote anyway.

I did the same thing as i didnt have time to go through all of the topics.I will go back and do the rest later.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 15 April, 2010, 10:29:28 pm
Who wants to buy my vote?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 15 April, 2010, 10:38:38 pm
I've just gone through Vote for Policies, and frankly the experience was somewhat depressing. In every case there was a total lack of practical detail. Also, I had to choose the lesser evil in every case - there was nothing I could subscribe to with any enthusiasm, and I've forgotten what I voted for already. As someone who works in the NHS, the health policies made particularly grim reading - none of them have a fucking clue.

The laughable result was 77.78% to the Greens, 11.11% to the Lib Dems (Democracy), 11.11% to the Conservatives (Education).

Why is the result laughable? I'd never vote for the Greens, because I'm not anti-nuclear power and I'm strongly pro-GM technology.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Cthulouis on 15 April, 2010, 11:11:59 pm
For God's sake, vote at the election. If you don't, you have no right to complain later.

Just being human, regardless of whether or not you vote, puts you under the remit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 19 of which states “Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

If I don’t vote for anyone, I can still voice opposition at whoever wins. If I do vote for someone, and they subsequently fulfil every promise they made, I can still complain if I don’t like it. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dudley on 16 April, 2010, 04:00:41 am
Why is the result laughable? I'd never vote for the Greens, because I'm not anti-nuclear power and I'm strongly pro-GM technology.


Regards

Robin

But do those two beliefs determine your vote ahead of issues such as the economy, policing, education, foreign affairs, etc?  The Greens offer the best overall package of policies (to my mind and, it seems, to yours): inevitably you'll not agree with all of them.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 16 April, 2010, 09:20:40 am
I'd never vote for the Greens, because I'm not anti-nuclear power and I'm strongly pro-GM technology.

Are you so keen on nuclear power that you wouldn't vote Green, because you couldn't guard against the possibility that having just two or three Green MPs in the House would be enough to stop a nuclear power station being built?

I am interested to know more about your enthusiasm for genetic modification. I'm not exactly horrified by it myself, but it seems to me any advantages it has to offer are purely commercial, whereas there are far greater potential human benefits to be had from social, political and economic reform than from the technological fix.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 16 April, 2010, 10:18:05 am
Somebody should really start making "I agree with Nick" posters.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 16 April, 2010, 12:01:16 pm
So who's watchin the mass debate tonight? (and yes I meant that)

Me? Think I'll catch up on last fridays Ashes to Ashes...

Spooky! That's what we did!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 April, 2010, 01:49:33 pm
I have engaged the Borg...

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/the_legendary_shark/Misc/borrow_facebook_ban.jpg

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: WoD on 16 April, 2010, 01:59:15 pm
What was the content of the facebook postings that were so contentious?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 April, 2010, 02:03:16 pm
I asked, "Why did you not even bother to vote on the Digital Economy Bill?" which is, as anyone can clearly see, a wholly inappropriate question to ask an elected representative.

I should be ashamed of myself.  :-[
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: WoD on 16 April, 2010, 02:33:58 pm
I amazed that you were not the one vilified in the paper...shame on you...you disgust me with your objectionable manner and view-point.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: James Stacey on 16 April, 2010, 02:48:57 pm
Shark .. you know this makes you legendary, right?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 16 April, 2010, 02:51:08 pm
Shark .. you know this makes you legendary, right?

He's got a point.
Well done, Mr Shark.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 April, 2010, 02:57:11 pm
You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 April, 2010, 03:06:57 pm
I have engaged the Borg...

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/the_legendary_shark/Misc/borrow_facebook_ban.jpg



Its interesting how each time you have confronted the dishonourable MP about this matter each time they have chosen to have someone else speak for them rather than talk about it directly.

Its as if they feel that it is beneath themselves to talk directly to anyone.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 16 April, 2010, 05:53:14 pm
David Borrow apparently had the eighth largest MPs' expenses claim in 2007/8: £172,706.


Driving home tonight I was heartened by all the vox pops on the radio saying that after hearing the leaders' debate they would now be voting LibDem instead of Labour or Tory.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 16 April, 2010, 07:11:28 pm
Why is the result laughable? I'd never vote for the Greens, because I'm not anti-nuclear power and I'm strongly pro-GM technology.

But do those two beliefs determine your vote ahead of issues such as the economy, policing, education, foreign affairs, etc?  The Greens offer the best overall package of policies (to my mind and, it seems, to yours): inevitably you'll not agree with all of them.

Remember that I also said:

Also, I had to choose the lesser evil in every case - there was nothing I could subscribe to with any enthusiasm, and I've forgotten what I voted for already.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 16 April, 2010, 08:04:31 pm
I'd never vote for the Greens, because I'm not anti-nuclear power and I'm strongly pro-GM technology.

Are you so keen on nuclear power that you wouldn't vote Green, because you couldn't guard against the possibility that having just two or three Green MPs in the House would be enough to stop a nuclear power station being built?

I'm not especially keen on nuclear power, I'm just not anti- it. It's the anti-technology angle that concerns me. The Greens are in favour to renewable technologies, of couse, but generally I don't trust them.

Quote
I am interested to know more about your enthusiasm for genetic modification. I'm not exactly horrified by it myself, but it seems to me any advantages it has to offer are purely commercial, whereas there are far greater potential human benefits to be had from social, political and economic reform than from the technological fix.

The commercial sector will exploit anything it can get its grubby little mitts on, even, I suspect, social, political and economic reforms. We just have to aim to curb its excesses and support what's good.

Sadly, most research is driven by the commercial sector, and as a result it gets the rights to exploit it. The only way to mitigate this is for public money to be put into scientfic and technological research, with a view to developing new industries that are going to provide jobs and produce beneficial products.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 April, 2010, 08:16:09 pm
A time limit on all patents of five to ten years might help. You invent something, you make a fortune off it for 5-10 years and then the idea reverts to public ownership, or 95% of it to public ownership if you think the inventor should keep earning until death.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 16 April, 2010, 08:34:13 pm
Sadly, most research is driven by the commercial sector, and as a result it gets the rights to exploit it. The only way to mitigate this is for public money to be put into scientfic and technological research, with a view to developing new industries that are going to provide jobs and produce beneficial products.

I'm not wholly in favour of public investment where GM or biotechnology in general are concerned. In recent years the pharmaceutical industry, struggling to come up with new blockbuster drugs through the conventional fine synthetic chemistry approach, has been keen to buy up biotech companies with the most promising products pipeline in the hope that they'll be the future source of lucrative large molecule patents. Public investment comes in the form of grants and technology park facilities to get things started, but it's big business that stands to reap the commercial dividends. The same would be happening with GM crops if the industry had managed to persuade the public that there was any need at all for the products to exist, but they weren't very convincing. People are a lot more willing to give free money to the pharmaceutical industry than agribusiness because they're willing to believe that the former is about saving lives rather than making money.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 April, 2010, 08:50:34 pm
and I'm strongly pro-GM technology.


Regards

Robin

I think its outrageous that Monsanto should be allowed to corporatise and control the food chain wholesale but they wont try that here in the west but they would like to do this in developing countries if they are not already doing so.

I think they should be stamped on very very hard.

This is the worst example of private sector exploitation.

I dont think any public money should be given to the private sector in principle because they wont see a return on it and i expect the private sector to fund itself.There has been far too much of this already what with bailouts being given to banks and the taxpayer being charged with it with NO return on their investments.

I am seeing this happen more and more but thats because we live in a corporatocray [fascism] where govts treat the the public purse as an infinate supply of cash that they think they can do what they like with.

For example Microsoft were proposing a tax paid by everyone to contribute towards improved cybersecurity because govts latest scare campaign is cyberattacks from russia and China etc.This is complete bolloxs and what makes it worse is Microsoft were proposing it.

My solution for that was for Microsoft to improve the security of their software which they could easily do plus the fact that we all pay cash to private sector ISP of which a percentage of their profits should go towards improving cybersecurity not taxpayers.

I dont want one penny of any taxes i pay going towards the pharmaceutical companies.Its totally out of the question.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 16 April, 2010, 11:12:55 pm
Public investment comes in the form of grants and technology park facilities to get things started, but it's big business that stands to reap the commercial dividends.

Yes, so you make sure the companies you set up and fun are public sector companies.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 16 April, 2010, 11:21:13 pm

I dont think any public money should be given to the private sector in principle because they wont see a return on it and i expect the private sector to fund itself.

I never said that money should be given to the private sector. I said:

Sadly, most research is driven by the commercial sector, and as a result it gets the rights to exploit it. The only way to mitigate this is for public money to be put into scientfic and technological research, with a view to developing new industries that are going to provide jobs and produce beneficial products.

the implication being that public sector R&D and commercialisation of results is funded and supported in order to offset the activities of the private.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 April, 2010, 11:57:41 pm

I dont think any public money should be given to the private sector in principle because they wont see a return on it and i expect the private sector to fund itself.

I never said that money should be given to the private sector. I said:

Sadly, most research is driven by the commercial sector, and as a result it gets the rights to exploit it. The only way to mitigate this is for public money to be put into scientfic and technological research, with a view to developing new industries that are going to provide jobs and produce beneficial products.

the implication being that public sector R&D and commercialisation of results is funded and supported in order to offset the activities of the private.


Regards

Robin

That part of my comment wasnt directed at yourself and i understood what you were saying.It was just the GM bit.

Apologies.

I just realised how stupid my comment was regarding my taxes going to pharmaceutical companies because up to a point i dont mind at all but it was that H1N1 scare that i took exception to for various reasons and now there are all those unwanted H1N1 vaccinations.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 17 April, 2010, 12:23:55 am
I never said that money should be given to the private sector. The implication being that public sector R&D and commercialisation of results is funded and supported in order to offset the activities of the private.

Fair enough. I just lack your vision. Just because we don't do that at the moment I was assuming we'd continue in the same vein in the future. I hear plenty about enabling research entrepreneurs to start up private firms, and seeking private sector partnerships to commercialize laboratory science discoveries from the universities, but I don't hear much from any political party about setting up new state-owned commercial enterprises. I think politicians on the the whole tend to see that as not being the role of government these days.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 17 April, 2010, 12:42:44 am
You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.  ;)

You're still Warren's bitch.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 17 April, 2010, 08:45:34 am
I never said that money should be given to the private sector. The implication being that public sector R&D and commercialisation of results is funded and supported in order to offset the activities of the private.

Fair enough. I just lack your vision.

Most would say my naivety - I expect it would be much harder and more complex than I hope.


Quote
I don't hear much from any political party about setting up new state-owned commercial enterprises. I think politicians on the the whole tend to see that as not being the role of government these days.

Let's face it, it would be a costly can of worms, and I can see why governments and would-be-governments steer clear of it. However, I'd really like to see some genuine Big Ideas for our countries that are properly planned and properly explained to the electorate. Most policy and argument is vague waffle about fairness, reducing waste, and so forth, or designed to appeal to our fears, prejudices and general ignorance.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 17 April, 2010, 01:10:07 pm
David Borrow apparently had the eighth largest MPs' expenses claim in 2007/8: £172,706.


Driving home tonight I was heartened by all the vox pops on the radio saying that after hearing the leaders' debate they would now be voting LibDem instead of Labour or Tory.


Didnt LibDems announce that they are going to get rid of all the oppressive legislation in the UK to do with civil liberties that has been forced on us by New Labour ?

I wipll have to look that one up but if there was a political party that guaranteed that it is going to dismantle the police state in the UK i would vote for them.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 17 April, 2010, 01:22:05 pm
So would I. It won't happen, though. Nobody's going to change any of that oppressive legislation.

It does all have the whiff of stage management, though. I was watching an analysis of that leaders' "debate" the other night, and one of the analysts began with the words "the Lib Dems are not going to win the election..." I keep hearing this. The Lib Dems are not going to win. Not going to win. But, they're "doing so well." It's almost like they're being set up to win, just to give the impression to the electorate that something genuinely new is going to happen.

We all know it doesn't matter which branch of the LibLabCon Party gets in, it'll still be the bankers and corporations calling the shots, but those who look no further than the colour of the flag flying above Number 10 will think something significant has happened when, in fact, nothing will change.

Just an observation.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 17 April, 2010, 03:54:59 pm
Lib Dems  want to scrap the pound and join the Euro which i dont agree with especially as the EU and the EURO are becoming unstable and besides from what i understand there are certain forces within the /UK establishment that wont let that happen and this is why the UK hasnt already scrapped the pound already so thats a failed policy.

I dont want their shite globalist/NWO currency as the Euro is a inbetween stage for a global currency.

They also propose to scrap the ID card scheme as well but wether they will if they get in is another story but i refuse to submit to /ID cards anyway.

I am also sick of elections in the UK being all about majorities and the first past the post horse race because it makes more sense for there to be proportional representation which would mean that a party like Labour would not be able to continue its wrecking spree of the UK unchallenged.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 17 April, 2010, 06:02:19 pm
We all know it doesn't matter which branch of the LibLabCon Party gets in, it'll still be the bankers and corporations calling the shots, but those who look no further than the colour of the flag flying above Number 10 will think something significant has happened when, in fact, nothing will change.

Just an observation.

An observation based on years upon years of exactly what you're talking about happening across the western world.

Yet people still get excited at election time. In fact, as time passes, elections seem to be getting more and more like the X-Factor final - not surprising, then, to hear Simon Cowell say he wants to get involved in politics, bringing more and more 'entertainment' value to the whole process.   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Braincrusher on 17 April, 2010, 06:51:18 pm
If I don't vote, it won't be out of apathy or being too lazy. I'm SICK OF THE LOT OF 'EM and why can't they put a none of the above option on the forms?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 17 April, 2010, 07:49:57 pm
If I don't vote, it won't be out of apathy or being too lazy. I'm SICK OF THE LOT OF 'EM and why can't they put a none of the above option on the forms?

Dude, write/ draw a 'none of the above' box onto your form. That's a standard spoil, right there, and far from apathetic (in my humble opinion).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 17 April, 2010, 08:03:19 pm
And then you can say afterwards "shit, look - the Tories/Labour got in again! I'm glad I spoiled my vote, as it would have done no good anyway if I'd voted."


For anyone interested in tactical voting, there are hours of fun to be had from this website.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/ (http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/)

The Greens are in third place in Brighton Pavilion (Labour) and have a genuine chance of winning. The 2005 results were:

Labour 15,995
Conservative 10,343
'Minority parties' 9,252
Liberal Democrats 7,070

If you lived there and reject the main parties you could vote Green for a laugh, or you could just write 'arseholes' on your ballot paper, which is funnier but changes nothing. Rejecting the electoral process doesn't actually change the composition of parliament. If you don't like the way they govern, refusing to vote isn't the same as taking the moral high ground any more than Pontias Pilate washing his hands is.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 17 April, 2010, 08:11:30 pm
Vote for Pingu.



Might as well.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 April, 2010, 02:42:39 am
Vote for Pingu.



Might as well.

If they are affiliated to or are a fifth cloumnist for foreign/offshore NWO/banking/Globalist interests like Bilderberg then dont vote for them either.

Nick Clegg has attended Bilderberg meetings.

All 3 main parties are affiliated to Bilderberg so i reject all 3 main parties and if you think that Nick Clegg is being set up to win you know he doesnt represent us.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 18 April, 2010, 08:52:27 am
If you don't like the way they govern, refusing to vote isn't the same as taking the moral high ground any more than Pontias Pilate washing his hands is.

For me, to spoil my vote is not just a rejection of the current leadership - it's a rejection of the process, itself.

It's certainly not an exercise in piety...

It's this:

To have my gang get into power and be able to tell you, and your gang, how to live your life seems fundamentally flawed, to me.

'an it harm none, do what ye will'

I have no wish to tell you, or anyone else, how to handle your finances, how to conduct your personal life or how to express your beliefs; religious or otherwise.

Spoiling my vote, therefore, may remain an expression of apathy to you, Usher, but it is the only expression with any integrity I am left with.    
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 18 April, 2010, 12:02:50 pm
Territoriality seems to be a human condition that has never really dissapeared. If you and your kith or kin outnumber others you can dominate that area by sheer weight of numbers alone and can therefore order the world to suit your interests or prejudices even.

Is that not the nature of human power since we first began creating civilizations, remaking the enviroment to our own liking?

Some more contentious theories about civilizations origins have rejected the hunter gather to collective farming hypothesis believing instead that organized violence,warfare was the trigger for settled communities. You bully one group into becoming farmers who grow the crops to feed the Army so it can go raiding, gathering more booty, territory and subject peoples to do the dirty work for you  [slaves.]

Er, I'm probably going to vote Lib Dem. Not that I believe a word they say but it's them or the Tories so my territorial prejudice and self interest would be better served by a Nick Clegg administration. How selfish of me, eh?

Civilization indeed. ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 18 April, 2010, 12:52:06 pm
Why can't we all have our own little local governments on the village/town or county level with Westminster there entirely for national co-ordination? It would be magnificently chaotic and uneven, but truly democratic. Local laws for local people.

If one side (nationally) gains 51% of the votes and gets to be in charge, that isn't democracy at all - that's just mob rule.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 18 April, 2010, 02:11:33 pm
Why can't we all have our own little local governments on the village/town or county level with Westminster there entirely for national co-ordination? It would be magnificently chaotic and uneven, but truly democratic. Local laws for local people.

Okay, so who is going to decide which little community we each get to live in? What if too many people want to live in one place? What if large numbers of old people go and retire to East Anglia, but nobody is working there; are the taxes from hard working Londoners or the industrious Scots going to be directed towards the massively increased healthcare needs of that region? When folks from Texting-While-Driving-Is-Fine are caught using their phones driving through Mobiles-Kill, are they tried in Texting-Is-Fine or Mobiles-Kill? While awaiting trial for murder, which region's prison are they kept in, and who foots the bill? This isn't just a can of worms, it's New Improved Wormo, with added Wriggle.

Things are difficult and badly coordinated as it is without even more fragmentation.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 April, 2010, 02:23:39 pm
So would I. It won't happen, though. Nobody's going to change any of that oppressive legislation.

It does all have the whiff of stage management, though. I was watching an analysis of that leaders' "debate" the other night, and one of the analysts began with the words "the Lib Dems are not going to win the election..." I keep hearing this. The Lib Dems are not going to win. Not going to win. But, they're "doing so well." It's almost like they're being set up to win, just to give the impression to the electorate that something genuinely new is going to happen.

We all know it doesn't matter which branch of the LibLabCon Party gets in, it'll still be the bankers and corporations calling the shots, but those who look no further than the colour of the flag flying above Number 10 will think something significant has happened when, in fact, nothing will change.

Just an observation.

I am not taken in by Nick Cleggs professional northener facade.

LibDems will definately not get my vote.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 April, 2010, 02:45:09 pm
Why can't we all have our own little local governments on the village/town or county level with Westminster there entirely for national co-ordination? It would be magnificently chaotic and uneven, but truly democratic. Local laws for local people.



Things are difficult and badly coordinated as it is without even more fragmentation.

Regards

Robin

And all that is the complete opposite of what we have going on now regarding the EU and a central planning office that rules 28 member states by dictats.

There is even talk of the EU due to the fiasco in Greece dictating to member states what their budget should be rather than the member state itself deciding its own economic policy.

So i ask how can a central planning office possibly understand what each member states fiscal policy should be ?

How can it possibly know ?

So really central govt at national level is really the only way to do it but on a regional level there should also be less govt dictats because even on a national level its very difficult to have a one size fits all economic policy for example or any policy for that matter.


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 18 April, 2010, 04:02:19 pm
Of course, the absolute most important thing to do is remove the central banks from the picture and allow governments to print their own money instead of relying on the inherently debt-laden bonds system. Once this is fixed, you will find that many of society's ills actually begin to fix themselves. Until we abolish this horrendous bonds system, there isn't going to be an improvement in anything because it is designed to generate debt. I don't know why more people aren't up in arms about this.

Once we have rescued our economy and parliament from this cancer, we can begin constructing a society future generations can be proud of. If we can fix this one thing, then our generation will shine through the ages as the one that finally emancipated humanity.

If you want to know why I'm so adamant about this, here's a website that explains things much better than I can: http://tinyurl.com/y6ahopc

Please, please, please look into this. It is, in my humble view, the most important political subject I have ever encountered.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 April, 2010, 04:57:24 pm
The other single most important thing is to remove the round table groups like Bilderberg,The Council On Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission and the Club Of Rome etc from the equation.

These are another kind of cancer that is destroying society.



BTW Nick Clegg is not from Sheffield and he is just another fraud working for the above.

You have been warned.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 18 April, 2010, 05:36:04 pm
I agree, Peter - but the central banks are their main weapon. Take this away from them and their power diminishes drastically.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 18 April, 2010, 06:05:16 pm
I'm not so into the 'truther' theories, to be honest.

It's not that I rule them out as mere paranoia, but I think there's enough going on under a person's nose to be getting on with, such as the recent expenses scandal, without dipping under the covers.   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 April, 2010, 06:15:27 pm
I agree, Peter - but the central banks are their main weapon. Take this away from them and their power diminishes drastically.

Thats right as the central banks are their food supply.

My party of choice wont win but i am happy in knowing that i havent been duped by the Dog and Pony show that is the LibLabCon.

You cant fool all of the people all of the time and you cant fool some of them any of the time.

I'm not so into the 'truther' theories, to be honest.

It's not that I rule them out as mere paranoia, but I think there's enough going on under a person's nose to be getting on with, such as the recent expenses scandal, without dipping under the covers.  

 :lol: ::)

Dont be offended but we have a serious problem here and avoiding it and avoiding the truth isnt going to get us anywhere.

Besides which it is one of my main interests and i mean to continue.

Be very wary of issues that are there to distract you.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 18 April, 2010, 06:23:31 pm
I'm not so into the 'truther' theories, to be honest.

It's not that I rule them out as mere paranoia, but I think there's enough going on under a person's nose to be getting on with, such as the recent expenses scandal, without dipping under the covers.  

 :lol: ::)

Dont be offended but we have a serious problem here and avoiding it and avoiding the truth isnt going to get us anywhere.

Besides which it is one of my main interests and i mean to continue.

Be very wary of issues that are there to distract you.

I'm not offended at all, dude. :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 April, 2010, 06:38:15 pm
I am glad about that  :)

I wasnt meaning to take the piss even though i just did.I dont usually make a point of mocking others.Apologies for that.

I am not saying that its not a legitimate issue because it might have sounded like that and i am sure there are some journalists and investigators covering it but its just not important enough for me to waste my time with.Besides there is wholesale fraud that is endemic in the UK political system and politicians buying pot plants or pornographic DVDs or paying for duck islands is only a small part of the problem.

Anyway very little has been done to resolve the expenses issue beyond half a dozen low level sacrificial lambs that are subject to a criminal investigation.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 18 April, 2010, 07:21:57 pm
If you don't like the way they govern, refusing to vote isn't the same as taking the moral high ground any more than Pontias Pilate washing his hands is.

For me, to spoil my vote is not just a rejection of the current leadership - it's a rejection of the process, itself.

It's certainly not an exercise in piety...

It's this:

To have my gang get into power and be able to tell you, and your gang, how to live your life seems fundamentally flawed, to me.

'an it harm none, do what ye will'

I have no wish to tell you, or anyone else, how to handle your finances, how to conduct your personal life or how to express your beliefs; religious or otherwise.

Spoiling my vote, therefore, may remain an expression of apathy to you, Usher, but it is the only expression with any integrity I am left with.    

Pffft... I bet you'd be the first to moan if you were denied a vote...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 18 April, 2010, 07:22:41 pm
So would I. It won't happen, though. Nobody's going to change any of that oppressive legislation.

It does all have the whiff of stage management, though. I was watching an analysis of that leaders' "debate" the other night, and one of the analysts began with the words "the Lib Dems are not going to win the election..." I keep hearing this. The Lib Dems are not going to win. Not going to win. But, they're "doing so well." It's almost like they're being set up to win, just to give the impression to the electorate that something genuinely new is going to happen.

We all know it doesn't matter which branch of the LibLabCon Party gets in, it'll still be the bankers and corporations calling the shots, but those who look no further than the colour of the flag flying above Number 10 will think something significant has happened when, in fact, nothing will change.

Just an observation.

What a depressingly accurate observation.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 18 April, 2010, 07:23:42 pm
No apologies required, Peter!

Anyway very little has been done to resolve the expenses issue beyond half a dozen low level sacrificial lambs that are subject to a criminal investigation.

Of course, the whole Swine Flu fiasco was a great distraction from the expenses row. Gubment was quick to hold that up on a sign saying, 'Look, everyone! We're taking serious action to prevent a worldwide pandemic! We are relevant!'
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 18 April, 2010, 07:25:27 pm
If you don't like the way they govern, refusing to vote isn't the same as taking the moral high ground any more than Pontias Pilate washing his hands is.

For me, to spoil my vote is not just a rejection of the current leadership - it's a rejection of the process, itself.

It's certainly not an exercise in piety...

It's this:

To have my gang get into power and be able to tell you, and your gang, how to live your life seems fundamentally flawed, to me.

'an it harm none, do what ye will'

I have no wish to tell you, or anyone else, how to handle your finances, how to conduct your personal life or how to express your beliefs; religious or otherwise.

Spoiling my vote, therefore, may remain an expression of apathy to you, Usher, but it is the only expression with any integrity I am left with.    

Pffft... I bet you'd be the first to moan if you were denied a vote...

 :lol:

Why, it's my basic human right, I'll have you know!

I do enjoy spoiling my vote so you could be right. This year, a friend and I are considering simply stamping the form with a solid, red VOID.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 18 April, 2010, 08:06:22 pm
This thread can be summed up thusly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSI0YjPFPoo
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 18 April, 2010, 08:50:14 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh6oHP40Q4A&feature=related
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 19 April, 2010, 01:49:23 pm
Interesting observation from yesterdays Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/18/clegg-media-elite-murdoch-lib-dem

"I doubt if Rupert Murdoch watched the election debate last week. His focus is very firmly on the United States, especially his resurgent Wall Street Journal. But if he did, there would have been one man totally unknown to him. One man utterly beyond the tentacles of any of his family, his editors or his advisers. That man is Nick Clegg.

Make no mistake, if the Liberal Democrats actually won the election – or held the balance of power – it would be the first time in decades that Murdoch was locked out of British politics. In so many ways, a vote for the Lib Dems is a vote against Murdoch and the media elite.

I can say this with some authority because in my five years editing the Sun I did not once meet a Lib Dem leader, even though I met Tony Blair, William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith on countless occasions. (Full disclosure: I have since met Nick Clegg.)"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 19 April, 2010, 01:53:59 pm
Interesting. Maybe that explains this:

April 18, 2010
YouGov/Murdoch Distort Poll To Stop Lib Dem Momentum

YouGov produce a daily poll for the Sun and Sunday Times. Today's YouGov was the only post-debate poll to show the LibDems in third place.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/04/yougovmurdoch_d.html

Surely this kind of thing is treason?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 19 April, 2010, 05:45:53 pm
I dont quite get the importance or point of that guardian article.
Interesting observation from yesterdays Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/18/clegg-media-elite-murdoch-lib-dem

"I doubt if Rupert Murdoch watched the election debate last week. His focus is very firmly on the United States, especially his resurgent Wall Street Journal. But if he did, there would have been one man totally unknown to him. One man utterly beyond the tentacles of any of his family, his editors or his advisers. That man is Nick Clegg.

Make no mistake, if the Liberal Democrats actually won the election – or held the balance of power – it would be the first time in decades that Murdoch was locked out of British politics. In so many ways, a vote for the Lib Dems is a vote against Murdoch and the media elite.

I can say this with some authority because in my five years editing the Sun I did not once meet a Lib Dem leader, even though I met Tony Blair, William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith on countless occasions. (Full disclosure: I have since met Nick Clegg.)"
[/quote]

Of course thats all well and good but it doesnt address the fact that there are 4 other political parties in the UK besides the LibLabCon but i dont find the media focussing much on them so while this article points out the Murdoch influence its still reinforcing the LibLabCon because its claiming the LibDems are a voice for the powerless.The fact is i believe that LibDems are already a co-opted party and if they are not at present then they will be if they are elected and that includes Rupert Murdoch.

Also its very hypocritical of the author of the article to complain about the Murdoch influence on papers that publish pro-conservative propaganda while at the same time the Guardian has been pro-New Labour and especially Gordon Brown and much more than that.

The pot calls the kettle black.

How much coverage does the Guardian give to Conservatives and UKIP for example ?

It covers them but it doesnt endorse them in any way.

Hypocritical bullshit article that is guilty of that of which it condemns while the Guardian pushes its own style of propagnanda but because its not Murdoch then that makes it alright.

"The fact is much of the print press in this country is entirely partisan and always has been"

That must include the Guardian then and it doesnt exonerate itself from this by printing this revelation although its hardly that.


The other slant is that the author of the article is probably a disenfranchised New Labour supporter who is pissed that New Labour probably wont get re-elected so he has jumped ship to the LibDems and is very happy to see the propaganda wing of the Conservative party become ineffective.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 19 April, 2010, 09:53:17 pm
I forgot to point out that the Sun was Pro Labour while David Yelland was editor although it had already started to move away from supporting Conservatives with its previous editor.Rebecca Wade who is also very pro labour replaced Yelland so the Sun continued to be pro Labour until very recently when it shifted back to being pro Conservative which is what i think David Yelland doesnt like.

So was David Yelland who is pro Labour and has connections with No10 complaining then about Rupert Murdochs influence then ?

Most probably not.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 23 April, 2010, 01:22:45 pm
I can't get ANY of my local Parliamentary candidates to answer a question. Indeed, they won't even reply to my emails! The question is:

"Should the British Government reclaim the responsibility of printing its own money?"

If anyone else would like to ask this question of their MPs/candidates, please do so and post any replies here. Ta!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 24 April, 2010, 11:48:03 am
I am not taken in by Nick Cleggs professional northener facade.

Ugh. He's northern? Damn. And I was thinking of voting for his party. That's torn it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 24 April, 2010, 12:25:11 pm
I am not taken in by Nick Cleggs professional northener facade.

Ugh. He's northern? Damn. And I was thinking of voting for his party. That's torn it.

Nick Clegg isnt a northener but he pretends to be northern by putting on an accent and pretending he is from sheffield when in actual fact he is from the home counties.Just another empty suit and a career politician.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 24 April, 2010, 12:57:33 pm
Nope, sorry, I don't understand why pretending you're from Sheffield would make more people want to vote for you. I'd be more inclined to think he's just picked the accent up due to being around people who talk with it rather a lot. It does happen, you know.

Personally, I'm just disappointed he's not a psychotic seven foot high talking alligator beasty from space.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 24 April, 2010, 01:10:03 pm
Vote for me.

I'm proper northern.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 24 April, 2010, 01:23:14 pm
Pfft... You're not a real shark.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 24 April, 2010, 01:31:53 pm
Nope, sorry, I don't understand why pretending you're from Sheffield would make more people want to vote for you. I'd be more inclined to think he's just picked the accent up due to being around people who talk with it rather a lot. It does happen, you know.



All i am doing is stating where Nick Clegg is from for the record.

For example "I'm the only leader of the three leaders who actually comes from one of the great cities of the North."

This is what is incorrect because to say you come from somewhere means or implies that you originate or were born in a particular place and its dishonest and misleading to make claims that are incorrect.He doesnt say "I come from Chalfont St.Giles in Buckinghamshire but i represent my constituents in Sheffield" or "Despite coming from Buckinghamshire,Sheffield is my second home and i am proud to represent the people of one of the great cities in the North".

I could move to Scotland and after a while i might pick up the accent but it would be dishonest if i then made claims that i am Scottish.

Its just a small thing i know but i am a stickler for detail and facts or perhaps with X Factor politics details are not important.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 24 April, 2010, 01:50:01 pm
Pfft... You're not a real shark.

I think you'll find that the issue isn't the reality of my sharkiness, but the beneficial effect my party will have on sharkiness in the future. I promise quality, affordable sharkiness for all (except those sections of society we neither like nor talk about) and I also promise something about tax.

Go on, vote for me. Makes as much sense as voting for anyone else and if there's one thing this country really does need it's a Sharxx Dek Thargo in Number 10.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 24 April, 2010, 01:58:49 pm
For example "I'm the only leader of the three leaders who actually comes from one of the great cities of the North."

If that's what he's said, then that is indeed technically wrong. So fair enough. Doesn't necessarily mean he's putting on the accent though.

..and anyway, you're not even a real wolf.


Go on, vote for me. Makes as much sense as voting for anyone else and if there's one thing this country really does need it's a Sharxx Dek Thargo in Number 10.

Sorry, Shark. I already know who I'm voting for. http://malcolmkirk.deviantart.com/art/Doomlord-For-Prime-Minister-161313700 (http://malcolmkirk.deviantart.com/art/Doomlord-For-Prime-Minister-161313700)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 24 April, 2010, 02:15:40 pm
Pfft... You're not even a real shark.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 24 April, 2010, 02:19:53 pm
Pfft... You're not even a real shark.

Fixed that for you.

I think you'll find that the issue isn't who fixed what for whom, but how little it would cost under the Sharkplan and how very much more it would've cost under a Doomlord government.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 24 April, 2010, 02:26:29 pm
Not even a real house.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: radiator on 24 April, 2010, 02:29:22 pm
It's a very small thing, but this little article has endeared me to Nick Clegg a little. Personally it's a pet-hate of mine when politicians try to reference Susan Boyle or the Arctic Monkeys to appear to be cool and in touch with the public when we all know they aren't - it was bad enough when Blair did it, full-on excruciating when Brown or Cameron attempt it.

Quote
Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has admitted that he is not a fan of the UK's soaps.

The politician made his confession in an interview with the Radio Times after being asked whether he enjoyed Coronation Street, EastEnders, The Bill or The Archers.

Clegg replied: "I don't watch or listen to any of these, I'm afraid."

Meanwhile, when asked to pick a favourite out of X Factor judges Simon Cowell, Cheryl Cole, Dannii Minogue and Louis Walsh, the 43-year-old said: "None of the above."

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/news/a215400/nick-clegg-i-dont-watch-soaps.html (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/news/a215400/nick-clegg-i-dont-watch-soaps.html)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 24 April, 2010, 03:57:06 pm
That may be because Clegg is actually a human being instead of being an alien from planet politics.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 24 April, 2010, 07:33:00 pm
That may be because Clegg is actually a human being instead of being an alien from planet politics.

I'm not sure of that, dude... I think he's pretty much a tentacle-spewing monstrostity from Planet Politics, just like the others. His PR people are just a little more shrewd, perhaps...   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 24 April, 2010, 09:09:24 pm
I think he's pretty much a tentacle-spewing monstrostity from Planet Politics, just like the others. His PR people are just a little more shrewd, perhaps...  

Have a read of his wikipedia entry?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 24 April, 2010, 10:43:54 pm
A quick peruse of Clegg's Wiki, I am disappointed that there is no mention of Cal or his fellow mercenaries. That's bloody spin for you.






VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 24 April, 2010, 11:24:17 pm
I think he's pretty much a tentacle-spewing monstrostity from Planet Politics, just like the others. His PR people are just a little more shrewd, perhaps...  

Have a read of his wikipedia entry?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg)


From wikipedia:

He recently supported "liberal interventionism", arguing that the "unjustified invasion of Iraq" should not weaken support for this. He expressed that there should be more emphasis on a more humanitarian foreign policy.

Come on now, Mr Clegg. Liberal interventionism?

Just a new spin on an old, nasty habit.

Any you wonder why I distrust these people?!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 24 April, 2010, 11:53:30 pm
He recently supported "liberal interventionism", arguing that the "unjustified invasion of Iraq" should not weaken support for this. He expressed that there should be more emphasis on a more humanitarian foreign policy.

Heh. Notice only 6 words of that is direct quotation, and four of those words are "unjustified invasion of Iraq."

As I understand it, the alternative to both military imperialism and 'liberal interventionism' is laissez-faire: put simply, 'what do we care what one bunch of foreigners does to another? Let them all die.'

What I meant by introducing that link is that it gives an idea of his sympathies, his qualifications and his previous employment.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 25 April, 2010, 12:00:38 am
The invasion of Iraq was justified. America sold Saddam the WMD's. They are there its just Iraq is a big place to bury them, needle in a haystack comes to mind.
I think they were so sure they would find them almost straight away.

I don't know why I am posting this here but ah well.





VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 April, 2010, 12:14:35 am
The invasion of Iraq is about nothing more or less than money. It's not just about war profiteering or stealing oil, it's about a whole new market for Coca~Cola and Prozac. The Middle East is full of consumers who just aren't consuming enough, dammit, and we've got simply gigatons of cool, pointless shite we can sell them.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 25 April, 2010, 12:14:50 am
I don't know why I am posting this here but ah well.

I don't know either, but you may as well. The more the merrier; what the heck.

I think HOO-HAA and I are agreed that the invasion of Iraq was unjustified (even if you disagree, Vzzbux), but he seems to be saying we should stay out of other people's business (including Mugabe's murderous rampage in Zimbabwe?), whereas I think that 'liberal intervention' is fair enough, as keeping your options open goes.

My own view of Iraq is that political considerations (i.e. propping up secular dictatorship in the middle east) took precedence over justice and held George Bush Sr. back from helping America's allies remove Saddam Hussein from power in the first Gulf War. 10 years on is too late to decide you didn't get the result you wanted from a war you already fought and won. You can't go back again for another go because your actions were unprincipled last time.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 April, 2010, 12:18:31 am
Famous Liberal interventionists include GHW Bush,GWBush,Bill Clinton,Tony Blair,and Gordon Brown among others.

So what this translates to is prime ministers and presidents of elected non-representative govts using their respective military capabilities to further the geopolitical agenda of the Bilderberg Group and the Council of Foreign Relations etc etc and Globalist/Internationalist interests and the interests of mercantile bankers like Rothschilds etc so really it is Imperialism.

If you realise this you realise why Nick Clegg says "Unjustified invasion of Iraq" should not weaken support for this".

Its all about trying to justify wars and invasions and selling them on the grounds that there are moral reasons for them or resorting to war for moral purposes especially if the pretext for those wars or invasions or bombing campaigns is false as it was in Kosovo and Iraq and most probably Iran.Its also at the very least arguable that the pretext to invading Iraq was false but its fact that the necessity of the UK having to neutralise SH because of alleged WMDs was overstated to say the very least.

So Nick clegg is just another interchangable empty suit.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 25 April, 2010, 12:23:53 am
The Bilderberg Group, yesterday:

(http://nahummer.hypocrisy.com/files/2009/05/stonecutters-300x225.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 25 April, 2010, 09:37:57 am
I think HOO-HAA and I are agreed that the invasion of Iraq was unjustified (even if you disagree, Vzzbux), but he seems to be saying we should stay out of other people's business (including Mugabe's murderous rampage in Zimbabwe?), whereas I think that 'liberal intervention' is fair enough, as keeping your options open goes.

Invasion of another's country is never, ever about 'helping out', Usher - not in my experience. As Peter says, governments and politicians often try to put some kind of moral spin on their actions, but it usually boils down to cash and land and key territory regarding military strategy. Just take a little peek at Tony Blair's oil portfolio, following the Iraq war.

Zimbabwee does come up quite a bit in debates for interventionism, but I don't think invasion would help those folks out. It would most likely cause more unrest. People are best left to sort their own business out, from both a moral and pragmatic perspective - and they are more likely to sort it out quicker and more efficiently. That said, I do appreciate how horrible it is to watch thugs like Mugabee in action. However, trade sanctions and other non-aggressive action may seem more effective means to bring him back into line.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 25 April, 2010, 09:51:44 am
Very reasonably put. However, I don't think it's fair to judge Nick Clegg by Tony Blair's actions. My interest in the LibDems is predominantly down to their domestic policies. Foreign policy doesn't interest me very much; I'm just keen that we should be allies with nice countries, condemn horrible ones and exploit trading opportunities with the ones in between.


Edit - P.S. I don't think a government Nick Clegg has any say in would go needlessly starting wars all over the place because there's a greater imperative to try and cut spending.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 25 April, 2010, 12:35:41 pm
I appreciate where you're coming from too, Usher - I must admit to being just a tiny bit... intrigued... by Clegg. He's very skilled at what he does and must be commended for his PR.

I'm afraid that's the best I can do, in terms of praise, for any of them. But it's something, right? Especially from a self-confessed anarchist! :)

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 25 April, 2010, 03:05:51 pm
I think his appeal rests in the notion that he isn't entirely dependent on PR. He's gotten himself into trouble a couple times because of how frank he is sometimes, especially when Ming Campbell's leadership of the LibDems was in doubt.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 April, 2010, 10:01:28 pm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtHshBWFRyg&feature=related


I am not going to be taken in by another smooth talking and seemingly open and reasonable politician in a suit who seems like a breath of fresh air promising change.I wasnt taken in by the last one who was elected in 1997 or the other who was elected in the US in Nov 2008.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 26 April, 2010, 07:26:13 am
I am not going to be taken in by another smooth talking and seemingly open and reasonable politician in a suit who seems like a breath of fresh air promising change.I wasnt taken in by the last one who was elected in 1997 or the other who was elected in the US in Nov 2008.

Alas, this is also the bottom line for me, Peter.

But... I'm interested in how you see the UKIP as any different? Surely Robert Kilroy Silk (now no longer with them, but still...) was the smoothest talking suit of them all, no?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 April, 2010, 02:35:19 pm
UKIP are no different. I've telephoned and emailed each and every one of my Parliamentary candidates (David Borrow (Lab), Peter Fisher (Lib Dem), Lorraine Fullbrook (Con) and David Duxbury (UKIP)) over my concerns surrounding the way the Government raises money and... guess what?

Not one of them will even talk about it. None of them want to look into it. None of them will tell me that I'm wrong. None of them will tell me that I'm right. The prevailing attitude seems to be "I'm not an economist, so I have no opinion on this. Maybe you should try another party."

How depressing to live in a mockocracy.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 26 April, 2010, 02:58:28 pm
I am not going to be taken in by another smooth talking and seemingly open and reasonable politician in a suit who seems like a breath of fresh air promising change.I wasnt taken in by the last one who was elected in 1997 or the other who was elected in the US in Nov 2008.

Alas, this is also the bottom line for me, Peter.

But... I'm interested in how you see the UKIP as any different? Surely Robert Kilroy Silk (now no longer with them, but still...) was the smoothest talking suit of them all, no?

I just love UKIP - not only do they provide some of the best comedy and satire of the campaign, they appeal to all the europhobic middle-Englanders and divert loads of votes away from the Tories, without ever being in danger of getting elected themselves. We need more of these Daily Mail style parties to split the tory vote even further. It used to just be the lefties who were prone to endless factionalism and infighting!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 April, 2010, 04:46:00 pm
I am not a Europhobe in the broad sense as i have no problem with integrating with the rest of Europe or trading with Europe as my problem is why we have to lose our sovereignty and our right to self govern at the same time when we could do all of these things by joining the European Free Trade Agreement instead after leaving its present power structure and also it would save the UK billions and billions and billions a year that it throws at the EU.I might also remind everyone thast the EU has never had its books audited and in my mind it is a criminal organisation that embezzles billions and billions that its member states throw at it each year.

I dont like Collectivism especially when it concerns the EU and why should EU law have superiority over UK law ?

Why is a centralised power structure that is by default undemocratic better than democratic self-rule ?

Why should i go along with what is described in their own words as the "post-democratic era" ?

What does the post democratic era mean to you ?

What does it imply ?

It implies to me that we are ruled by dictats which is exactly what is happening right now and i wholeheartedly reject being ruled by a monolithic bereaucrtaic monolithic centralised govt that to me is very similar to the USSR in its outlook and ideology and thats no good to me so i will keep on opposing it and always will do and UKIP are the only party that represents my interests in that respect having rejected the BNP as a voting option.I will not go along with the destruction of national sovereignty or at least NOT UNTIL there are proper checks and balances in place that will protect the UK from the dangers of misplaced power and influence that are not in my interests none of which are present in the current Lisbon Treaty so its the treaty that needs to be reformed and rewritten and not the EU itself as its the Lisbon Treaty that outlines where the power has been allocated to because it removes power from the UK.

Why does what was originally intended as a trading bloc have to evolve into a power grab which is what was the intention of Adolf Hitler ?

So anyone who claims that its all about Xenophobia and that type of thing is in my mind is uneducated and they degrade and trivialise the argument against the EU in its present state by reducing a UKIP vote to that kind of level and i could write 10,000 words explaining my position on it but i wont.The EU issue is very big and very complicated/multifacted and reducing it down to simplistic arguments is just for the dull minded.

So please dont trivialise my voting choice by calling myself a eorophobic middle englander as i will take offence and i may become unpleasent because i find it insulting in the extreme as my vote is purely academic and is based on having an understanding of the political process and certainly not bigotry or ignorance.Perhaps it is for some but its not for me.

I might also add that i bitterly resent being denied a properly counted referendum on the subject where all the ins and outs of it are presented to the public so that they can decide for themselves after weighing up the pros and cons of EU membership of which there are many.some might not like this is they have collectivist tendencies and think that direct democracy is wrong but thats tough shit because they dont rule by a majority.

UKIP in my mind are the only viable vote because i am not willing to risk being cheated by the main 3 co-opted parties who are one and the same.Perhaps i am being judgemental about Nick Clegg when he hasnt even had a chance as PM but i dont know if i see someone who has personal integrity who means what they say or will it be a string of broken promises and business as usual ?

Thats my dilemma and if i was to vote for Nick Clegg then i want him to renounce his membership of Bilderberg because you cannot be a member of that organisation and claim to represent the interest of the people whom he claims to represent.However having said that Nick Clegg is distancing himself from New Labour over civil liberties which is a good thing but i need to know more before i decide to vote for them.There should also be political accountability because if i did vote for LibDems on the basis that they promised to scrap the ID cards scheme and databases and oppressive legislation and then they didnt then the electorate should have recourse to demand that they do it as promised.

UKIP are an independent party that are not co-opted and they represent my interests or at least some of them.

In my mind the idea of an integrated Europe has been completely ruined by these Globalist collectivist freaks so it the EU or its binding treaty and the way it goes about its business within its parliament and as Nigel Farage correctly stated the people of the UK gave their lives fighting so that the UK could be a sovereign nation and decide its own policies and hire and fire its own politicians as its people and its govt see fit and i do not accept being ruled by Herman Van Rompuy who is nothing more than a shill for Global Governance.

No thank you.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 April, 2010, 05:01:09 pm
Well said, Peter.

I want my government back.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 26 April, 2010, 05:02:44 pm
Why does not wanting to be swallowed up by Europe equate to you hating Europe. 'europhobic middle-Englander' does this mean that people are scared of Europe?
When I visit countries in Europe I want to exxperience 'THAT' country and not a bastardised version on every country. I seem to recall many people slag off America for spreading all their stuff around the globe but those same people want Europe to be the same, weird.
Norway and Switzerland seem to be enjoying themselves, are those countries full of racist Euro haters!!!

I say this not to start a massive argument but to point out that some people just don't see the point of being swallowed up by Europe to be part of Europe.
I also seem to recall that at one stage they said there would be no more wars because we would be as one. That didn't work and the Yanks helped sort that out, even with the French passing secret flight routes over to the enemy at the time.
We would all prosper with one currency and interest rate, yes indeedy do, that works a treat doesn't it!

See what you've made me do, I must stop it, as I need to order a pizza (see how I support foods from Europe  ;))
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 April, 2010, 05:09:06 pm

We would all prosper with one currency and interest rate, yes indeedy do, that works a treat doesn't it!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



*swoons*
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 26 April, 2010, 05:20:50 pm
You got so upset Shark that you nearly vanished off the screen  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 April, 2010, 05:49:26 pm
Vanished up my own self, more like  :lol: And, even further up myself I find the following nuggets...

“The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People vs. The Banks.” – Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875


“The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control…. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” — Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976


“The eyes of our citizens are not sufficiently open to the true cause of our distress. They ascribe them to everything but their true cause, the banking system;The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson


“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right MAJOR CRISIS, and the nations will accept the NEW WORLD ORDER.” — David Rockefeller — Chairman, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 April, 2010, 06:03:44 pm
The Euro is already failing because of the debacle in Greece which is a result of the greeks mishandling their economy and also because of bankers like Goldman Sachs but its very convoluted to explain.

Anyway the flaw in the system of a single currency is that other member states are expected to bail out the Greeks despite having their own individual economic problems and being in the middle of a downturn/recession but despite this the UK presntly will be forced to contribute 20 percent of whatever sum of money is allocated to bailing out Greece which is currently set at 35 billion GBP but could potentially be as high as 80 billion GBP and the UK is already 750 billion GBP in debt so we have to borrow more money from central banks that are privately owned which increases the debt slavery already imposed on us by the likes Of Gordon Brown and his destruction by default economic policies that were instigated by central privately owned and runned banks.

So at best its 7 billion GBP that will be removed from our economy or as much as 18 billion GBP

So what happens then other countries who have had their economies trashed by design follow suit like Portugal and spain and Italy etc ?

Are we going to be forced to help contribute funds to bailout those countries as well ?

Does anyone else see that this in itself is unsustainable if it is repeated ?

I might as well point out that if none of those countries had adopted the Euro then it wouldnt cost anyone else anything to bail them out as it wouldnt have been necessary to do so other than offer that country aid or loans on our own terms so the whole thing is going to be a very costly mistake all round but of course no one will realise this until its too late but it just goes to show how ill conceived the whole EU/single currency thing is.

The EU forcing its one size - fits all economic policies/straitjacket on its member states just isnt going to work and now the EU or its central governing body wants or proposes to dictate to the UK what its future budget will be domestically and the UK will be forced to follows its imposed austerity measures.

Its just wrong on so many levels.

The upshot of ALL the loans and bailouts that are being imposed on taxpayers both in the EU and the US is that it massively increases the transfer of wealth and assets into the hands of privately owned and operated central banks and gives them via their collective slush fund/holding company the IMF MASSIVE MASSIVE leverage over countries and entire continents which is of course the point of the preplanned and manufactured boom and bust economic cycles.The IMF has already financially ruined many many developing countries and the third world so now they are moving onto the West and what we are experiencing right now is the first stage in that process and it will get worse unless it is stopped.We are all in effect not that much different to the people of Haiti in this respect.

So in that sense Nick Clegg is a moron for proposing to scrap the pound and adopt the Euro.


So get this BanksterGangster Globalist fraudulent criminal collectivist NWO filth out of my adopted country and their representatives and shills because like LS i want my adopted country and my govt back.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 26 April, 2010, 06:19:36 pm
Lots and lots of words.

What the LibDems are offering for your particular interests;

. The Freedom bill, which will return quite a few civil liberties that have been stripped from us under Labour and will most likely remain that way under the Tories. (Has been backed by Clegg since 2006)

. Electoral reform, which will take us out of this mockery we call democracy into a system that actually makes votes count. (The LibDems have been pushing this for a while, only for Labour and the Tories to smack it right back down)

. Mass elimination of bureaucrats throughout the public services, coupled with decentralising power from Whitehall.

. Taking a more central role in the EU instead of being a whiney little loner middleman for America.

. Having a special relationship with the US that doesn't have us fellating them constantly and getting smacked around like a whore.

I'm not trying to change your political views or anything, but I'm just putting a few points out there you might find interesting. Oh, and in the event Clegg does get in and he backpedals on these promises, just watch as the shit hits the fan.

We're in a situation where if we don't stop the Tories and Labour from tossing the reins to this country to each other, we'll continue to be this stunted little shell of a nation. We may not know how a LibDem government will work in practice, but it has to be a lot fucking better than the shambles the other two have made of the job.

As for the Euro, well, I'm skeptical, but fuck it, got to take the bad with the good, eh?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 April, 2010, 06:22:51 pm
“Give me control of a country’s money, and I care not who writes its laws.”
~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Now his descendants want control of a world's money. Should we give it to them?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 April, 2010, 06:28:32 pm
Libdems have got my interest but i am undecided at present.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 April, 2010, 10:04:19 pm
I just wanted to say that i wasnt getting at DanDontDare earlier personally as i was talking generally.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Old Tankie on 26 April, 2010, 10:32:42 pm
I really don't know how we've survived all these years, with all these terrible politicians from the Left and Right, they've absolutely ruined us!!  Ah well, nothing else to do but turn off my laptop, get up from this comfortable sofa, switch off the flat-screen HD TV, take out the disc from the BlueRay, make myself a cup of tea with lovely fresh water; might stick a pasty in the microwave, washed down with a nice glass of wine, then I suppose I'll have to drag my badly governed bones off to that piping hot electric shower, that's, of course, after I've used the modern sanitation system, then I'll be off to lay in my comfortable king-sized bed, and drift off to sleep listening to Radio 4 on the Bose system or, using my government supplied education, I might read a shiny new book!!  And, if I'm feeling rough in the morning, I can pop down the road to see my lovely GP, who will give me lots of lovely free medication if I should need it!!  Yeah! Life's a bitch........!!!

I'm sure those Africans dying through lack of sanitation, dirty drinking water, AIDS, and lacking medical care or a decent education, etc. etc. would quite like our terrible life styles, given half the chance.

Yeah, what have those bloody politicians ever done for us??!!

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 26 April, 2010, 10:42:53 pm
“Give me control of a country’s money, and I care not who writes its laws.”
~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Context? I'm not familiar with the quote or the speaker, but to me this could be read several different ways. Realpolitik? Fearless articulation of a truth of capitalism? Rubbing the noses of anti-semites in his success? Or is it because from being banker to Wilhelm IX he kept his position after Napoleon invaded? The rulers of the principality of Hesse-Kassel came and went with the whims of fate, but they needed the same banking services. They're not exactly the words of a man hell-bent on world domination.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 26 April, 2010, 10:43:21 pm
Yeah, what have those bloody politicians ever done for us??!!

Well, to be honest, dude, the vast majority of what you've listed has been done by you, and people like you. Politicians just tax it all ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: mogzilla on 26 April, 2010, 10:45:30 pm
mr bnp has just been on with his broadcast wringing his hands like some nervous bond villains henchman :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 26 April, 2010, 10:58:01 pm
Yeah, what have those bloody politicians ever done for us??!!

Well, to be honest, dude, the vast majority of what you've listed has been done by you, and people like you. Politicians just tax it all ;)

Well, to be honest, dude, the vast majority of posts on this thread have been various iterations of "im too clever to vote because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME MIRITE!!!!" or "I'm not voting unless they pander solely to my inane and spurious prejudices".



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 April, 2010, 11:30:32 pm
Yeah, what have those bloody politicians ever done for us??!!

Well, to be honest, dude, the vast majority of what you've listed has been done by you, and people like you. Politicians just tax it all ;)

Well, to be honest, dude, the vast majority of posts on this thread have been various iterations of "im too clever to vote because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME MIRITE!!!!" or "I'm not voting unless they pander solely to my inane and spurious prejudices".





Whats "MIRITE"   ?

I understood the rest of your nonsense but its just that word that i dont know the meaning of.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 26 April, 2010, 11:39:06 pm
It's a condensed-ening of "Am I Right".
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 April, 2010, 11:46:44 pm
 And, if I'm feeling rough in the morning, I can pop down the road to see my lovely GP, who will give me lots of lovely free medication if I should need it!!  Yeah! Life's a bitch........!!!


Yeah, what have those bloody politicians ever done for us??!!



Dont forget all those who gave their lives during WW2 so that we were rewarded with free healthcare and a welfare state as a result !!

Its not actually free because the NHS is funded by taxpayers so thank the people who pay for it as well !!

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 27 April, 2010, 01:55:03 am
What have politicians ever done for us? I don't quite know how to answer that. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that all politicians are bad, nor that everything Parliament does is selfish. Our political system, and those members of society we elect to run that system for us, are not perfect. I doubt you'll find many British people who would disagree with that. By the same token, our system is not the worst in the world, either. I think it's fair to describe us as "Good, but could do better."

We do indeed live in a wonderful society filled with abundance and convenience. I sit typing this with a full belly, with a roof over my head and safe drinking water just a few feet away. I'm hooked up to an electronic network that can connect me to my friend in New York for a frivolous natter or to a local emergency center should I be bleeding, under attack or on fire. There are a million different ways I can distract myself, from watching Laurel & Hardy reruns to reading the galaxy's greatest comic to getting pissed out of my tree to attending a God awful Enya concert. I used to love this world; being all wrapped in comfort, ease and privilege. It is an easy world to live in and an easy world to love. It is a powerful world, and it is our duty as part owners of that power to ensure it is wielded fairly and with humanity.

We eventually discover, as we grow and our outlook matures, that there are other countries in the world where people aren't as "lucky" as us. Countries where they have seemingly incessant wars, brutal genocides, blazing droughts and murderous famines. Because we know how lucky we are, we throw a few coppers in charity tins and maybe buy a CD of singers we don't like singing songs we detest using money that isn't ours in aid of a cause we don't fully understand. A lot of clever people swim in and out of focus, wafting like infoghosts across the chattering cyclops telling us that it's all about debt relief or local government corruption or tribal rivalries or shifting climate or the fact that they're all just stupid bloody savages with no concept of how to run a country properly or any one of a myriad other factors that might be to blame.

But you get the feeling that this is all bullshit and that, deep down, it's not just "bad luck" at all but really our fault for allowing Big Banking, Big Business and Big Politics to go raping other people's countries in order to keep us in the lap of luxury - because so long as we have nothing to complain about, those people we put in charge can just keep on getting away with whatever it is they're getting away with.

But the cause doesn't matter, really, does it? Look; pictures of people starving and covered in flies staring uncomprehendingly at the camera to the accompaniment of a rock ballad or bloody Enya. Throw a few coppers at the problem. Money always helps, doesn't it? We all know it's not as simple as that, of course. Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, give a man a fishing rod and he'll eat for life. Right on, man. Groovy cool beans. Don't give cash, give goods because cash just evaporates faster the nearer to the ground it gets.

Anyway, it's not our job to fix the world, is it? We've got our own problems: Crime. Global warming. Immigration. The credit crunch. Iraq. Unemployment. Afghanistan. Global cooling. Public health. Fuel prices. Mortgage rates. Tax. Bills. Speed cameras. Computer viruses. The European Union. A volcano. Enya.

I guess my point is that everyone knows that the world we've got isn't the world any of us would want, but it is the world we deserve. We spend so much time arguing, fucking each other over and listening to Enya that we've taken our eye off the ball. We have no vision for the future. We have become small. We have become a species of Scrooges, grubbing about in the dust and shit for coppers when we should be reaching for the stars.

Now, I bang on a lot about the banks being a vampire attached to the very hearts of many of our societies, bleeding us all just dry enough to keep us quiet. Many people don't believe this, and I understand that. I didn't believe it when I first heard it a couple of years ago. I thought the idea was just mad - as mad as thinking the Royal Family are really shape-shifting space lizards who live off the blood of new born babies and control our minds via CIA operated telepathic satellite transmissions of Enya songs. As I learned more, I didn't want to believe it because the very thought that bankers might actually be doing this for real was (and still is) terrifying to me. Politicians and bankers can't be that corrupt, can they? Somebody would have noticed by now if all this had been going on for as long as people said it had. Abraham Lincoln noticed. So did JFK. They both tried to do something about it and things did not end well for either of them. Luckily, I'm a nobody and not worth shooting (hopefully), but I do have to examine my courage every time I post something like this. Well, I'm sure you can imagine how afraid to speak out you might be if you believed what I believe. I don't talk about this shit for fun, you know.

There is still a part of me, even now, that sometimes tells me I'm being stupid and that this can't possibly be. Then I learn a little bit more (such as the fact that the Bank of England pays 25% of its post tax profits to HM Treasury every year, but there's no mention of what happens to the other 75%) and I am reluctantly reintroduced to what I see as a likely reality. I don't expect anybody to be convinced by me or to follow me or even to take me seriously. All I say is that I believe that this country which I love is being quietly sacked by a small band of powerful European and domestic families who own most of the world's central banks. Because they control the money supply, they are above the law. This is what Meyer Amschel Rothschild meant when he said “Give me control of a country’s money, and I care not who writes its laws.” If your bank tells you that your mortgage has gone up, you pay it or the bank takes your house off you. If your bank tells you it's altering the terms of your mortgage (due to paragraph 56, Heading 44c, Subsection F2, line 8 of the thing you signed fifteen years ago without reading properly) you comply or the bank takes your house off you. This is precisely the position governments have got themselves into with the central banks - if governments don't comply, the banks turn off the money supply. The way out of this is for governments around the world to boot out the central banks and start printing their own debt-free money again.

Now, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm completely and irredeemably cock-out-howling-at-the-moon-in-a-tinfoil-hat loopy, but so what? I exercise my right as a free man in a free country to express whichever views I so choose, be they right or be they wrong. I'm not the only person in the world who believes that the human race is being not only held back but brutally damaged by the banking vampires or corporape interests and I see more and more people waking up to the idea every day. I do not see myself as a revolutionary - Hell, I'm not even interested in politics, to be honest - but I do feel very strongly about this one subject. I see myself only as one insignificant human being pointing and saying "look at that." Whether you look or not is up to you. What you see when you look is also up to you, as is what you may want to do about it.

I could go on and on and on about this (er, and I think I just did), but I don't think that what I say is unreasonable or beyond the bounds of possibility. I am disappointed that none of my parliamentary candidates will even talk about the subject. Does this mean I should forget it and just pick a party that's near enough to my views on everything else except this, even though I firmly believe that unless we change the way our country prints money nothing else actually can change?

So, what have politicians ever done for us? A great deal, and nowhere near enough.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 27 April, 2010, 02:43:59 am
I couldnt give a rats ass about the govt entering my name onto a govt watch list as a potential terrorist or subversive or anything else and i i will continue to speak out against what i see as being wrong as i want to do something useful with my life that contributes something positive and otherwise i dont give a toss about the consequences to myself and history will be the judge of wether i am right or wrong or misguided here.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 27 April, 2010, 08:03:48 am
Well, to be honest, dude, the vast majority of posts on this thread have been various iterations of "im too clever to vote because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME MIRITE!!!!" or "I'm not voting unless they pander solely to my inane and spurious prejudices".


Is that really your perception, Roger? Or are you simply throwing a cat among the pigeons?

If you really think that my reason for not voting is to do with no one following my way (or... prejudices!?), then you really haven't read a word I've written. My reason for not voting is the exact opposite of that - I see the whole concept of voting being about the herd mentality you describe; being able to force others to 'pander solely to [your] inane and spurious prejudices'. For me, to not vote is a rejection of that very concept.   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 27 April, 2010, 09:17:29 am
But Roger isn't describing a herd mentality there - quite the opposite. "im too clever to vote" and "I'm not voting unless they pander solely to my inane and spurious prejudices" speak of a very determined individualism.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 27 April, 2010, 01:09:15 pm
You may have a point there, Usher. I stand corrected.

What I meant by herd mentality, however, is the mob rule principle at the centre of our current understanding of democracy - one party wins and can, therefore, dictate their belief system to every other individual. It's a system I worry about - particularly from the perspective of minority groups. It's also what I am rejecting when I spoil my vote, as opposed to what Roger's understanding seems to be; that of I spoil my vote because none of the parties presenting represent my viewpoint. The system is what I reject, not necessarily the viewpoints held by any parties (some of which I can see as reasonable, others which I see as unreasonable).

I want to be clear on that.  :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 27 April, 2010, 01:38:39 pm
I suppose one could say that our country has an "operating system" that keeps things running in the background. You'll still dial 999 for an ambulance under the Conservatives, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP or the Greens; you'll still get food from a food shop, still get water out of a tap, still have the same speed limits and still drive on the same side of the road.

We could, of course, change our operating system if we so choose, but every four or five years we just vote on changing the desktop theme. Maybe we should run a security program to eliminate viruses, Trojans, rootkits and keyloggers instead? (That's what the Central Banks are, a Trojan nestled at the heart of our Operating System.)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 27 April, 2010, 01:59:54 pm
A wonderful way with words as usual, Shark. Very well put! :)

And let me also add - how much of the operating system's programs do we actually (or could we actually) run/ maintain ourselves without any help (or worse; only pesky intereference/ taxation/ ruination!) from gubment?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 27 April, 2010, 02:10:44 pm
You should just have bought a Mac.  Then you'd never need to worry about what was going on under the hood.  Just like North Korea did.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 27 April, 2010, 02:12:02 pm
It makes me quite angry when i think about what these idiots are doing to the people of this country and the US and especially the US because they are having a very hard time of it at present and how they think we are all too stupid to notice or care but the fact is that some of us are not stupid and we do care about what is happening and that we are watching them all the time but none of it would be possible without the internet and its the internet that is creating a revolution of minds because its all about information and awareness.

How dare these politicians and globalists and bankers try to steal and ruin our future and our childrens future.

How dare they do that ?

I might be just one individual typing on a keyboard and i dont know how much difference i can make but i am NOT tolerating or accepting it.I either do that or just completely ignore and wash my hands of the whole thing but i dont think that i could do that even if i wanted to.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 27 April, 2010, 02:19:47 pm
Join the Wolfshark Party for a better world!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 27 April, 2010, 07:07:08 pm
Join the Wolfshark Party for a better world!

It probably would be as well.I think that humanity deserves better than what is on the table at present and we are being held back from reaching our true potential both individually and as a collective and all you can do in the meantime is not allow yourself to be sucked into it all and try and do the right thing for yourself and everyone else.You sound like you have come into this a lot later than i did and in some ways i often wonder if i would be better off just being some dumb idiot who doesnt give a shit about it all and maybe i would be happier [not that i am unhappy in any way] just being in my own little world and thinking to hell with it all but i am not because i have gone too far down the rabbit hole as it were to turn back now.A lot of it as you know is very very negative and i think you have to have to have a lot of inner strenth and be very well balanced spiritually to be able to take it all in without being affected by it in whatever way.

All that is offset by the fact that you and i really can make a difference but that wouldnt be possible without the internet which initially was a product of military research and development for military applications so i thank them for that and really my main interest in life is seeing an end to this system rather than anything else that revolves around self interest.

I dont know if we are only here once in this life and thats it but i can relax knowing that i tried to do the right thing and without being delusional or narcissistic i feel that it is partly what i am here for.I just felt from a very young age that there was just something very wrong about the world i live in without knowing why and in 1987 when conservatives were re-elected there bean the beginning of my experience with depression.

When i was very young growing up in the 70s and 80s i used to see all these politicians on TV like Kissinger and all the rest of them and there was just something about them that was wrong or evil and i could see it in their eyes and i just felt like there was something very wrong about it all and it wasnt until i was about 30 that i started to look into it all.

I am very glad and very relieved that people are waking up to it all because we cant carry on like this.Everyone must realise deep down inside that this system we live under is all Bs and is all built on deception and lies and i am taking what is rightfullly mine because this life is too precious to have it ruined by a load of inbred parasitical greedy control freaks and i dont know if there is a hell but if there is there are places reserved for them.

Apologies for babbling on.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Emperor on 27 April, 2010, 07:16:29 pm
Well I've just voted, so I am making it official that political parties can stop pushing crap through my door and no longer need to clutter up the TV with party political broadcasts. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 27 April, 2010, 07:39:08 pm
Well I've just voted, so I am making it official that political parties can stop pushing crap through my door and no longer need to clutter up the TV with party political broadcasts. Thanks.

How can you vote when the election isnt until May 6th ?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 27 April, 2010, 07:54:13 pm
Postal voting, methinks...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 27 April, 2010, 07:59:38 pm
More and more people are voting by post as they can't, or don't want to, bothr schleppping to the polling station on the day. I've started seeing lost of posters in windows saying "already voted - no more leaflets please". It's also much more open to corruption however

PS - the UKIP dig wasn't aimed at you but at those daily-mail types who froth at the mouth over all those made-up stories about Brussels outlawing bendy bananas, and christmas being banned to appease muslims etc.

A few selections from Wiki about UKIP - you can look into it further if you wish:
"Controversy over proposed constitution changes In December 2008 the NEC proposed two significant amendments to the UKIP Constitution ... some members claiming that their purpose was to prevent members from voting on party business and to allow the unelected Party Chairman to expel members without a hearing. ...[and] centralise more power within the leadership and to reduce democracy and accountability in the party."
Nigel Farage expenses disclosure...UKIP's leader, Nigel Farage had said in a speech to the Foreign Press Association that over ten years as a member of the European Parliament he used nearly £2 million of taxpayers' money in expenses and allowances, on top of his £64,000 a year salary."
UKIP racism controversyUKIP's London chair, Paul Wiffen, was suspended as Chairman of the London region over "racist remarks" made on the social work website Community Care...Frank Maloney UKIP's 2004 London Mayoral candidate and a 2010 General Election candidate was once described as a "dangerous racist"[22] and said to be promoting "Griffin-like racism".[23]. His campaign manager Gary Cartwright[24], ...was a regular contributor to holocaust denier David Irving's historical revisionist Focal Point website"
Unlawful donations UKIP accepted over £360 000 in donations from bookmaker Alan Bown and Nightech Limited between 2004 and 2006. The Electoral Commission took the party to court over the matter, as Bown was not on the electoral register and thus not allowed to make donations to a political party.

A breath of frsha air? Nah, just more of the same. That was just from a brief surfing, I'm sure if you dig further you'll unceover much more shit about them (if you want to)

IMHO, they're just tories who are too extreme to be a member of the main party, and while there is nothing explicitly racist in their output (even the BNP is good at not saying explicitly racist things) there's an undercurrent to them that just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.






Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Emperor on 27 April, 2010, 08:04:17 pm
Well I've just voted, so I am making it official that political parties can stop pushing crap through my door and no longer need to clutter up the TV with party political broadcasts. Thanks.

How can you vote when the election isnt until May 6th ?

Special Imperial Dispensations - it takes a while for my 10,000 votes to be transported from the Moon and it requires extra counting too.

Or... you know, what Sharky says:

Postal voting, methinks...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Emperor on 27 April, 2010, 08:11:02 pm
More and more people are voting by post as they can't, or don't want to, bothr schleppping to the polling station on the day.

Or you walked to the polling station you've used for years and they won't let you vote because they claim you've been moved to another polling station and no amount of explaining that I'd always voted there helped resolve the situation in my favour. If they are going to go round trying to confuse me then I'm having none of their silly system.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 27 April, 2010, 10:42:01 pm
David Cameron promising to fire teachers who give exam marks for writing Fuck off! discussed here:

http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26559.0.html (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26559.0.html)


Needless to say he's just attacking a straw man. He'll be promising to clear the Hundred Acre Wood of heffalumps and woozles next.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 28 April, 2010, 03:18:15 am
David Cameron promising to fire teachers who give exam marks for writing Fuck off! discussed here:

http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26559.0.html (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26559.0.html)


Needless to say he's just attacking a straw man. He'll be promising to clear the Hundred Acre Wood of heffalumps and woozles next.

Surely it makes more sense to not fire teachers for giving exam marks for exam papers that have fuck off written on them and help them to become better teachers by changing the ludicrous criteria as dictated to the teachers by OFSTED and the National Curriculum?

Why not attack a symptom of the problem instead of the cause ?

All that misplaced and misdirected righteous anger of a career politician on the election campaign trail.
i think i have heard all this type of thing before somewhere.

Is this a taste of what is potentially to come ?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 28 April, 2010, 04:01:09 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1waGanUNt0


 :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 28 April, 2010, 08:47:06 am
He'll be promising to clear the Hundred Acre Wood of heffalumps and woozles next.

This excellent jibe is sadly undermined by the appearance of Heffalumps in The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, for which crime I hope someone was shot at dawn.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Noisybast on 28 April, 2010, 01:29:07 pm
The following Facebook exchange between me and my cousin could just as easily have appeared on the "Stupid Things Peole Have Said To You" thread:


E**a H*****s
WHICH PARTY WILL YOU VOTE FOR AT THE MAY GENERAL ELECTION ? : BNP

POLICIES: IMMIGRATION – time to say ENOUGH! On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identit...

Yesterday at 19:08 via 2010 U.K. Mock Election, Opinion Poll  · Comment · LikeUnlike · 2010 U.K. Mock Election,

Matt Nicholson
You do know the "native British people" are long gone, don't you? I mean, even the Anglo Saxons were immigrants...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_People

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people
37 minutes ago ·

E**a H*****s
Yeah but at least they shown respect. The other parties are useless and never stick to their word, and the fact of the matter is they haven’t monitored the issue, the country is over crowded and there is too much of a strain.
31 minutes ago

Matt Nicholson
Oh dear. Think I'm going to put this can of worms down before it gets spilled...
about a minute ago ·


Seriously - is there an emoticon for "open-mouthed with facepalm-inducing gobsmackery"? I wonder if Tordelback can confirm my cousin's theory that the Anglo Saxons only popped round to borrow a cup of sugar?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 28 April, 2010, 01:31:10 pm
Gordon Brown would probably say your cousin is bigoted... ;-)

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Noisybast on 28 April, 2010, 01:40:28 pm
Send us all back where we came from, that's what I say...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 28 April, 2010, 01:57:57 pm
Dear Daily Mail,

Bloody locals, lazing around my country letting foreigners do all the hard work! It's a disgrace. They're obviously not working nearly hard enough to pay proper taxes because my benefit payments are a fecking disgrace so I can't laze around in peace any more. Whip the buggers, I say! Give 'em the lash! Make 'em put their bloody backs into it!

Confused of Godalming.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Noisybast on 28 April, 2010, 02:21:32 pm
Heh, I think someone else must have chimed in - her original post and all subsequent replies have been deleted! :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 28 April, 2010, 02:44:09 pm
I wonder if Tordelback can confirm my cousin's theory that the Anglo Saxons only popped round to borrow a cup of sugar?

Heh.  I've long suspected that most English people believe themselves to be direct descendants of the Romans (the ones with the RSC accents off of I Claudius, not those Eytie ones from the Med), rather than any of those squalid Germanic tribes.  It is quite amusing as an outsider watching the agonisingly inane UK election coverage to see immigration be listed as One of the Top 2 Issues of The Election.  Looking at the actual news (rather than self-serving vox-pop) it's very hard to believe that it could even be in the Top 20.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 28 April, 2010, 03:33:44 pm
Just for your pleasure  ;)

Royal Mail created a stamp with a picture of the Prime Minister on it.
The stamp was not sticking to envelopes. 
This enraged the Prime Minister, who demanded a full investigation.
After a month of testing and spending £1.1M, a Special Commission presented the following three findings:

1. The stamp is in perfect order.
2. There is nothing wrong with the adhesive.
3. People are spitting on the wrong side of the stamp


I thank you!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 28 April, 2010, 03:48:20 pm
Gordon Brown would probably say your cousin is bigoted... ;-)

M@

Sheesh! Gordon Brown can't do anything right, can he?

Poor sod.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 28 April, 2010, 03:50:46 pm
attending a God awful Enya concert.

to the accompaniment of a rock ballad or bloody Enya.

We've got our own problems: Crime. Global warming. Immigration. ... A volcano. Enya.

fucking each other over and listening to Enya

CIA operated telepathic satellite transmissions of Enya songs.

Ummm. I know I'm about two pages behind the curve, but do ya think the Shark has a bit of a crush on someone??

OK. OK. I know it's a serious thread. Happy day that Mr Wolf is finding messages from the Lib Dems that appeal, that HooHaa remains true to his anarchism and that debate can thrive, even if it gets tetchy from time to time.

No point to make (sorry), just appreciation for the thread :-)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 28 April, 2010, 03:56:59 pm
Gordon Brown would probably say your cousin is bigoted... ;-)

M@

Sheesh! Gordon Brown can't do anything right, can he?

Poor sod.

Incapability Brown.

Gordon BrNWO.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 28 April, 2010, 04:01:02 pm
"Incapability Brown!"

Ha ha ha! Genius!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 28 April, 2010, 04:04:47 pm
Did you hear the news last night. Greece have been rated as 'Junk Bond Status' and the world trembles. The 'PIGS' countries will drag Europe down if 'WE' don't all step in and prop them up  ::)

This is what Europe is all about, spend, spend, spend, on failing countries, will this madness never end!

I was always told not to throw good money after bad but it seems countries can do this all the time, with our money!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Emperor on 28 April, 2010, 04:08:03 pm
Send us all back where we came from, that's what I say...

I was born in Cyprus, I await my free airline ticket. As a British citizen they can't stop me sneaking back in again, so they could keep sending me back, once a year in the Winter, when it is cooler, would be lovely thanks. Do I apply to Nick Griffin now?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 28 April, 2010, 04:10:09 pm
This wouldn't be happening if sovereign states reclaimed the responsibility of printing their own... er, haven't I said this already? I forget.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Noisybast on 28 April, 2010, 06:09:41 pm
Gordon Brown would probably say your cousin is bigoted... ;-)

M@

Heh heh heh. Having finally caught the news, Everything becomes clear!
I think the soft sod just lost Rochdale...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 28 April, 2010, 06:52:35 pm
I thoroughly enjoyed that on the news tonight, let Labour spin out of that  :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is what people in power think of us lot, we are the shit on the sole of their shoes. He only apologised because he was found out, I wonder how many other life long labour supporters he thinks are shits.

Anyway that old woman will still vote labour as it's in her blood, so he'll be happy!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 28 April, 2010, 07:39:17 pm
I thoroughly enjoyed that on the news tonight, let Labour spin out of that  :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is what people in power think of us lot, we are the shit on the sole of their shoes. He only apologised because he was found out, I wonder how many other life long labour supporters he thinks are shits.

Just got in, so this sent me off to the BBC website. I wouldn't be surprised if this costs him more than Rochdale.

Funnily enough, his apology annoys me more than what he said (which doesn't actually bother me at all) - if you said it, Brown, that's what think, so have the courage to stand by your opinion. It's not as if you're unwilling to stand by a lot of other unpopular things.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 28 April, 2010, 07:39:49 pm
Isn't it great to watch a politician squirm. To watch that clip from the Jeremy Vine show was priceless.






VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 28 April, 2010, 07:49:28 pm


Just got in, so this sent me off to the BBC website. I wouldn't be surprised if this costs him more than Rochdale.



lets hope so because i dont think i could stand another 5 years of that stupid clown as PM.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 28 April, 2010, 07:57:36 pm
I know he's rubbish and everything but I do genuinely feel a little bit sorry for him sometimes.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 28 April, 2010, 08:01:07 pm
I can see what you mean, Blair must be pissing himself laughing!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 28 April, 2010, 08:02:21 pm
That'd be the ideal way to top it off - 'phone camera footage of Blair literally pissing himself.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Zarjazzer on 28 April, 2010, 08:59:58 pm
 Clearly it's an ambush by a bigoted, shameless, self- promoter who hates everyone.
 Poor Misses Duffy. ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 28 April, 2010, 11:10:42 pm
This wouldn't be happening if sovereign states reclaimed the responsibility of printing their own... er, haven't I said this already? I forget.

Weimar Germany used to print loads.  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 29 April, 2010, 12:14:59 am
This wouldn't be happening if sovereign states reclaimed the responsibility of printing their own... er, haven't I said this already? I forget.

Weimar Germany used to print loads.  ;)

Weimar germany was forced to print loads because of WW1 reperations that they were forced to pay out.

I am not sure wether Germany was controlled by the Rothschild international banking cartel/Anglo-Dutch banking cartel at that point but they certainly were by the time Hitler was in power but i would guess that they were.

If that is the case then Germany didnt have control of its own banking system and the printing of paper money.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 29 April, 2010, 12:52:13 am
Yep, the insane inflation of Weimar Germany certainly worked to the long term advantage of Europe as a whole.  AFAICS there is no real difference between extreme devaluation of a 'sovereign' currency and debt default of one state within a single currency from the point of view of that state's neighbours.  They'll end up having to deal with the mess either way.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 29 April, 2010, 04:23:13 pm
This wouldn't be happening if sovereign states reclaimed the responsibility of printing their own... er, haven't I said this already? I forget.

Here you are LS:


http://www.prisonplanet.com/trichet-calls-for-corrupt-bis-to-boss-global-government-in-cfr-speech.html


Crisis creation - Crisis reaction - Crisis resolution/solution - Crisis prevention.

Cockroaches.



Did you hear the news last night. Greece have been rated as 'Junk Bond Status' and the world trembles. The 'PIGS' countries will drag Europe down if 'WE' don't all step in and prop them up  ::)

This is what Europe is all about, spend, spend, spend, on failing countries, will this madness never end!

I was always told not to throw good money after bad but it seems countries can do this all the time, with our money!

Here we go........

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eurozone-edges-closer-to-endgame-as-greek-contagion-hits-portugal-1956203.html


The EU Empire has spread itself too thin and is more interested in swallowing up countries without thinking about the consequences of it all.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 29 April, 2010, 06:19:29 pm
http://www.ted.com/talks/omar_ahmad_political_change_with_pen_and_paper.html/
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 29 April, 2010, 08:42:56 pm
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dw9J36mHOmQ/S9WJv4ed1TI/AAAAAAAAALM/jkUFqs4eX8g/s400/Screen+shot+2010-04-26+at+1.39.43+PM.png)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 29 April, 2010, 09:31:13 pm
The lunatics have taken over the asylum :

http://climateresponsefund.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:uk-house-of-commons-qthe-regulation-of-geoengineeringq&catid=38:climate-intervention-news&Itemid=63
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 29 April, 2010, 09:51:06 pm
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dw9J36mHOmQ/S9WJv4ed1TI/AAAAAAAAALM/jkUFqs4eX8g/s400/Screen+shot+2010-04-26+at+1.39.43+PM.png)

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 29 April, 2010, 10:06:07 pm
The lunatics have taken over the asylum :

http://climateresponsefund.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:uk-house-of-commons-qthe-regulation-of-geoengineeringq&catid=38:climate-intervention-news&Itemid=63

I don't get it - this seems to be saying that countries should not be allowed to unilaterally launch "geo-engineering" projects, that may affect the climate of the whole world, and that we need regulation to stop such potentially irresponsible ventures. You disagree?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 29 April, 2010, 10:26:54 pm
Cameron was all over the bloody place tonight, used buzzwords and scaremongering as a crutch like nobody's business.

Clegg was middling for a bit but shot off a couple swift bitchslaps to both the Tories and Labour, I'm quite sure his consistently good performance over the three debates will be reflected in the polls tomorrow.

Brown actually held his own tonight, despite battling to get over Bigotgate, and he almost had me thinking seriously about Labour for once during his closing statement until he did that. fucking. smile. I swear I shit a little.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 29 April, 2010, 10:41:59 pm
Brown worst mannerism is when he sucks his bottom lip over his teeth. It really grates me.

To the Bigoted British public.
(http://www.treehugger.com/gordon-brown-community.jpg)







VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 29 April, 2010, 11:28:18 pm
Brown planning to "compel" people to work, Cameron broadly agreeing. Compel? A democratic government wants to compel its people?


Arbeit macht frei?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 29 April, 2010, 11:49:04 pm
The lunatics have taken over the asylum :

http://climateresponsefund.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:uk-house-of-commons-qthe-regulation-of-geoengineeringq&catid=38:climate-intervention-news&Itemid=63

I don't get it - this seems to be saying that countries should not be allowed to unilaterally launch "geo-engineering" projects, that may affect the climate of the whole world, and that we need regulation to stop such potentially irresponsible ventures. You disagree?

Thats fair enough in principle but that wasnt my point as my point was that it should not be permitted under ANY circumatance whatsoever wether its unregulated or regulated.

It should be unilaterrally banned. [not to mention the fact that it is already happening unofficially.]


Period.

Brown planning to "compel" people to work, Cameron broadly agreeing. Compel? A democratic government wants to compel its people?


Arbeit macht frei?

I really dont want to get started on that but the longer everyone just accepts this kind of thing then the longer it will continue and the cutbacks wont start till after the election as they are saving all that till you have all voted them in and there is nothing you can do about it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 30 April, 2010, 08:20:50 am
The EU Empire has spread itself too thin and is more interested in swallowing up countries without thinking about the consequences of it all.

Um, are you suggesting that Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland (to which the linked article refers) have no place in the EU?  I was under the impression that the inclusion of the 'peripheral' countries in a single market that already included the industrialised heartland was pretty much the original goal of the community project.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 30 April, 2010, 09:52:26 am
The lunatics have taken over the asylum :

http://climateresponsefund.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:uk-house-of-commons-qthe-regulation-of-geoengineeringq&catid=38:climate-intervention-news&Itemid=63

I don't get it - this seems to be saying that countries should not be allowed to unilaterally launch "geo-engineering" projects, that may affect the climate of the whole world, and that we need regulation to stop such potentially irresponsible ventures. You disagree?

Thats fair enough in principle but that wasnt my point as my point was that it should not be permitted under ANY circumatance whatsoever wether its unregulated or regulated.

It should be unilaterrally banned. [not to mention the fact that it is already happening unofficially.


A unilateral ban would be pointless - if GB said we're banning it, any other country could go ahead. The article proposes a GLOBAL framework of regulations that would prevent ANY country unilaterally launching such a project.

But that would require some sort of international body, representing every counttry in the world, with the powers to implement, monitor and if necessary enforce such a ban, such as ....errr... the United Nations - and I know how much you love that organisation!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: LARF on 30 April, 2010, 12:34:48 pm
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47752000/jpg/_47752203_brown226250in_ap.jpg)

Vote for the Fonz! Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...

(finally proving that Brown has 'jumped the Shark!')
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 30 April, 2010, 01:22:57 pm
Oy...



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 30 April, 2010, 05:33:08 pm
Brown planning to "compel" people to work, Cameron broadly agreeing. Compel? A democratic government wants to compel its people?

Well, in all seriousness, given the reality that there are some people who will cheerfully live on benefit payments and make no effort to find work or won't accept work they can do when it's offered on a plate, how would you resolve this problem?

(I'm making an assumption about the context here, so sorry if I'm off the mark.)


Quote
Arbeit macht frei?

I think that's a bit OTT.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 30 April, 2010, 06:06:56 pm
Couldn't help but notice that an 'Al Ewing' was quoted in the Times today concerning last night's party leader debate. Co-inky-dink or the man himself?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 30 April, 2010, 06:18:54 pm
That was me, in relation to something that was happening on screen right at that moment, which is why it looks so flaccid and lifeless now that some hack at Murdoch's shitrag's decided to nick it to fill some space. Anyone following me on the basis of that will have got a near-incoherent rant about yellow journalists eating babies this morning.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 30 April, 2010, 06:26:32 pm
The EU Empire has spread itself too thin and is more interested in swallowing up countries without thinking about the consequences of it all.

Um, are you suggesting that Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland (to which the linked article refers) have no place in the EU?  I was under the impression that the inclusion of the 'peripheral' countries in a single market that already included the industrialised heartland was pretty much the original goal of the community project.

No i am not but they were let into the single currency [EURO] while not being finacially solvent to varying degrees which was always going to be storing up problems for later on so it wasnt thought out properly at all.These countries are absorbed into the EU partly on the basis that the EU has been all about expanding its empire as much as possible without out any other consideration other than that.These countries were all insolvent to varying degrees when they first joined and since then the entire designed to fail economies of every other country within the EU have now also become insolvent including the UK.

So the way i see it the whole thing was a trap financially unless Greece decides to leave the Eurozone and its a house of cards because if other countries follow on from Greece then we have a problem because it will not be financially sustainable to bail them all out so this in turn will leave these countries open to be abused and exploited by the IMF [right where they want them] and besides that the EU themselves havent got any real solutions to this problem in the long term as they cant agree among themselves who should pay what which is why i say it wasnt thought out properly in the first place.

So no i am not saying those countries dont have any place in the EU but rather that the whole single currency thing is ill conceived because it doesnt take countries going bankrupt or adverse economic conditions into account and it didnt have a plan already worked out in advance or they didnt see it coming or they did but they let Greece join regardless.

Also if these countries go bankrupt or already are then it either means they have to borrow more money to keep paying into the EU or it will cost the other EU member states who are also in varying degrees of bankruptcy/insolvency more money on top of what they pay into it already.

Which is exactly what is already happening.



Its just a very costly mistake.
Brown planning to "compel" people to work, Cameron broadly agreeing. Compel? A democratic government wants to compel its people?

Well, in all seriousness, given the reality that there are some people who will cheerfully live on benefit payments and make no effort to find work or won't accept work they can do when it's offered on a plate, how would you resolve this problem?





Regards

Robin

Thats very true.Having said that these politicians will always pick the easy and soft targets when it comes to making spending cuts if its not applied selectively and used against the unemployed in general.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 30 April, 2010, 07:45:13 pm
The EU Empire has spread itself too thin and is more interested in swallowing up countries without thinking about the consequences of it all.

Um, are you suggesting that Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland (to which the linked article refers) have no place in the EU?  I was under the impression that the inclusion of the 'peripheral' countries in a single market that already included the industrialised heartland was pretty much the original goal of the community project.

Apologies for double posting but its exactly the same thinking and methodology at work in the EU in terms of increasing its membership/empire as it is with NATO who accept all those ex-soviet satellite nations into NATO despite the fact that they contribute virtually nothing in terms of additional military capability because its all strategic and an alternative to letting them be absorbed by Russia all over again.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 30 April, 2010, 09:11:45 pm
UKIP .... would exit the UK from the EU and save the taxpayer up to 120 billion a year.

The Guardian are doing a series of those worthy but boring supplements all week, chock full of graphs and statistics about Britain today. From today's:

What Britain put into the EU in 2008 (after the rebate*):
£6.08 bn

What the EU put into Britain in 2008:
£5.84bn

(*This is the £4.96bn rebate that Thatcher insisted on because of the relatively small size of our agricultural sector)

But I'm sure UKIP have more 'creative' accounting methods when it comes to statistics!

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 30 April, 2010, 10:52:57 pm
Mmm, UKIP do like to fudge facts, but don't all the parties really?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 30 April, 2010, 10:57:47 pm
So membership of the EU costs us about a third of a Millennium Dome every year?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 01 May, 2010, 12:48:32 am
Is this a simple journalistic error ?
UKIP .... would exit the UK from the EU and save the taxpayer up to 120 billion a year.

The Guardian are doing a series of those worthy but boring supplements all week, chock full of graphs and statistics about Britain today. From today's:

What Britain put into the EU in 2008 (after the rebate*):
£6.08 bn

What the EU put into Britain in 2008:
£5.84bn

(*This is the £4.96bn rebate that Thatcher insisted on because of the relatively small size of our agricultural sector)

But I'm sure UKIP have more 'creative' accounting methods when it comes to statistics!



Where you quoted me for saying it costs 120 billion i cant believe that i said that :-[ :lol:.I wasnt trying to deceive anyone because thats just outlandish !

I must have added a 0 and was meant to say 12 billion which was an approx figure and the gross contribution and i can say that neither UKIP or anyone else claims that we pay 120 billion per year.Thanks for correcting that.

The gross UK EU contribution in 2009 was approx 14 billion or 14.5 billion.

UKIP were basing their 40 million per day cost to the UK taxpayer on the gross UK contribution rather than the net contribution to the EU.

So the net cost to the UK that it pays to the EU is 13 million per day - 4.6 billion per year in 2009.

Tony Blair signed away a large amount of our Thatcher rebate so next year our net contribution will increase by 60 percent.

The cash that is given back to us is given to all these organisations like the Regional Development Fund and the European Social Fund and all kinds of things  so the cash benefits the public/taxpayer directly or indirectly or not at all.Whatever.

I complain about the cost of it but it is peanuts compared to the bigger picture when you consider that the toal contributed by income tax alone approx 155 billion in 2009 alone and if the argument against the EU was just based on costs to the UK taxpayer there wouldnt be much of an argument but its more than that.

Also these are official figures so they are not necessarily 100 percent accurate.

Also my point about the Third Sector wasnt right either because that includes a lot of wothwhile charities and non-profit organisations but i should have said it was ceertain sections of the private sector thast are feeding off the taxpayer like consultancies and quangos and that type of thing and not charities etc.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 01 May, 2010, 12:59:48 am
when you consider that the toal contributed by income tax alone approx 155 billion in 2009 alone and if the argument against the EU was just based on costs to the UK taxpayer there wouldnt be much of an argument but its more than that.



That should have read as "the total contributed to govt by income tax alone is approx 155 billion"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 01 May, 2010, 04:21:08 am
I forgot about this :

http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacentre/?article=14036


Apparently the EU creates one million + jobs so its an expensive way of creating employment.

And then theres this 120 billion :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:c9TT0dlQIaQJ:euobserver.com/19/29961+uk+contributes+120+billion+to+the+eu&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 01 May, 2010, 03:09:18 pm
Dear Mark J.,

Our poll results are in - over 90% of us want to stop the scaremongering about a hung parliament. So the campaign starts now!

The tabloid press is doing all it can to skew the election result by bullying and scaring voters. [1] The political editor of The Sun has been given clear instructions from Rupert Murdoch: "It is my job to see that Cameron f****g well gets into Downing Street" [2]. Murdoch and his tabloid press friends think they've got the right to decide who governs us.

Together we can stand up for our right to choose who we vote for and expose this cynical manipulation. Let's shame the tabloids, and prove to the rest of the media that we won't buy their spin.

Please sign the petition now and forward this message to stop this media scaremongering:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/hung_parliament

Right now the media scaremongering is dominating the airwaves. But we know that millions of us want to cast our votes with hope - of a better politics and more balanced parliament. A massive outcry by tens of thousands of us will help shift the debate.

Numbers matter here, so we're teaming up with Avaaz.org. In total there are half a million of us - if enough of us get involved and spread the word we can break the tabloid stranglehold. By acting now, we can make sure we don't wake up on May 7th to hear Rupert Murdoch gloat again that "it was the Sun wot won it".

We can show we're not going to sit by and let right-wing media barons decide who runs the country. Sign the petition now:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/hung_parliament

A hung parliament carries its own uncertainties and risks. But it also spells opportunities - for a more balanced parliament, reform to the voting system, and a different way of doing politics. [3] For many of us, it looks like it might be our best bet for changing politics for the better. But whoever we end up voting for, it should be us the voters, not foreign media barons, who call the shots in this election.

The tabloid editors are rattled. Polls suggest voters may defy them and refuse to vote in their chosen party. [4] That means right now they'll be planning to step up their dirty tricks in the final days of the campaign. A huge petition from 38 Degrees and Avaaz, defending our right to choose our own political destiny, could create a buzz on the internet and throw their plans off-course.

Add your voice now by clicking here, then please forward this message to all your friends:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/hung_parliament

Thanks for getting involved,

David, Hannah, Johnny, Nina and the 38 Degrees Team

P.S. Create your own hung parliament scare story with our "Tabloid headline generator" at http://labs.38degrees.org.uk/headline/and we can add some of the best to the website.

 

NOTES

[1]see for example: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/election2010/2942670/Election-2010-The-no-win-nightmare.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=Election+2010

[2]  http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2010/05/murdoch-clegg-cameron-paper

[3]  http://www.charter2010.co.uk/news/who-says-hung-parliaments-cant-be-effective

[4]  http://charter2010.co.uk/news/yougov-shows-53pc-hoping-hung-parliament
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 01 May, 2010, 03:20:03 pm
I've signed it. I don't know how much good it will do to 'shame' Murdoch - he has none - but it's worth it for the principle of the thing.

These are human vultures who feed off the fears they create, who breed ignorance to increase their own power, who've turned 'journalism' into a dirty word, and Murdoch is the prime offender. Dacre needs a slap too, mind. Until we get a Press Complaints Commission with any teeth to it, this will have to do.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 01 May, 2010, 05:24:01 pm


The tabloid press is doing all it can to skew the election result by bullying and scaring voters. [1] The political editor of The Sun has been given clear instructions from Rupert Murdoch: "It is my job to see that Cameron f****g well gets into Downing Street" [2]. Murdoch and his tabloid press friends think they've got the right to decide who governs us.

Together we can stand up for our right to choose who we vote for and expose this cynical manipulation. Let's shame the tabloids, and prove to the rest of the media that we won't buy their spin.




I have been totally avoiding the tabloid prole media completely and i dont even look at the covers.

I like the sound of a hung parliament though.

 ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 01 May, 2010, 05:33:15 pm
Roger's Momma's hoping for a well hung parliament.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 01 May, 2010, 05:35:42 pm
Roger's Momma's hoping for a well hung parliament.

Groan............................and I bet she will  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 01 May, 2010, 05:43:52 pm
I want a well hung parliament as well and they should be left hanging for at least 1 week.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 05 May, 2010, 01:59:06 pm
I'm going to be honest here; I'm rather scared by the idea of a Conservative government.

While I don't doubt that they have the best interests of the country at heart, they serve certain classes more than others, have an incredibly murky funding source, are known for political cockblocking because it doesn't fit in with their plans, and see the world through a middle class middle Englander filter.

Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 05 May, 2010, 02:06:41 pm
Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.

You can kiss goodbye to the BBC under a Conservative government which, on its own, is enough to keep me from voting for them.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 05 May, 2010, 02:22:21 pm
Damn bloody right.

Cameron is Murdoch's puppet. Along with ripping the BBC to pieces,he'll relax OfCom so SKY can charge far more for their services and allow for more blatantly biased media. Basically, we'll end up with a television equivalent of The Daily Mail, or at the very least the Telegraph.

By the way, for anybody still thinking the Conservatives will usher in a new 'golden age', take a look at this: http://johannhari.com//2010/05/05/welcome-to-cameron-land (http://johannhari.com//2010/05/05/welcome-to-cameron-land)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 05 May, 2010, 03:36:30 pm
You can kiss goodbye to the BBC under a Conservative government which, on its own, is enough to keep me voting for them.

Cheers

Jim

Well said Jim  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 05 May, 2010, 03:41:05 pm
I don't want to be a dick, CF, but if my words are inside a quote tag, I'd appreciate it if they were my words, and if they've been edited (for humorous effect or otherwise), I'd like it to be quite clear that this is the case -- you could have left the word "from" in and used the strikethrough tag, for example.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 05 May, 2010, 03:55:49 pm
"Re: The Royal Charter of the BBC, & the Treason & Felony Act, 1848
Notice Before Action.

It has been brought to my attention that the Corporation has received and is now receiving substantial amounts of funding from the European Union, in breach of Charter Provisions, and that in consequence of this very suspect arrangement the BBC is now reduced to the function of providing both broadcasting & propaganda facilities to a form of alien authority that fails to acknowledge the Supreme Authority of the British Crown.

I must advise you that all such conduct serves to breach the provisions of the Treason Act, 1351 with the further provisions of the Treason & Felony Act, 1848.

In addition, I must advise that the Treason & Felony Act of 1848 provides that it is a Criminal Offence for Subjects of the Crown to give aid or comfort to Traitors, and that this offence is punishable by imprisonment for life.

I am concerned for my own position and I must ask you to cease and desist from all treacherous conduct & financial arrangements, without delay.

Unless I receive your written assurance that the Corporation will issue an immediate public apology for all Treason committed thus far, with your further guarantee that the Corporation will cease and desist from all and any conduct that fails to maintain the Supremacy of the British Crown, then I must give fair warning of my intention to discontinue the payment of all such moneys as are now being applied to the financial support of the BBC."


From here: http://www.tpuc.org/stoppayingtvlicencefees

I make no comment other than to draw your attention to this. What, if anything, you do with this information is entirely up to you.


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 05 May, 2010, 04:01:40 pm
No Probs Jim, I'll remember that for the next time  :-X

Just look forward to demise of the war mongering party being pushed out of office on the 6th, that's all I'll say  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 05 May, 2010, 04:06:24 pm
I'm going to be honest here; I'm rather scared by the idea of a Conservative government.



Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.

I dont think you will find that any of them are very different to each other and i have NO faith in the LibLabCon but my main worry is Nick Clegg taking this country into the Euro which is a major mistake and another financial trap that the UK could well do without.

No Probs Jim, I'll remember that for the next time  :-X

Just look forward to demise of the war mongering party being pushed out of office on the 6th, that's all I'll say  ;)

Thats until the next warmongering party gets elected whose foreign policy is dictated to them by their friends in Bilderberg and the CFR and the Trilateral Commission.

*
"Re: The Royal Charter of the BBC, & the Treason & Felony Act, 1848
Notice Before Action.

It has been brought to my attention that the Corporation has received and is now receiving substantial amounts of funding from the European Union, in breach of Charter Provisions, and that in consequence of this very suspect arrangement the BBC is now reduced to the function of providing both broadcasting & propaganda facilities to a form of alien authority that fails to acknowledge the Supreme Authority of the British Crown.


I make no comment other than to draw your attention to this. What, if anything, you do with this information is entirely up to you.




We can thank New Labour for all that not to mention  that the BBC is rife with Common/Communist Purpose members.




Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 05 May, 2010, 04:15:49 pm
I compare the Labour Party to an old car. It's been going a while but for the last dozen years it's costing more and more to run because when you come to think of it, it's bloody well clapped out and will just eat all your spare cash and you won't get any further down the road with it.

Time to trade in for a new model, just this time I'll be making sure it isn't red!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Noisybast on 05 May, 2010, 08:03:44 pm
I'm finding the idea of someone I otherwise think well of voting for those evil blue bastards quite hard to deal with. Is this normal?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 05 May, 2010, 08:08:19 pm
I shall be taking a picture of my x tomorrow and posting it on here, I expect all to follow  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 05 May, 2010, 09:26:26 pm
I'm finding the idea of someone I otherwise think well of voting for those evil blue bastards quite hard to deal with. Is this normal?

Normal and understandable.

This was just brought to my attention:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poverty-and-injustice-in-david-cameronrsquos-model-borough-1962318.html


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 05 May, 2010, 09:26:57 pm
I'm going to be honest here; I'm rather scared by the idea of a Conservative government.



Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.

I dont think you will find that any of them are very different to each other and i have NO faith in the LibLabCon but my main worry is Nick Clegg taking this country into the Euro which is a major mistake and another financial trap that the UK could well do without.

Clegg has stated time and time again that he will only consider going into the Euro if the circumstances are absolutely perfect, and even then a referendum will be held in order to let the country decide. LibDems actually listen to people's opinions on a regular basis, and not just when the Daily Mail brigade spring into action like Labour (and the Conservatives too, well, if they weren't the best of chums).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 05 May, 2010, 09:39:42 pm
I'm going to be honest here; I'm rather scared by the idea of a Conservative government.



Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.

I dont think you will find that any of them are very different to each other and i have NO faith in the LibLabCon but my main worry is Nick Clegg taking this country into the Euro which is a major mistake and another financial trap that the UK could well do without.

Clegg has stated time and time again that he will only consider going into the Euro if the circumstances are absolutely perfect, and even then a referendum will be held in order to let the country decide. LibDems actually listen to people's opinions on a regular basis, and not just when the Daily Mail brigade spring into action like Labour (and the Conservatives too, well, if they weren't the best of chums).

Thats all well and good but you should know very well not to expect politicians to keep their promises/pledges.

What happened to the last referendum that the UK was promised ?

Nothing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 05 May, 2010, 10:10:20 pm
I just look at it this way. Am I better off now than 10 years ago.
Answer NO.
Time for a change.







VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 12:02:11 am
It's polling day, so no more politics, it's the LAW. Well on the radio it is, not sure about the telly  :-\
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 May, 2010, 12:32:35 am
I actually forgot about it all until today as its all just business as usual to me.

I am going to use a pen to mark the X so it cant be surreptitiously rubbed out and moved into another box.

Its the only way to be sure.

Either that or press very hard with the pencil and go over it over and over again so it cant be rubbed out.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 06 May, 2010, 01:20:29 am
Thats all well and good but you should know very well not to expect politicians to keep their promises/pledges.

What happened to the last referendum that the UK was promised ?

Nothing.

A.) The reason we had no referendum was mostly likely because of Tory/Labour cockblocking.

and

B.) The process of changing to the Euro would be massive scrutiny, and you can bet your arse the media circuit will lean on whoever is in power to give us a referendum.

I don't trust politicians much either, but acting like they're all the spawn of Satan and cannot be a force of good in the world through any capacity is just silly.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 06 May, 2010, 01:53:53 am
This was just brought to my attention:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poverty-and-injustice-in-david-cameronrsquos-model-borough-1962318.html

Grim reading.

Barring a miracle, tomorrow is not going to be fun.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 May, 2010, 01:58:58 am
Thats all well and good but you should know very well not to expect politicians to keep their promises/pledges.

What happened to the last referendum that the UK was promised ?

Nothing.

A.) The reason we had no referendum was mostly likely because of Tory/Labour cockblocking.

and

B.) The process of changing to the Euro would be massive scrutiny, and you can bet your arse the media circuit will lean on whoever is in power to give us a referendum.

I don't trust politicians much either, but acting like they're all the spawn of Satan and cannot be a force of good in the world through any capacity is just silly.

I dont understand point A.What does "cockblocking" mean ?

I also already know and understand why we didnt get a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

B:The media can lean on whoever is in power to give us a referendum as much as they like but that doesnt have anything to do with the electorate being given one.All they can do is promote or propagandise the issue for or against it.

C:I am not acting like anything.All i do is point out facts so if politicians want to start acting like they are a force for good then i will shut up and be out of a job and then perhaps i cant start paying attention to other things instead.


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 02:19:15 am
I will vote for anyone who can make my life feel like this:

(http://www.firefox10.com/images/firefox-on-breast.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 06 May, 2010, 09:38:45 am
I will vote for anyone who can make my life feel like this:

(http://www.firefox10.com/images/firefox-on-breast.jpg)

AWWWWWWWW!!! Pinks nosed puppies and kittens! :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: stacey on 06 May, 2010, 10:23:59 am
This was just brought to my attention:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poverty-and-injustice-in-david-cameronrsquos-model-borough-1962318.html

Grim reading.

Barring a miracle, tomorrow is not going to be fun.

It's a pity they couldn't get some of these people asking questions in the debate and watch the plastic frowny man squirm. Very uncomfortable reading.

I am scared for us all. I am a single mother of two relying on my tax credits to be able to live and work. Trying to make the best decision for my little family is a difficult and scary thing, it won't be Tory, they hate me, as if I planned for my marriage to fail. I feel really angry and let down and still undecided about who is going to do the best for me, as selfishly thats what I have to think about. Me and my girls.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 11:06:07 am
Anyone been to the polling station yet?

Later, I shall post a pic of my dog and I on our journey towards spoiling my vote.  :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: LARF on 06 May, 2010, 11:12:30 am
Oooh! are you going to cover it in Chum and feed it to the dog?

:-)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: davethomson on 06 May, 2010, 11:16:47 am
Anyone been to the polling station yet?

Just got back from the polling station, it was very quiet. Voted for the SNP (which I'm sure many people consider to be ballot spoiling), got wet in the rain and bought some cigarettes for when the results come out.

Typical election day, eh?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 11:22:42 am
"The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 06 May, 2010, 11:31:46 am
I'm rather scared by the idea of a Conservative government...While I don't doubt that they have the best interests of the country at heart
I doubt it very much - and I share your fear

I'm finding the idea of someone I otherwise think well of voting for those evil blue bastards quite hard to deal with. Is this normal?
Normal? It's commendable!

This was just brought to my attention:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poverty-and-injustice-in-david-cameronrsquos-model-borough-1962318.html
And that's why, the evil scumsuckers.

I expect to be rather depressed tomorrow  :(



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 11:34:55 am
Might as well be depressed now and get it over with.

Tomorrow we can begin planning the revolution. (Open-ended rolling strikes, boycotting of major corporations (except the banks - boycott the banks and they'll shut off the money supply and blame the boycotts), rolling roadblocks and flash-mobs until the politicians either side with us or with the corporations/banks. The ones who side with us get an unconditional pardon, the ones who side with the banks/corporations get fired and imprisoned.)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 12:13:24 pm
Anyone been to the polling station yet?

Just got back from the polling station, it was very quiet. Voted for the SNP (which I'm sure many people consider to be ballot spoiling), got wet in the rain and bought some cigarettes for when the results come out.

Typical election day, eh?

Well, it wasn't a wasted journey. You got yourself some smokes, after all! :)

Oooh! are you going to cover it in Chum and feed it to the dog?

:-)

There's an idea...

OR I could feign madness by dragging the polling card along the ground, on a lead, and offering my dog as proof of eligibility to vote!

:D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 06 May, 2010, 12:19:01 pm
I've done my bit. Now looking forward to shouting at the telly later.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 12:26:21 pm
Now looking forward to shouting at the telly later.

And shaking your fist. Don't forget the fist-shaking, Damn it!

*shakes fist at computer*

 >:(
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: davethomson on 06 May, 2010, 12:33:10 pm
Well, it wasn't a wasted journey. You got yourself some smokes, after all! :)

Very true, I think all the polling stations in Scotland are located next to places to which sell booze and smokes. We need the encouragement, us Scots.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 06 May, 2010, 02:12:49 pm
Well, it wasn't a wasted journey. You got yourself some smokes, after all! :)

Very true, I think all the polling stations in Scotland are located next to places to which sell booze and smokes. We need the encouragement, us Scots.

I voted, I bought tobacco but I also bought tomato and onion bajis. See, not all scots are the same. :D
Tomato and onion baji slathered in sweet chilli sauce on a wholemeal seeded ciabatta goes very well with banana milk.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 06 May, 2010, 02:17:38 pm
I voted and on the way back I got some Pickled Onion Space Raiders.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 02:19:11 pm
I voted and on the way back somebody stole my country.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 06 May, 2010, 02:24:44 pm
The theft won't happen until tonight. Expect some high drama tonight and tomorrow, though - Florida-style dirty tricks a-go-go.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: James Stacey on 06 May, 2010, 02:28:20 pm
More importantly ... you can still get Space Raiders ??  :o
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 06 May, 2010, 02:31:31 pm
Tomorrow we can begin planning the revolution.

http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/05/05/elderly-campaigner-causes-4-mile-tailbacks-with-traffic-light-pr/ (http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/05/05/elderly-campaigner-causes-4-mile-tailbacks-with-traffic-light-pr/)

Come the revolution, I want this guy to be involved....

I voted and on the way back I got some Pickled Onion Space Raiders.

I am extremely concerned about the health and wellbeing of many contributors to this forum. I call for a Nanny State to protect you all from yourselves. Maybe this kind of Nanny....

(http://www.firefox10.com/images/firefox-on-breast.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 02:47:19 pm
Excellent idea to use pedestrian crossings to stop traffic. Imagine thousands of people all across the country doing that on the same day. I'll add that to the rolling strikes and boycotts on the day we rebel... Brilliant!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: nev on 06 May, 2010, 03:17:01 pm
More importantly ... you can still get Space Raiders ??  :o
Recessions hit hard though, think it's up to 15p a pack now.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 06 May, 2010, 03:21:52 pm

Excellent idea to use pedestrian crossings to stop traffic.

Hoist 'em on their own petards, that's what I say... (Note to self: find out what the fk a petard is)...

Am enjoying the Minute by Minute coverage on the Guardian website, mainly because nothing's happening. Love the following image though:

http://is.gd/bWKXh (http://is.gd/bWKXh)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 03:34:07 pm
A petard, iIrc, is a kind of old-fashioned hand grenade. It had a rather twitchy fuse and used to go off unexpectedly before even being thrown, flinging the unfortunate grenade-tosser into the air. Hence the phrase, hoist by his own petard. I guess if that happened these days we'd call it being petarded.


*edit* not a hand grenade, but a bomb used to blow holes in the walls/doors of besieged cities or buildings.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 06 May, 2010, 03:34:47 pm
I dont understand point A.What does "cockblocking" mean ?

I also already know and understand why we didnt get a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

B:The media can lean on whoever is in power to give us a referendum as much as they like but that doesnt have anything to do with the electorate being given one.All they can do is promote or propagandise the issue for or against it.

C:I am not acting like anything.All i do is point out facts so if politicians want to start acting like they are a force for good then i will shut up and be out of a job and then perhaps i cant start paying attention to other things instead.




Basically, Lab/Con/Lib/Whoever 'cockblocks' (not a real political term mind you, would be nice if it was) something in parliament by teaming up to stop a proposed item going through. Lab didn't offer a referendum on Lisbon, Cons attacked them (but then didn't offer a referendum themselves, and the LibDems said an issue like this didn't call for a referendum and called for a poll to see if we should stay in or leave the EU instead, so in this case no parties outright called for a referendum, but at least the LibDems offered something, which is the point I'm trying to argue.

B: Believe me; enough leaning will get the people what they want. Sadly, this has been abused by the Daily Mail brigade who simply exist to complain about things.

C: Sorry mate, but you come off as a bit 'tinfoil hat' sometimes, but not without reason mind you. Politics is a bloody murky business.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 03:38:28 pm
So, a cockblocking is like a gangbang where the electorate gets shafted by all the parties?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 06 May, 2010, 03:42:34 pm
Quote
Basically, Lab/Con/Lib/Whoever 'cockblocks' (not a real political term mind you, would be nice if it was) something in parliament by teaming up to stop a proposed item going through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 May, 2010, 04:04:22 pm
Get a load of this as you will like it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorow/4581218328/

I feel like i want to laugh and get angry at once.

[/quote]

Basically, Lab/Con/Lib/Whoever 'cockblocks' (not a real political term mind you, would be nice if it was) something in parliament by teaming up to stop a proposed item going through. Lab didn't offer a referendum on Lisbon, Cons attacked them (but then didn't offer a referendum themselves, and the LibDems said an issue like this didn't call for a referendum and called for a poll to see if we should stay in or leave the EU instead, so in this case no parties outright called for a referendum, but at least the LibDems offered something, which is the point I'm trying to argue.

B: Believe me; enough leaning will get the people what they want. Sadly, this has been abused by the Daily Mail brigade who simply exist to complain about things.

C: Sorry mate, but you come off as a bit 'tinfoil hat' sometimes, but not without reason mind you. Politics is a bloody murky business.
[/quote]

A:No wonder i didnt recognise the term Cockblocking as it isnt a political term.

Labour broke a specific election promise to offer a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.Conservatives/David Cameron made a lot of noise about offering a referendum on it while in opposition but as the election got closer and closer they flip flopped on it so no referendum from them now.You can read their election manifesto on europe yourself.They werent at any time able to offer a referendum while they were in opposition.

There is a big difference between an opinion poll and a referendum regarding the LibDems and the LibDems did previously support the idea of a LT referendum but again they flip flopped as well at the beginning of 2009.

B:I will believe it when it happens and NOT until because i have as little faith in the corporate media as i have with the LibLabCon.The corporate media havent exactly made much noise or leaned on politicians very much over the Lisbon Treaty so far and dont reflect the views of the public .

C:Its not like i sit here and make stuff up and its a question of how educated or wordly you are as to how much of a tin foil hatter i am .
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 04:10:29 pm
I shall be voting in about an hour, cameraphone at the ready, with a few badges to be placed somewhere on the ballot paper (to prove it's me).
Luckily for you lot, you'll all be asleep when the counting takes place but I'll be tortured with it while I'm at work, unless I listen to the dross, that is the music stations  >:(
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Buttonman on 06 May, 2010, 04:22:26 pm
I voted as I always do with my pencil hovering over each of the unworthy candidates. I eventually went for the SNP woman who was the only one who actually lived in the constituancy. The socialist candiate refused to divulge his address on the ballot - that'll be helpful when I try to enlist his help in my planning dispute!

People who say you should vote becuase people died in wars to allow us to do so annoy me. They forget that people died in wars so that we can choose whether we want to bloody well vote or not. And don't say 'voting is compulsory in Australia' I know and to me that devalues the whole process.

Betfair has the Tories favourites by 100 seats.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Doctor Alt 8 on 06 May, 2010, 04:25:46 pm
Well the fine for not voting is only $20 austraian dollors... and remember if voting is compulory... you could at least spoil your ballot paper. I don't think that is a criminal offence.

I have voted 3 hours ago.

I would really like to see a couple of independant/ monster raving Loony candiates elected.
I think it would send a strong message as to how dissatisfied many see the system.

That's all I am going to say.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Goaty on 06 May, 2010, 04:27:23 pm
Is it annoyed that The Sun and Daily Mail, Sky News want Tory to win? as many people I knew dont want to vote them, cos of 1979-96....

I would reallllllllly like to see what's their reactions if it fail!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 04:28:54 pm
I'm with you on that Buttonman. The last thing I think about when in the middle of a firefight is 'I hope those (add expletive) back home vote because I'm doing this for them.'  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 04:30:29 pm
Get a load of this as you will like it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctorow/4581218328/

I feel like i want to laugh and get angry at once.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/the_legendary_shark/2000ADonline%20Images/webcock.jpg)

I wonder how long it'll take the Photobucket Sex Wombles to tidy this away?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 04:45:01 pm
cos of 1979-96.... 

Was this when we had the dead not being burried, strikes galore, rubbish piled up all over the place, etc....

Oops, that's right Labour were in then, the good old 'Winter of Discontent,' oh how people selectively forget somethings from the recent past. Don't just slag off other parties everyone, look a bit closer to home first  ;)


And no I ain't voting Tory, as the woman standing for them was Labour a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 May, 2010, 05:05:49 pm
Is it annoyed that The Sun and Daily Mail, Sky News want Tory to win? as many people I knew dont want to vote them, cos of 1979-96....

I would reallllllllly like to see what's their reactions if it fail!

I dont want Labour to win because of 1997 to 06/06/2010.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2010, 05:11:50 pm
I don't want any of the parties to win because of 1707-2010.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 05:16:32 pm
I dont want Labour to win because of 1997 to 06/06/2010.

Be careful Peter, now that these polite and loving Labour lot know that you won't be voting for their party, they will despise you.
As far as they are concerned anything that has gone wrong with this country in it's entire history is the Conservative parties fault, even before it was invented, especially because of Maggie Thatcher  ;)

I say this not to imply that you are voting Tory but because that's what they will think!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 05:24:52 pm
And no I ain't voting Tory, as the woman standing for them was Labour a couple of years ago

That says it all, for me...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 05:27:34 pm
And no I ain't voting Tory, as the woman standing for them was Labour a couple of years ago

That says it all, for me...

I agree, you can't trust Labour  :lol: :lol: :lol:


I shall post my ballot later, still haven't voted as I had to wait for Carolyn to get home so we can have a night out at the polling station  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 06 May, 2010, 05:30:53 pm
I dont want Labour to win because of 1997 to 06/06/2010.

Be careful Peter, now that these polite and loving Labour lot know that you won't be voting for their party, they will despise you.
As far as they are concerned anything that has gone wrong with this country in it's entire history is the Conservative parties fault, even before it was invented, especially because of Maggie Thatcher  ;)

I say this not to imply that you are voting Tory but because that's what they will think!

I thought he was voting for UKIP. Mind you, I've not been playing close attention lately.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 05:33:48 pm
He's very environment friendly is Peter, I'll bet he votes Green ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 05:41:22 pm
still haven't voted as I had to wait for Carolyn to get home so we can have a night out at the polling station  ::)[/color]

Wouldn't it be cool to have a first date at the polling station?

'She says tomato, I say NATO... let's call the whole thing off!'

 :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 06 May, 2010, 06:18:01 pm
Done and voted, lovely.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 07:38:11 pm
Here's a couple of shots of me starting off on my journey to spoil my gaddam vote. Notice; even the dog looks disinterested.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/spikyprofile74/011-2.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/spikyprofile74/012.jpg)

Wasn't quite sure how to make my spoil, until I saw a work colleague's t-shirt.

Hence, inspired by this:

http://store.engrish.com/poevrut.html

... I simply placed a bracket around all the candidates and wrote, 'Poisonous and Evil Rubbish'

 :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 07:52:17 pm
As promised, after all I am a man of my word (unlike those people we are voting for), here is my ballot paper. Carolyn did ask why I took so long in the cubicle and she just rolled her eyes when I told her.

As I said before, I voted Labour in 97, due to the sleeze and after the first term of Labour rule went back to the Conservatives. Now that the country is worse off due to many factors (there is no point going over it all again) I decided to vote this shower of shite into some sort of power to teach those gits in parliment a lesson that they will never forget (that's if it works).
Also the candidate for Maidstone was a Labour bod not long ago, plus she doesn't even live in the town. But above all the Tories changed our free resident parking  to a £25 tax (luckily I can still park up the street for free, only half the street is permit parking, don't ask).
I told this to the Tory bod outside and he looked quite shocked that I binned his vote due to permit parking :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding:-

(http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/judgedredd67/951b4a75-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dunk! on 06 May, 2010, 07:56:49 pm
The National Front are still going?

I thought they'd morphed into the BNP.

Don't tell me: there's folks out there who regard the BNP policies as too liberal?

Chesus.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 08:00:04 pm
Oh! yes, when their sheet of paper dropped through the letterbox I nearly pissed myself laughing at what they had written. Suffice to say it went in the recycling bin straight after and I hadn't even left the doorstep :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 06 May, 2010, 08:16:53 pm
Our BNP candidate is called Trebilcock.

Seems apt - Three times as much of a dick as the other candidates.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 06 May, 2010, 08:26:10 pm
Our BNP candidate is called Trebilcock.

Seems apt - Three times as much of a dick as the other candidates.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's also interesting to see the differences in the actual voting form, CF. Here our voting form has the candidate's address on it too. Most of the candidates live in the constituancy, however some don't. One said somewhere "in Midlothian". Hardly a local candidate. I can't remember which party it was now, either labour or tory I think.
Though yor's did have some nice swirly patterns on it. :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 06 May, 2010, 08:28:31 pm
Our BNP candidate is called Trebilcock.

Seems apt - Three times as much of a dick as the other candidates.

Just for interest:

http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=trebilcock


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 06 May, 2010, 08:31:07 pm
Our BNP candidate is called Trebilcock.

Seems apt - Three times as much of a dick as the other candidates.

hahah! Dick cubed!  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 08:31:24 pm
I did a trial post to see if it looked okay and then realised all the addresses where visible, so I quickly did that arty swirl thing, don't want to get in the shit  ;)

Saying that the original is on my photobucket site  :-[
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 06 May, 2010, 08:37:42 pm
My vote went in last week. Too easy.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BRtASsu3vYA/Rsm4pH8_sUI/AAAAAAAAAD4/ZwoxEazZnBs/s320/Blog+Post+Boxes.jpg)






VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Buttonman on 06 May, 2010, 08:39:09 pm
Carroll, Grant, Jeffrey... is your poll based on first names only? As for the National Front man "I 'ate you Butler"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 06 May, 2010, 08:40:08 pm
I did a trial post to see if it looked okay and then realised all the addresses where visible, so I quickly did that arty swirl thing, don't want to get in the shit  ;)

Well it looked very nice, CF. :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: WoD on 06 May, 2010, 08:49:36 pm
On our form it showed where the candidates lived (or didn't)...my local Labour candidate was from Surrey - hope that loses them a vote or two.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Kerrin on 06 May, 2010, 09:00:05 pm
Voted, not that it will do much in my constituency, the only one in England that has never been anything other than Tory. Francis Maude is probably pouring champagne into his silly arse-like face as I write this. Bollocks to him, voted Lib-dem anyway.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dunk! on 06 May, 2010, 09:02:47 pm
Is it just me or does the NF symbol look like a Union flag held aloft on fire?

Confusing message there.

Extra morons.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 May, 2010, 09:58:54 pm
I dont want Labour to win because of 1997 to 06/06/2010.

Be careful Peter, now that these polite and loving Labour lot know that you won't be voting for their party, they will despise you.
As far as they are concerned anything that has gone wrong with this country in it's entire history is the Conservative parties fault, even before it was invented, especially because of Maggie Thatcher  ;)

I say this not to imply that you are voting Tory but because that's what they will think!


I havent got any time for stupid partisan rubbish.

I dont care and they can feel free to despise me as much as they like but in the next 5 years everyone who voted will have time to reflect on it all.

The most favorable outcome here is a hung parliament which will force them all to work together which will make it a lot harder in theory for any of them to do what they like.

Anyway heres to the next 5 years.

Have fun everyone  !!


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 06 May, 2010, 10:00:54 pm
Is it just me or does the NF symbol look like a Union flag held aloft on fire?

The Conservative one is surprisingly weak, little more than a smudged scribble really. I can only assume the tree is an attempt to lure in a few confused Green voters.

The Christian Party's effort is a bit simplistic, but you can see where they're coming from.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Tiplodocus on 06 May, 2010, 10:18:59 pm
Our Lib Dem candidate went by the unlikely name of Sebastian MartineauTombs.  And he lived in that Edinburgh, some 70 miles away from our actual constituency.  And we didn't even get a leaflet through the door from him. (Possibly a good thing as our SNP candidate looked, well, pissed).  So he'll be lucky if he gets a hundred votes I reckon.

I guess they just weren't trying; the Lib Dems really are the 4th Party up here in Jockland.

No other candidates than Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and SNP which was very disappointing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 11:09:16 pm
I see the Dark Lord of the Sith is now saying that we need voting reform (is this because it doesn't look good for his party) and also that his boss, Emperor Brown can still run the country with another party, Jesus Christ  :o

Just go gracefully and get in jail you fucking criminal!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 May, 2010, 11:24:17 pm
Shock News.
Many voters stopped from voting because of queues and 22:00 came too early  ::)

Jesus Christ Man hater is now saying Brown should rule, because the voting system should be changed and that's why people voted against Labour. You could NOT make this up.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Grant Goggans on 06 May, 2010, 11:28:28 pm
The "full UK scoreboard" on the BBC site fascinates me.  It lists 20 parties.  Outside of the lead six (Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, British National Party, UK Independence Party, Democratic Unionist Party and Scottish National Party, all of which I've heard of), are any of the others expected to win any seats?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 06 May, 2010, 11:32:16 pm
Ordinarily, no, but this time maybe.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 06 May, 2010, 11:32:31 pm
Tragedy? Comedy? Divine Justice? Conspiracy? You be the judge! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8666202.stm)





(PS, I know it's wrong, but I lean towards option B. But I've got a dark sense of humour!)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 06 May, 2010, 11:34:47 pm
are any of the others expected to win any seats?
The Greens have a chance of taking one seat in Brighton, and veteran TV presenter Esther Rantzen (google her) may win one as an independent, but I think that's about it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 06 May, 2010, 11:37:21 pm
Quote from: Dandontdare
Quote from: Grant Goggans
are any of the others expected to win any seats?
The Greens have a chance of taking one seat in Brighton, and veteran TV presenter Esther Rantzen (google her) may win one as an independent, but I think that's about it.

UKIP's Nigel Farage might have beaten that godawful Bercow, but since his plane crash I can't see that happening...

M@



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 06 May, 2010, 11:40:43 pm
Quote
The aircraft, a PZL-104 Wilga 35A, is a Polish fixed-wing aircraft which is reportedly owned by Sky Banners, in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey.

We're onto you, sonny jim.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Grant Goggans on 06 May, 2010, 11:41:52 pm
I see 2462 votes for "Others" right now.  Are these votes that haven't been sorted into all those other small party columns, or write-ins, or the real oddballs like the Monster Raving Loonies that the BBC doesn't want to acknowledge?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 06 May, 2010, 11:48:21 pm
Quote from: Grant Goggans
I see 2462 votes for "Others" right now.  Are these votes that haven't been sorted into all those other small party columns, or write-ins, or the real oddballs like the Monster Raving Loonies that the BBC doesn't want to acknowledge?

Could just be Independents ie. people standing on their own, rather than for any party.

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 06 May, 2010, 11:49:46 pm
I see 2462 votes for "Others" right now.  Are these votes that haven't been sorted into all those other small party columns, or write-ins, or the real oddballs like the Monster Raving Loonies that the BBC doesn't want to acknowledge?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom)
scroll down to the 'Minor English Parties' for a good snapshot of the wondrous variety of bonkers British democracy in action
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: maryanddavid on 06 May, 2010, 11:54:18 pm
Im watching this at the min on UTV, I love elections, all the spin, celebrations and recriminations.
 I have only a passing knowledge of British politic, I would be pretty familiar with the goings on up north though, Its all facinating. Beware the polls, and bring in PR, it makes it even more entertaining!

David
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 07 May, 2010, 12:06:13 am
Our Lib Dem candidate went by the unlikely name of Sebastian MartineauTombs.  And he lived in that Edinburgh, some 70 miles away from our actual constituency.

That's nothin'. Our's lives in Birmingham (over 300 miles away).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 May, 2010, 12:23:46 am
Ours is a lizard from Zeta Reticuli.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 May, 2010, 12:52:46 am
Northern Ireland First Minister is gone  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 12:58:33 am
I'm Staying up for this. The right ear of Andrew Neil is scaring me on BBC1. I think he could be a Vulcan. 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 01:15:06 am
I'm Staying up for this. The right ear of Andrew Neil is scaring me on BBC1. I think he could be a Vulcan. 

Me too, Nap. It's gonna be a long night, but alcohol will help. :D
We get scottish election programme here, but I just discovered I can see what you see on BBC news channel. Haven't seen the ear yet!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: MIKE COLLINS on 07 May, 2010, 01:18:20 am
Quote
Me too, Nap. It's gonna be a long night, but alcohol will help. Cheesy
We get scottish election programme here, but I just discovered I can see what you see on BBC news channel. Haven't seen the ear yet!

Same in Wales-- so I'm flicking between the two... charming low tech Cardiff studio vs Blofeld's Lair on BBC News!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 01:31:48 am
It's going to be a long night so time to open another bottle. We are trying to take it seriously but the Mrs and I are now voting on who has the best ears for the job. If it was all down to ears I think Brown could win it. 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 07 May, 2010, 01:33:30 am
Why are people in Kirkcaldy holding up their fists?

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 01:38:13 am
Why are people in Kirkcaldy holding up their fists?

M@

Maybe he wanted to ask a question. Like "what happened to my deposit?" :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 01:39:20 am
Why are people in Kirkcaldy holding up their fists?

M@
What Party was fist man representing? I know he got 57 votes.
The Mrs said he must be a comic book fan which did make me laugh.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 07 May, 2010, 01:40:56 am
Heh - good work both of you :-) I think he was from the "Landless Peasant" party(!)

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 07 May, 2010, 01:44:22 am
His name is Sunglasses Fist or at least it should be.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 01:45:11 am
Heh - good work both of you :-) I think he was from the "Landless Peasant" party(!)

M@

 :lol:

The "Land is Power" party is the party he represented.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 01:46:57 am
Fist Man was some kind of "Land of the People" party - no idea what he meant. Thought it was black power with vitiligo..... (but that's obviously wholly inappropriate)....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 01:53:47 am
I think it's going to be quite an historic night in British Politics. Imagine all the deals that are being made all the strategies and alliances coming into play as we watch. Fascinating stuff. As a side note I'm really missing the Monster Raving Loony Party.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 02:08:46 am
Tis intriguing.... It's still early so everything looks good (in England) if you're left of centre... It also looks quite interesting in Scotland - early swing to Labour, no doubt an SNP fightback and possibility that the Tories could get chucked out (again).

If only time could stop now...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 07 May, 2010, 02:24:01 am
Lembit! Noooooooo!!!!  :o
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 07 May, 2010, 02:26:33 am
Lembit goes and the BBC turn straight to a pundit called Sian Lloyd(!)

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 07 May, 2010, 02:29:07 am
Impending Tory leadership. Currently bricking it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 May, 2010, 02:30:37 am
Dear me, I go to get some paperwork at Swan Valley and the Cheeky Boy has gone  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 May, 2010, 02:36:52 am
Impending Tory leadership. Currently bricking it.

You may not need to be so worried, the Dark Lord of the Sith will tell his Emperor to do a deal with the devil to hang on to power. I can see them now in the Death Star, ringing the hotline to HELL  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 02:40:22 am
Lembit! Noooooooo!!!!  :o

Oh my gosh. Unc Fester and I are a bit taken aback by the loss of Celeb-MP-Number-One.... It's cos Simon Cowell told everyone to vote Gory Tory.

However, within 6 months, Lembit will have his own TV show (hopefully displacing Andrew Neil), co-hosting a show with Peter Robinson - Different Votes, perhaps....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 07 May, 2010, 02:42:05 am
Clearly, folk up here are so scared the Tories might get back in that they've decided the safest bet is to vote Labour.

Meh.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 02:44:56 am
But what the buggery is going on in Wales??? Have a whole bunch of rich folk bought second homes or something?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 02:51:48 am
But what the buggery is going on in Wales??? Have a whole bunch of rich folk bought second homes or something?

Well there's been lots of tv shows in the last few years about moving to the countryside around. Y'know downsizing and buying houses in quaint little villages for the price of rabbit hutches in the home counties.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 02:57:28 am
My other (non-rhetorical) question is "where are the Monster Raving Loony Party?".... I was about to say "where are the people in fancy dress?" but they're now showing Cameron's result and there are two....

If only one of them would win....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 07 May, 2010, 02:57:36 am
Blimey - Jesus is in Witney(!)

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 02:58:53 am
Blimey - Jesus is in Witney(!)

M@

Zombie Jesus by the looks of it!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 02:59:26 am
and he got 37 votes... original Jesus only had 12 friends....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 07 May, 2010, 03:01:01 am
Almost voted MRL before I saw they were the "Monster Raving Loony William Hill Party".
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:01:51 am
sorry, but this is funny... CamRon has just thanked all his opponents for campaigning in a "fair and reasonable way"... Given that he was up against Jesus, Boss Hogg and the BNP, that's quite a statement... (honestly, look at the pictures)...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 03:05:16 am
sorry, but this is funny... CamRon has just thanked all his opponents for campaigning in a "fair and reasonable way"... Given that he was up against Jesus, Boss Hogg and the BNP, that's quite a statement... (honestly, look at the pictures)...

 :D That brought tears to my eyes.
It's now neck and neck.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 03:05:23 am
sorry, but this is funny... CamRon has just thanked all his opponents for campaigning in a "fair and reasonable way"... Given that he was up against Jesus, Boss Hogg and the BNP, that's quite a statement... (honestly, look at the pictures)...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 07 May, 2010, 03:17:04 am
Starting to freak out a bit. When the blue number overtakes the red number I'm going to fully freak out.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:21:07 am
Starting to freak out a bit. When the blue number overtakes the red number I'm going to fully freak out.

I am with you... Am currently shouting "Nooooo-oooo" at the TV whenever it gets close. The red number is (so far) staying ahead but I don't expect it to last.

Oh and by the way, Pickled Onion Space Whatevers - tchaa. You shoulda been campaignin', big fella....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 07 May, 2010, 03:24:41 am
Oh dear... the blue team is winning now!

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:26:38 am
As Samuel Johnson once said: "Bollocks"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 03:27:53 am
Are the Lib Dems about to become the new King Makers?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 07 May, 2010, 03:30:37 am
I did a lot of virtual campaigning on the Twitter. Does that count?

Anyway, I'm now fully freaking out. Holding onto that Kingmaker thing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:34:08 am
Kingmakers: Maybe, but perhaps not as much as everyone suspected. In my constituency, there had been massively open campaigning until the last 24 hours. At that point it shifted to tactical voting - the Labs and the Cons both saying that a Lib Dem vote was a waste. Think that tactic could have worked.....

(Oh good God, the BBC are now interviewing those two well known political pundits: Al Murray Pub Landlord and Bill Wyman, who frankly should be in jail for statutory rape. Golden age of broadcasting eh?)

I did a lot of virtual campaigning on the Twitter. Does that count?
Not for anybody under an age that begins with 3. But well done on embracing the new-fangled. Can you explain it to me??
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 07 May, 2010, 03:38:44 am
Can you explain it to me??

Not really. It's basically a giant comic convention that never ends.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:40:27 am
Lots of MacNeil style drinking then? But without a limit on how many letters you can have in a panel...

WITH a limit... WITH a  limit.. Gosh pay attention girl....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 03:43:06 am
At the end of the day all we are doing is voting for one bunch of fuck wits replace another bunch of fuck wits.
 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:44:23 am
At the end of the day all we are doing is voting for one bunch of fuck wits replace another bunch of fuck wits.
 

Yes, but do you want your fuckwits educated at a first-tier public school or a second-tier public school?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 03:47:06 am
Lots of MacNeil style drinking then?

I'm sure I don't know what you mean! hic!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 May, 2010, 03:49:55 am
I think number 10 Downing Street is about to become a time share apartment :).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 03:53:42 am
Lots of MacNeil style drinking then?

I'm sure I don't know what you mean! hic!

I believe we have a standing appointment for pints of Babycham at Birmingham.....

Turns out that the birds start singing in South London at ten to four in the morning. Just before some freakin' Tory comes out to shoot 'em. It's the brave new world of tomorrow, folks, and I feel somewhat weary and cynical about it. No doubt after some sleep I'll be reinvigorated and leading the march on Downing Street... But right now I just feel a little sad....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 03:59:50 am
Lots of MacNeil style drinking then?

I'm sure I don't know what you mean! hic!

I believe we have a standing appointment for pints of Babycham at Birmingham.....

Turns out that the birds start singing in South London at ten to four in the morning. Just before some freakin' Tory comes out to shoot 'em. It's the brave new world of tomorrow, folks, and I feel somewhat weary and cynical about it. No doubt after some sleep I'll be reinvigorated and leading the march on Downing Street... But right now I just feel a little sad....
I almost forgot about the Babycham! :D

Never mind, just get lagered up on Babycham tomorrow and.. and... well the world doesn't seem so bad after that. :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 07 May, 2010, 04:00:01 am
Impending Tory leadership. Currently bricking it.

You may not need to be so worried, the Dark Lord of the Sith will tell his Emperor to do a deal with the devil to hang on to power. I can see them now in the Death Star, ringing the hotline to HELL  :lol:

Cameron is Cthulhu/Satan/Thatcher's brain in a waxwork body.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Lady Festina on 07 May, 2010, 04:04:08 am
Never mind, just get lagered up on Babycham tomorrow and.. and... well the world doesn't seem so bad after that. :D

Oddly enough, tomorrow / today I'm heading off for my Hen Weekend in Edinburgh, so I'd imagine that pints of Babycham may be in order....

There was a wonderful description earlier that Cameron was a "fish in a condom". Missed the context for it but it was a cool image....
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 07 May, 2010, 04:16:42 am
Never mind, just get lagered up on Babycham tomorrow and.. and... well the world doesn't seem so bad after that. :D

Oddly enough, tomorrow / today I'm heading off for my Hen Weekend in Edinburgh, so I'd imagine that pints of Babycham may be in order....

There was a wonderful description earlier that Cameron was a "fish in a condom". Missed the context for it but it was a cool image....


Well, I hope you have a good time tomorrow/today then and all the best when the big day arrives.
"Fish in a condom"! :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 May, 2010, 04:22:21 am
Balls to Ed Balls

I would also like to thank Gordon Brown for sabotaging the Labour party.

 :lol: :lol:

I am hoping that it will be a hung parliament rather than a majority because its never happened before in my lifetime but its still too early to say.......
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 May, 2010, 04:36:35 am
Bye Jackie Smith  :wave:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 07 May, 2010, 06:52:56 am
Peter Robinson, eh?  Seems no-one wants a First Minister with horns.

A hung parliament, you say.  What fun you Brits will have, our Irish coalition governments have been just super.   Nothing like the strong will and clear vision of a leader who has to base all his decisions on fulfilling the every whim of a small group of former opponents, themselves so shocked to have ministerial salaries that they'll go along with any kind of crap to retain them.   Fun times for all!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 07 May, 2010, 06:53:35 am
I am hoping that it will be a hung parliament rather than a majority because its never happened before in my lifetime but its still too early to say.......

Looks to be what's happening.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 May, 2010, 06:56:54 am
And so, after an exciting night laughing at the radio and enjoying the banter on the thread and twitter I now retire to my pit and await the hilarity of the parties kissing each other's arses on the news when I awake  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 07 May, 2010, 07:59:39 am
A hung parliament, you say.  What fun you Brits will have, our Irish coalition governments have been just super.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that we've already seen a Tory government propped up by the DUP, in the shape of the last seven or eight months of the John Major government. It wasn't pretty, TBH.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 07 May, 2010, 11:19:17 am
I think that was the UUP Jim. Who now have no seats, probably because of tying themselves to the Nice But Dim Conservative Party in a NEW FORCE!

Voting? It's all a load of ballots I say.

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 May, 2010, 11:36:13 am
I stood in the middle of the living room and laughed out loud at the news about Robinson- that really cheered me up!
I love that his unbounded arrogance still does not allow him to admit any wrong- he seems to be blaming the BBC for his downfall... when I'm pretty sure he was the one doing suspicious land deals and it was his wife who was fucking a nineteen year old boy...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 07 May, 2010, 11:37:37 am
I think that was the UUP Jim.

You could very well be right. I couldn't be arsed to look it up.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Emperor on 07 May, 2010, 05:37:06 pm
Well I think I got the fabled Triple Win - I voted with my heart, I voted tactically and it worked. I switched my vote to the party I used to vote for in order to keep out a candidate I can't stand and it worked (although it was close). :)

Plus on the national stage all three major parties got a hefty boot in their arrogant knackers. :D It was also entertaining watching the TV pundits squirming around trying to come up with a consistent narrative for the evening when the main story was really the lack of one ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 07 May, 2010, 05:44:05 pm
I love that his unbounded arrogance still does not allow him to admit any wrong- he seems to be blaming the BBC for his downfall... when I'm pretty sure he was the one doing suspicious land deals and it was his wife who was fucking a nineteen year old boy...

:lol:

It did make me smile to see the Robinson dynasty crumble.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 May, 2010, 06:03:09 pm
I thought that Nick Clegg accepted defeat with good grace so i was impressed with that.

Also Mandelslime looked well pissed off this morning  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bye Bye slimeball Mandelson.[Being hopelessly optimistic here as i think we havent seen the back of that POS yet]

It does seem that a lot of Labour supporters are blind to their parties inadequacies and failures because they are not as bad as Tories so it seems there votes are based on loyalty rather than actualities of just how disasterous New Labour have been while in office not to mention the class issue as well but its worth pointing out that its Labour that have enriched the Banksters etc at the expense of the working person not to mention their onslaught/assault on civil liberties wheras i always thought that a Liberal govt would protect them.Not so with Labour.

Its fair to point out that the assault on civil liberties and the surveillance society started with Conservatives and no doubt that they would have continued it if they stayed in office after 1997.

I didnt vote Conservative but i dont think that Labour are inherently better.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 May, 2010, 07:36:10 pm
I love the way that a bloke who was not elected to rule, became the Prime Minister due to a deal done years ago is now trying to hang onto power, after his party lost the election. If this was happening in a third world country, Labour voters would be up in arms about it.
Still I'm sure Clegg will stand by his word and if he did go with Labour, at least Brown would be out.

On a personal note, I thoroughly enjoyed the tweets of doom by the Red Army last night, as their rally cry went unheard  :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 May, 2010, 09:47:45 pm
Does anyone know why Scottish Nationalism/Independence isnt a bad thing  and yet British Nationalism/independence is ?

Forget the BNP as i am not talking about them.

I am only talking here strictly about Nationalism in terms of wanting independence and sovereignty but i guess its because the SNP being left wing are inherently good yet when its UKIP Nationalism/independence is not good because the party leans to the right yet clearly Nationalism/Independence is a by-partisan issue.

Obviously there are different ways to go about this but i am arguing purely in the sense of sovereignty and self rule in principle and i dont think anyone can argue that self rule/sovereignty is a bad thing or you wouldnt be voting in a UK election.

Unless you are a fifth columnist or a quisling of course.

Just pointing out the flaw in this kind of thinking and the hypocrisy of it all.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 07 May, 2010, 09:51:17 pm
I love the way that a bloke who was not elected to rule, became the Prime Minister due to a deal done years ago is now trying to hang onto power, after his party lost the election.

Depressingly, I find myself not caring in the slightest - I can't see how having anyone else in charge for the last few years would really have made anything better. I come back to the lesser evil option, and right now I think that is Brown and Clegg working something out. Electoral reforms and Vince Cable as Chancellor might not be a bad start.


Quote
If this was happening in a third world country, Labour voters would be up in arms about it.

I'm more concerned about the people who queued to vote but couldn't. Numerically, their votes wouldn't have made a difference as I understand it, but I find that loss of democratic rights far more appaling than an electoral quirk that allows Brown to hang-on until something else is sorted out.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 07 May, 2010, 10:01:52 pm
Does anyone know why Scottish Nationalism/Independence isnt a bad thing  and yet British Nationalism/independence is ?

Personally, I've got no time for nationalism of any variety. I also believe that united we stand, divided we fall. Appreciating and caring for your home is noble, but making a political and divisive issue out of it just causes trouble.

However, the key difference between Scottish and Welsh nationalism is that the Scots and Welsh nationalists are concerned with the excessive political influence of England. Poltically active British nationalists tend to be concerned with the mere presence of non-white people in their midst.

That's a generalisation, but the tendency resluts in the negativity.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 May, 2010, 10:21:47 pm
Does anyone know why Scottish Nationalism/Independence isnt a bad thing  and yet British Nationalism/independence is ?

Personally, I've got no time for nationalism of any variety. I also believe that united we stand, divided we fall. Appreciating and caring for your home is noble, but making a political and divisive issue out of it just causes trouble.

However, the key difference between Scottish and Welsh nationalism is that the Scots and Welsh nationalists are concerned with the excessive political influence of England. Poltically active British nationalists tend to be concerned with the mere presence of non-white people in their midst.

That's a generalisation, but the tendency resluts in the negativity.

Regards

Robin

I dont actually like using the term "Nationalism" myself because of its associations which makes me slightly uncomfortable and i was only using it in the context of the SNP.I would rather just use the words sovereignty - self rule and independence.

Not arguing with you about British Nationalists but my concern is the excessive influence of the EU.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 07 May, 2010, 10:24:29 pm
i guess its because the SNP being left wing are inherently good pocrisy of it all.
Where on earth do you get the idea that the SNP are left wing?  I was a lefty student in Scotland, and I always had the impression that the SNP were the party of rich establishment  types, while labour were the left working class alternative. The Tories didn't even get a mention. Their USP was Scottish independence, but they weren't lefty in any other respect.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 07 May, 2010, 10:46:50 pm
I can't believe after all Gordon Brown and Labour has put us through over the last 14 Centuries years so many still voted. Sheesh..

Would have thought the lib dem's had done better though.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 07 May, 2010, 11:05:26 pm
Lib dems got greater percentage of the vote but less seats.

Tories demanding right to form govt when they agreed the rules just 2 years ago in a cross party committee- the sitting party gets first dibs on forming a coalition govt,

I can't see why the lib-dems would form a coalition with the tories as they're 100% against electoral reform. If they make that their condition, a coalition with labour (sans Brown) could see us achieve a more rational system.

If the lib dems have any balls they'll sacrifice every other policy in a one-shot blast at getting this ridiculous constituency system reformed.  They'll never have a better chance.

I'm just clutching at any scenario that will avoid another fucking tory administration! AAAARGH!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 07 May, 2010, 11:10:23 pm
Meanwhile I'm clutching at your mom to set up a very fucking administration.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 May, 2010, 11:11:11 pm
i guess its because the SNP being left wing are inherently good pocrisy of it all.
Where on earth do you get the idea that the SNP are left wing?  

Thats what they claim they are themselves going by their website.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 07 May, 2010, 11:17:51 pm
i guess its because the SNP being left wing are inherently good pocrisy of it all.
Where on earth do you get the idea that the SNP are left wing?  

Thats what they claim they are themselves going by their website.
Just had a look at their website and even tried a search under "left" - couldn't find anything. Could you provide a link?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 07 May, 2010, 11:20:40 pm
I can't believe after all Gordon Brown and Labour has put us through over the last 14 Centuries years so many still voted. Sheesh..

I think it boils down to the fact that a fair few people are actually reasonably happy with the way things are.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 07 May, 2010, 11:31:26 pm
Just had a look at their website and even tried a search under "left" - couldn't find anything. Could you provide a link?

The Wolf is correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 07 May, 2010, 11:37:48 pm
I think it boils down to the fact that a fair few people are actually reasonably happy with the way things are.

Also, when you get down to it, the big* beef most people have with New Labour is Iraq. Illegal war, yes. Lies, yes. Yes, to all of it. Blair is a snivelling, supine cunt whose cowering acquiescence to Dubya's wishes should guarantee him a very special place in Hell. Yes, I agree.

Now, someone look me in the eye and tell me that --for one second-- you believe that the Tories would have done anything different, that the Tories would have stood up to or defied the wishes of any American government.

Cheers

Jim

*Not to say there aren't lots and lots of little beefs. And not so little beefs.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 07 May, 2010, 11:42:04 pm
I think it boils down to the fact that a fair few people are actually reasonably happy with the way things are.

Also, when you get down to it, the big* beef most people have with New Labour is Iraq. Illegal war, yes. Lies, yes. Yes, to all of it. Blair is a snivelling, supine cunt whose cowering acquiescence to Dubya's wishes should guarantee him a very special place in Hell. Yes, I agree.

Now, someone look me in the eye and tell me that --for one second-- you believe that the Tories would have done anything different, that the Tories would have stood up to or defied the wishes of any American government.

Cheers

Jim

*Not to say there aren't lots and lots of little beefs. And not so little beefs.

Exactly right. The Tories may have taken an even more heavy handed approach to Iraq, and they're using the same excuse that Labour does about Saddam Hussein needing to be taken out of the picture eventually.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 07 May, 2010, 11:47:34 pm
Just had a look at their website and even tried a search under "left" - couldn't find anything. Could you provide a link?

The Wolf is correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party)

Fair dos. Centre left.

My experience was from Dundee in the late 80s -  as a Labour student, I spent time canvassing for labour, and areas that would be considered Tory in England (big houses and money in general) tended to be SNP, whilst the working class areas were pure Labour.

And Jim - YES, well said.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 May, 2010, 11:56:39 pm
I think it boils down to the fact that a fair few people are actually reasonably happy with the way things are.

Also, when you get down to it, the big* beef most people have with New Labour is Iraq. Illegal war, yes. Lies, yes. Yes, to all of it. Blair is a snivelling, supine cunt whose cowering acquiescence to Dubya's wishes should guarantee him a very special place in Hell. Yes, I agree.

Now, someone look me in the eye and tell me that --for one second-- you believe that the Tories would have done anything different, that the Tories would have stood up to or defied the wishes of any American government.

Cheers

Jim

*Not to say there aren't lots and lots of little beefs. And not so little beefs.

Its not just Iraq but Conservatives would have done EXACTLY the same thing when it came to Iraq/Afghanistan and bailing out banks and all the other major issues including the EU.

Which is why i always say they are all the same beyond superficial differences which is the main point i am trying to make most of the time.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 08 May, 2010, 09:15:10 am
I think it boils down to the fact that a fair few people are actually reasonably happy with the way things are.

Also, when you get down to it, the big* beef most people have with New Labour is Iraq. Illegal war, yes. Lies, yes. Yes, to all of it. Blair is a snivelling, supine cunt whose cowering acquiescence to Dubya's wishes should guarantee him a very special place in Hell. Yes, I agree.

I think this is the root of it all. May have already posted this, but I still think that without Iraq Blair would still be PM and/or fairly well respected.

The other big issue, the one to beat Brown himself with, is the national debt, but as far as I can tell if Brown hadn't borrowed and spent that money the country would have been completely fucked and the situation far, far worse than it is. I seem to recall we were in debt in 1997, too, but it was Brown who paid that off. Little is made of this in the media, but I think people are conscious of it to some degree.

The Conservatives haven't quite made it because, I think, much of the general public is concerned that they'll resolve the debt issue through pretty severe cuts in public services. I think we all realise that cuts are coming anyway, but it's a matter of degree and focus, and the Conservatives are probably less trusted to get that right.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 08 May, 2010, 03:37:32 pm
I think that the traditional Labour party stopped existing when John Smith died and then became something quite different which of course it did.

Personally i think what Brown and Blair have done to this country is totally unforgivable and for a country to be virtually bankrupt after 12 years of economic growth regardless of how that came about is quite astonishing and yet he stood there and said "no more return to boom and bust" while apparently not knowing that was exactly going to happen.His only defence for that is that the UK was part of a bigger problem and because now everything is interconnected globally once one economy starts to fail they all do.

Just where did all the money go to ??

Either it was all by design or Brown was totally clueless but either way this country is locked into a situation where it has to borrow more money and spend just to stay afloat but personally i think certain political parties just have a total misunderstanding of economics.

I think we are starting to see the breakdown of the EU economically which is starting with Greece but if the growth of the national debt is not curtailed very soon then in 12 to 24 months we will be in the same economic position as Greece as in being bailed out by the IMF and European central banks and reduced to the status of a third world country.The only advantage is that the UK is not part of the Eurozone.

Will a Conservative coalition take the UK out of Afghanistan where it costs 5 billion + a year that is spent defending poppyfields instead of cutting that much from the NHS and other public services ?

I dont think so.


"Peoples’ willingness to believe that their leaders know what they are doing and support them while they create havoc around the world, both financially, by misinformation and by military force indicates a serious lack of their own individual ability to think for themselves."
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 08 May, 2010, 05:56:26 pm
Personally i think what Brown and Blair have done to this country is totally unforgivable and for a country to be virtually bankrupt after 12 years of economic growth regardless of how that came about

So what should Brown have done? What have other countries like ours with economies that are heavily reliant on the financial services industry done that have proved more effective? What should have been done about banks that were collapsing?

Quote
but personally i think certain political parties just have a total misunderstanding of economics.

You mean ones you don't agree with? Seems to me that even experienced economists can't agree, so how you can expect politicians to understand or to presume that you understand is beyond me.

Whether it's politicans or the public, I see a lot of criticism of Brown, but little in the way of practical alternatives that are supported by convincing evidence in their favour.

I really don't like politicians in general, so I've no particular liking for Brown. However, as far as I can tell he gets the blame because of his position, not because he's actually directly responsible for anything particularly outrageous. The current problems can be laid at the doors of many people and organisations, in many countries, and over many years - it's far too easy and far too lazy to blame one prominent individual.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Hoagy on 08 May, 2010, 05:59:48 pm
RE; The Conservatives war strategy. Don't they still believe in the jolly officer rules war strategy?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 08 May, 2010, 07:17:13 pm
.His only defence for that is that the UK was part of a bigger problem and because now everything is interconnected globally once one economy starts to fail they all do.





You didnt read that part of my comment Robin so here it is again.

Brown was Chancellor and then an unelected PM so he has to be expected to take at the very least part of the blame for the mess but as i said above the problem is much much bigger than Brown.

However there are plenty of economists who do agree and understand the causes of the economic crisis but they dont work for the govt and they are not listened to.

For example the cause of the collapse of the problems in Greece are because of criminality that is all connected to Goldman Sachs and the other too big to fails and its hardly very likely that Gordon Brown would call for an investigation into that before any cash is handed over to Greece.




You mean ones you don't agree with? Seems to me that even experienced economists can't agree, so how you can expect politicians to understand or to presume that you understand is beyond me.



Its quite simple really.Brown has an army of advisors at hand or alternatively he could have sought the right kind of independent financial advice and listened to it as there are plenty of economists who do understand the causes of the problems and you dont even need to be an economist to understand it.As it is Brown is just fronting a criminal system.


So what should Brown have done? What have other countries like ours with economies that are heavily reliant on the financial services industry done that have proved more effective? What should have been done about banks that were collapsing?



Regards

Robin

Brown should not have given the banks that were too big to fail our cash without stipulating strict conditions on which the cash was lent so that the cash actually went back into the economy instead of just being simply removed.

Thats simple enough and thats the first thing he should have done if he had no choice to bail them out.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 08 May, 2010, 08:39:34 pm
I really don't like politicians in general, so I've no particular liking for Brown. However, as far as I can tell he gets the blame because of his position, not because he's actually directly responsible for anything particularly outrageous. The current problems can be laid at the doors of many people and organisations, in many countries, and over many years - it's far too easy and far too lazy to blame one prominent individual.

Sorry Robin but he wanted those jobs. I get sick of people passing the buck to other people, why can't he be a man and admit that he FUCKED UP. All of his mistakes will never touch the people in power, with money! It's going to be you and me who have a hard future.
When he was the Chancellor he could have changed things and stopped many things from getting way out of hand but he did NOTHING! The mark of a prudent man....


I'll only mention the KILLER TWO.

Selling 60% of the country's gold and letting every Fucker know in advance, which meant the price dropped to a 20 year low. Some place the loss to the treasury between 2 & 5 Billion pounds.

Remember the pension fiasco, when his own people told him not to do it and he just went ahead and changed the tax system (this hit the poor more than the rich - treasury officials reported). This will hit everyone with a pension, especially the POOR.

These two reasons alone are enough for me to detest the person

Here's a little bit about me so you know where I'm coming from.
I come from a mining background and since leaving school :-
I have never missed a days work, EVER!
I have paid into my different pensions constantly, because it's the right thing to do, even though I feel like stopping now.
I have never been in debt.
I don't own a credit card.
I live in the real world and live within my means.
I put money away each month into Sam's account (he now has more savings than us).
I am not the highest paid person in the country, by a long way!
I have just got on with what ever life throws at me, as I have a very strong work ethic. I always said that when I left the forces I would do the shitiest job going if needed, to pay for me and my family to get on and enjoy life. I was made redundant last summer but walked straight into a better job after 2 months gardening leave and that was paid for just being a HGV driver. Life is bloody strange but I knew I'd find work, no matter what.

Also, I knew that because of all the bad lending by irresponsible greedy people to greedy irresponsible people would bite us on the arse one day and I'm not an economist!
By the way, the government pay out more in benefits than they take in at the moment, that was from a BBC programme, we can't go on like this!

Here are a few ways I would improve this Great Country of ours!

All sports centres, youth clubs, swimming pools, etc to be paid for out of taxes. You can use your local ones free (may have to pay to use out of your area ones).
All the unemployed to be paid a certain wage and have to do charitable work, help the aged, clean the beaches, community stuff, etc.... (I suppose some people will moan that they have to work for the dole, well I'd change the bloody name then).
All buses and trains in the country are free, paid for by taxes again. More people would bloody use them then, if they knew that their taxes paid for them and you could just jump on and off with no tickets.

There we go, Tory me (who is the only person on here who can prove the way he voted, I did put my reason down for voting Liberal this time) believes in paying for that lot to benefit everyone in this country. Sometimes you have to break the mould and start again. The only problem with my idea is that the rich bods who own all the above would not be able to fleece everyone anymore and all parties wouldn't allow that.

Here endeth my report to save the country  ;)
 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 08 May, 2010, 09:57:58 pm

However there are plenty of economists who do agree and understand the causes of the economic crisis but they dont work for the govt and they are not listened to.

You mean the ones you happen to agree with. That doesn't make them right.

This is all opinion, Peter, not fact.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 May, 2010, 10:01:47 pm
I like your ideas, CF.

They sound expensive to me, but also quite progressive. All of them would need an increase in income tax to pay for them. I've never been against income tax rises myself, but some people are funny about that.

As far as the proposal to make unemployed people work without giving them real jobs goes, as somebody who has spent far too long a time unemployed myself, I can't say I'd be against it as all the things you've mentioned are socially useful. I volunteered anyway, but the job centre places time limits on it. If the deal were to work 20-30 hours a week for enhanced benefits, with a reduced expectation on numbers of job applications, I'd happily have done that.

I hated having to contend with the expectation to apply for jobs that paid so little I'd be worse off after factoring in food and travel costs. I also hated the additional penalties associated with working in the black economy when you're receiving benefits, and as a consequence I turned down neighbours' requests for help that came with a much desired offer of financial recompense, which I would have gladly done for nothing when I've had wages coming in.

Like "will you take Mrs so-and-so shopping every Wednesday? there's £20 in it for you." - "What like every Wednesday? Regularly?" - "Yes, regularly." - "Sounds a bit like a job. No, sorry - can't do that. Could land me in a whole heap of trouble with the benefits agency." - So Mrs so-and-so will have to just stay indoors and rely on relatives to bring her shopping round on a Saturday (for example).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 08 May, 2010, 10:15:53 pm

However there are plenty of economists who do agree and understand the causes of the economic crisis but they dont work for the govt and they are not listened to.

You mean the ones you happen to agree with. That doesn't make them right.

This is all opinion, Peter, not fact.

Regards

Robin

Wrong.

Facts are facts and truth is beyond subjectivity.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 May, 2010, 10:18:51 pm
Not where economics is concerned. It's a question of theory into practice. You can't presume a positivistic cause-and-effect relationship between two variables in economics because there are many, many more variables, and there isn't perfect agreement on how they fit together.

Economic policy is as much driven by political ideology as it is by scientific objectivity.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 08 May, 2010, 10:58:58 pm
When talking about and explaining the causes and the effects of the current economic crisis its very clear especially if you factor in criminality and corruption.


So if either yourself or Robin are suggesting that the causes of the current economic crisis havent been isolated or narrowed down to very specific factors then that completely ridiculous.

I am not sure i see any point in continuing to discuss this topic as its unproductive.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 May, 2010, 11:07:16 pm
I am not sure i see any point in continuing to discuss this topic as its unproductive

Ok, fine. I find economics boring anyway. If the causes of the economic crisis have been isolated, and they are criminality and corruption, then Gordon Brown's failure is in allowing criminality and corruption on a global scale to go on instead of putting a stop to them as a better man would have done.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 08 May, 2010, 11:28:08 pm
The Tories would have gone into Iraq and Afghanistan but they weren't the ones that did. Labour fucked up plenty of times constantly since they have been in power. Like the Conservatives did last time they were in, Labour have gone stagnant and are just too cock sure of themselves. I voted Tory just because I am sick at the way the country is being ran at the moment and it is good to have a change every now and again. To have the same party in over and over again just makes them think they can do what they want and not give a shit about the great unwashed. Complacency is never a good thing.

This is now the Tories turn to fuck up.

Perhaps have a similar way the Americans run their leaders. Any one person is allowed only two terms in office. Thatcher was in way too long, likewise Blair.

That is all




VNP
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 08 May, 2010, 11:42:21 pm
This is now the Tories turn to fuck up.

Kiss the BBC goodbye, then.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 08 May, 2010, 11:45:47 pm
Personally i think what Brown and Blair have done to this country is totally unforgivable and for a country to be virtually bankrupt after 12 years of economic growth regardless of how that came about

So what should Brown have done? What have other countries like ours with economies that are heavily reliant on the financial services industry done that have proved more effective? What should have been done about banks that were collapsing?

Quote
but personally i think certain political parties just have a total misunderstanding of economics.

You mean ones you don't agree with? Seems to me that even experienced economists can't agree, so how you can expect politicians to understand or to presume that you understand is beyond me.

Whether it's politicans or the public, I see a lot of criticism of Brown, but little in the way of practical alternatives that are supported by convincing evidence in their favour.

I really don't like politicians in general, so I've no particular liking for Brown. However, as far as I can tell he gets the blame because of his position, not because he's actually directly responsible for anything particularly outrageous. The current problems can be laid at the doors of many people and organisations, in many countries, and over many years - it's far too easy and far too lazy to blame one prominent individual.


Regards

Robin

Apart from selling our gold reserves and plundering the pension pot.  Nice one, Gordon!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 08 May, 2010, 11:50:19 pm
Apart from selling our gold reserves

Now, that was quite brain-fuckingly stupid.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 09 May, 2010, 12:16:49 am
Protests for electoral reform and against Sky News on the same day?

Have I died and gone to angry young man heaven?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 09 May, 2010, 12:19:16 am
This is now the Tories turn to fuck up.

Kiss the BBC goodbye, then.

Cheers

Jim

Rather the BBC than half the gold reserves.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 09 May, 2010, 12:25:14 am
Rather the BBC than half the gold reserves.

The gold reserves are already gone. How does sacrificing the BBC on the altar of market forces and the Tories' pandering to Murdoch have any bearing on that fact?

Cheers

Jim


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 12:26:48 am
I am not sure i see any point in continuing to discuss this topic as its unproductive

Ok, fine. I find economics boring anyway. If the causes of the economic crisis have been isolated, and they are criminality and corruption, then Gordon Brown's failure is in allowing criminality and corruption on a global scale to go on instead of putting a stop to them as a better man would have done.

I say this because my comments are totally disregarded and why ? well its because others dont like them or understand them and everything i type is somehow my own subjective opinion when its not as i am just telling it like it is regardless of what i think or what my opinion is.

So yes i find it unproductive.



The cause of the economic collapse in Greece has been directly attributed to the activities of the then Greek govt who colluded with Goldman Sachs to hide the then Greek debt and Credit Default Swaps.This is not the only contributory factor involved.The present Greek govt admit this themselves.

Wether i agree with this or not is irrelevent.

So yes the fact that i am having to constantly stress that what i am saying is beyond what i personally agree with other than it being fact like the above is very tiring and unproductive.Get over the fact that its me pointing this out and go look it all up yourself.The infromation is there for everyone if they want it.

The current problems can be laid at the doors of many people and organisations, in many countries, and over many years - it's far too easy and far too lazy to blame one prominent individual.


Regards

Robin

This comment is very true but by default GB has to be held accountable or blamed at least in part but quite honestly i find this kind of blame game unproductive because it diverts attention away from the real cause of it because like i said earlier this is all much bigger than GB.GB was just doing his job and doing what he was told to do in my opinion.

How complicit or culpable GB is in all of this debacle would be something for an independent impartial wider inquiry/investigation and perhaps even a criminal court to decide in the long term and its the same for Tony Blair and Iraq.If this happened then Tony Blair and Gordon Brown would not be found to be exclusively to blame.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 09 May, 2010, 12:40:52 am
TBH losing the BBC wouldn't bother me that much.
But it's not necessary losing the BBC but changing how its run. I don't watch it that much or TV in general.






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 10:13:23 am
I spent over an hour replying to this last night, then posted only to discover the connection had gone tits up and I lost everything. Some of you may have heard my cry of anguish.


All of his mistakes will never touch the people in power, with money! It's going to be you and me who have a hard future.

That always has and always will be the case.

Quote
Selling 60% of the country's gold and letting every Fucker know in advance, which meant the price dropped to a 20 year low. Some place the loss to the treasury between 2 & 5 Billion pounds.

Is that a loss per year or a one-off? If it's a one-off loss, it's bordering on the irrelevant, shocking though it may seem. The NHS alone cost £94 billion in 2008/9.


Quote
Remember the pension fiasco, when his own people told him not to do it and he just went ahead and changed the tax system (this hit the poor more than the rich - treasury officials reported). This will hit everyone with a pension, especially the POOR.

I admit I don't know much about this one - I'll ask my folks how they've been affected.


Quote
Here's a little bit about me so you know where I'm coming from.

Here's a little about me, because I like talking about myself:

My dad was a sales rep and my mum was a nurse. Dad was made redundant and took early retirement, mum only retired last year. Dad now does voluntary driving for the ambulance service, mum does voluntary work for the MS society.

Mum worked nights for decades and wore the same few dresses until the armpits wore out, and then had to keep wearing them. They spent all their money putting my brother and I through private education after the Tories closed down the local grammar school.

I have missed the odd-day from work, but not for years. After starting teacher training following two years unemployment I had appendicitits and glandular fever one on top of the other, and had to go back living with my folks for a year, got no benefits, and as a result of this won't be getting a full state pension.

Similarly, I've paid into my work pension schemes, but another two years at univeristy getting another degree resulted in missing more pension contributions, so even less of a state pension for me.

I've never been in debt or overdrawn, despite six years at university.

I've never owned a credit card.

I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't have a car or mobile phone - it staggers me how much money people are willing to waste on this stuff.

I don't have kids - I don't think I can afford them.

I'm paid well enough, currently on 24,000. My brother, with a tiny fraction of the qualifications I have and working the private sector as a machinist earns more.

I hate my job. I keep doing it because it's in the public sector and it matters. I live with the constant knowledge that if I fuck up, worst case scenario is that people die - my colleagues might say I'm being melodramatic, but in truth I don't they don't think about the implications a lot of the time.

Next five years, well, who knows if I'll have a job. The public sector is not safe. I don't blame any government - I blame the general public who demand more and more and more, without even attempting to find out how much services cost and refuse to vote for governments with open tax policies.


Quote
Also, I knew that because of all the bad lending by irresponsible greedy people to greedy irresponsible people would bite us on the arse one day and I'm not an economist!

I'd worked that out, too, but I blame the people who decided to borrow. I recieved all the offers of credit cards and ignored them, even at times when I had nothing. The government could have stepped in and controlled the banks, I suppose, but I can see all the headlines and forums crying 'nanny state!' if it had.


Quote
By the way, the government pay out more in benefits than they take in at the moment, that was from a BBC programme, we can't go on like this!

I agree. Increase taxes or kick people off benefits? Which one is going to get us elected?

Quote
Here are a few ways I would improve this Great Country of ours!

All sports centres, youth clubs, swimming pools, etc to be paid for out of taxes. You can use your local ones free (may have to pay to use out of your area ones).

What will you say to all the people who say these things are non-essential services, they're a waste of money that could be put into education, road-building, the NHS and so on? Those who don't want to use such services - I loathe exercise and never needed a youth club to keep me on the straight-and-narrow after school.


Quote
All the unemployed to be paid a certain wage and have to do charitable work, help the aged, clean the beaches, community stuff, etc.... (I suppose some people will moan that they have to work for the dole, well I'd change the bloody name then).

Fine. You realise this will require a massive reorganisation of the employment services, liaising with thousands of outside organisations, medical services to properly assess claimants and work, police checks for those working with the vulnerable. A huge increase in cost.

Quote
All buses and trains in the country are free, paid for by taxes again. More people would bloody use them then, if they knew that their taxes paid for them and you could just jump on and off with no tickets.

That's great - I don't drive and rely heavily (though not entirely) on public transport. However, I've argued with enough people to know how much others hate travelling alongside strangers, crammed in, unable to smoke and use their mobiles if they want to, aren't free to come and go at the time of their choosing, having to wait - the complaints are endless.

If we really want to help people, help society, and save millions if not billions every single year then we should ban alcohol and smoking, but I think we know what trying that would get us.

Quote
There we go, Tory me (who is the only person on here who can prove the way he voted, I did put my reason down for voting Liberal this time) believes in paying for that lot to benefit everyone in this country.

As I said way back, I'm not interested in knowing who you or anyone else voted for. And incidentally, a photo of a voting slip proves nothing - did we see it go into a box? I am not, repreat not, saying it didn't, just pointing out how easy it is to take something at face value.

Quote
Sometimes you have to break the mould and start again. The only problem with my idea is that the rich bods who own all the above would not be able to fleece everyone anymore and all parties wouldn't allow that.

I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public. Blaming everything on the rich or on governments is so, so easy - I did it myself for years - but when it comes down to it most people vote for themselves, not for society. I think that's the root of the problem.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 10:40:28 am
Here's a little about me, because I like talking about myself:

I forgot to mention that I'm currently growing a goatee. There's a depressing amount of white in it.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 09 May, 2010, 11:07:55 am


I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public. Blaming everything on the rich or on governments is so, so easy - I did it myself for years - but when it comes down to it most people vote for themselves, not for society. I think that's the root of the problem.


Quite right Robin. The problem being, when did you last see turkey's voting for christmas? Oh yes, Brighton wasn't it? They voted green!
Maybe there's hope yet. :)


I forgot to mention that I'm currently growing a goatee. There's a depressing amount of white in it.

Get used to it! It's only going to get worse. :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 09 May, 2010, 11:22:02 am
I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public.

Ah, ignorance. I read a touching analysis in The Guardian last week that described it as 'heartbreaking' that, in a survey, 70% of the British public agreed with the proposition that it is possible to reduce public spending without cutting front-line services.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 09 May, 2010, 12:42:23 pm
The live news feeds are very interesting at the moment.
It all seems to coming to an end.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 09 May, 2010, 12:44:20 pm
The live news feeds are very interesting at the moment.
It all seems to coming to an end.

The election stand-off or just things in general? :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 01:21:28 pm
I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public.

Ah, ignorance. I read a touching analysis in The Guardian last week that described it as 'heartbreaking' that, in a survey, 70% of the British public agreed with the proposition that it is possible to reduce public spending without cutting front-line services.

Actually, I suspect that is possible in the NHS. Unfortunately, much of it would also involve the public stopping smoking, stopping drinking, stopping eating unhealthily, doing more exercise, not going to the GM or A&E for niffles and grazes, and so on.

There's a  general perception that we're over-run by expensive managers, but in reality services are so complex that they need managing. What's currently happening is that when senior people are retiring, all the work they did is being shared out to other people who are already over-loaded with work and have no time, without any increase in pay.

I often wonder what the public consider front-line services to be. I work in the labs, so the public doesn't see me, but 70% of diagnoses are based on lab results.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 09 May, 2010, 01:33:46 pm
Hello uncle fester, it seems from what Brown is doing that he is resigned to leaving number 10.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 09 May, 2010, 01:39:10 pm
Unfortunately, much of it would also involve the public stopping smoking, stopping drinking, stopping eating unhealthily, doing more exercise,

But many of these people are still going to get cancer or develop other diseases requiring long-term care or expensive surgical solutions. At the same time, many of those who would otherwise obligingly die young or drop down dead from a coronary are going to live to an expensive old age requiring full time residential/nursing care.

Many (not you, I should add) people who put forward the argument that the NHS is burdened by treating the side effects of people's vices appear to believe that eliminating this behaviour simply allows you to subtract the total cost of those treatments from the NHS bill for the year. Is there any convincing work that projects the increased burdens on the state from increasing the life expectancy of the average Briton by a significant number of years?

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 09 May, 2010, 01:54:35 pm
My good lady works for the NHS and her mother retired from it a couple of years ago. Now from what they tell me, it is top heavy (by the way her mother was very high up) and the wastage of money is unbelievable, due to many factors!
The problem is, if you try to rock the boat by saying this, then say goodbye to your career.

Don't get me on about 'Team FUCKING Building exercises'  >:( anyway I'm moving off the subject ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 02:15:44 pm
Hello uncle fester, it seems from what Brown is doing that he is resigned to leaving number 10.

Good riddance.


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 09 May, 2010, 02:19:47 pm
Hello uncle fester, it seems from what Brown is doing that he is resigned to leaving number 10.

Good riddance.

I'd rather have a genetic amalgamation of Brown, Fred West and Piers Morgan running the country than Cameron!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 09 May, 2010, 02:59:23 pm
Isn't that what Cameron is?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 03:27:25 pm
Unfortunately, much of it would also involve the public stopping smoking, stopping drinking, stopping eating unhealthily, doing more exercise,

But many of these people are still going to get cancer or develop other diseases requiring long-term care or expensive surgical solutions. At the same time, many of those who would otherwise obligingly die young or drop down dead from a coronary are going to live to an expensive old age requiring full time residential/nursing care.

I can't point you to specific research, but epidemiologists do take this kind of stuff into account. And with specific regard to alcohol, when you add in the myriad social effects we start going beyond the NHS.

The aim is a longer life with fewer problems in old age as the result of healthier lifestyle when younger.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 03:54:23 pm
I used to get laughed at or thought of as weird by some because i ate healthily and didnt drink excessively or take drugs generally speaking  ;).I did a little bit as you have to live.

The not eating rubbish and checking the ingredients for additives etc was thought of as being particularly odd but my answer was and still is that i dont want to end up in a hospital bed when i am 50.


I cant wait to see if Mandelslime tries to do a deal with Tony Cameron.If Mandelslime joins the Conservatives then you know that nothing will have changed.I shall be watching this kind of thing very closely.


I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public. Blaming everything on the rich or on governments is so, so easy - I did it myself for years - but when it comes down to it most people vote for themselves, not for society. I think that's the root of the problem.


Regards

Robin

I dont think everything can be blamed exclusively on the electorate but i would say they are both equally to blame in different ways.The elites and govtsetc i mean.

Its easy to blame the people exclusively and it shows a clear lack of understanding to do so.In any case i am much less to blame because i constantly point out the corruption and criminality to raise awareness of how the system is wrong.Look what happens when i do that  :lol:  ::) .A chorus of disapproval and reflex actions caused by cognitive dissonance because a lot of people cant handle the truth.

You can lead a horse to water but you casnt force it to drink it.

Its like trying to blame the economic problems exclusively on the people and it doesnt stand up to any kind of scrutiny.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 04:13:37 pm
My good lady works for the NHS and her mother retired from it a couple of years ago. Now from what they tell me, it is top heavy (by the way her mother was very high up) and the wastage of money is unbelievable, due to many factors!
The problem is, if you try to rock the boat by saying this, then say goodbye to your career.

We all have our own experiences, but I'm already seeing the effects of removing manager-level posts and redistributing work to lower grades. I also tend to keep my ears open more than most of my colleagues, so I'm aware of the amount of work that goes on at higher levels. Those of us lower down the tree simply wouldn't able to operate without others taking on a massive amount of tedious but essential work. My other half and her sister also work in a related lab, and because of extra work they've had to take on, they can also attest to the amount of work staff higher up the tree have to cope with, and how necessary they are.

There's also an ongoing request in our Trust for ideas for saving money and reducing waste, all ideas welcome. We also do work for the private sector - because of our volume work, we're more cost effective than the private sector can ever possibly be, so we bring money into our department - this of course goes to the service not to staff.

It would be daft of me to suggest that in an organisation as large and diverse as the NHS there are aren't examples of bad practice and waste, but again I shy away from the easier targets.


Quote
Don't get me on about 'Team FUCKING Building exercises'  >:( anyway I'm moving off the subject ::)

Never been on or been offered a team building exercise - not aware of anyone else who has, either.

Public services are a subject worth discussing.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 04:21:34 pm
A chorus of disapproval and reflex actions caused by cognitive dissonance because a lot of people cant handle the truth.

*shrug* That could as easily be said about you as anyone else.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 04:44:16 pm
I've been trying to figure out who should be in charge...

Conservative - Votes: 10,706,647 -- 36.1%
Labour - Votes: 8,604,358 -- 29.0%
Liberal Democrat - Votes: 6,827,938 -- 23.0%

Only 36.1% of voters want the Conservative in charge.

Only 23% want the Lib Dems involved in government, but they're the ones who are the deciding factor.

If they both end up in charge, you disenfranchise ~40% of the population. If the Lib Dems and Labour got together, you'd disenfranchise ~48% of the population. Neither of those are insignificant minorities.

It seems to me that the real problem here is having to have a Prime Minister who is the leader of a party. What might be better is a cabinet whose members are elected by the MPs, with a PM elected by the elected cabinet.

Okay, that's a simplistic off-the-cuff idea. Come kick it around until it works.



Regards

Robin


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 04:49:14 pm
I've been trying to figure out who should be in charge...

Conservative - Votes: 10,706,647 -- 36.1%
Labour - Votes: 8,604,358 -- 29.0%
Liberal Democrat - Votes: 6,827,938 -- 23.0%

Only 36.1% of voters want the Conservative in charge.

Only 23% want the Lib Dems involved in government, but they're the ones who are the deciding factor.

If they both end up in charge, you disenfranchise ~40% of the population. If the Lib Dems and Labour got together, you'd disenfranchise ~48% of the population. Neither of those are insignificant minorities.

It seems to me that the real problem here is having to have a Prime Minister who is the leader of a party. What might be better is a cabinet whose members are elected by the MPs, with a PM elected by the elected cabinet. EDIT: This probably falls apart if one party has a huge majority.

Okay, that's a simplistic off-the-cuff idea. Come kick it around until it works.



Regards

Robin



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 05:34:40 pm
A chorus of disapproval and reflex actions caused by cognitive dissonance because a lot of people cant handle the truth.

*shrug* That could as easily be said about you as anyone else.

Regards

Robin

I havent got time for squabbling with you.

*

Its all becoming very clear what is going on here.

This election result is all a sham because even in a Hung Parliament you still dont have any across the board power sharing going on.Conservatives immediately offered to work with LibDems but not with Labour.Labour or Brown showed willingness to work with the conservatives and LibDems but i never followed that one up and now i cant find any reference to it on Google.

So no real power sharing going on because LibDems will join Conservatives and wont really have that much influence in the longer term so Conservatives will become the defacto ruling Majority govt rather than a minority govt and Labour will revert back to being in opposition again for the next 5 years.

This is clearly not a coalition government.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 05:46:42 pm
I havent got time for squabbling with you.

Given your normal posting rate, that surprises me.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 05:51:33 pm
I havent got time for squabbling with you.

Given your normal posting rate, that surprises me.

Regards

Robin

There you go again.You sounded like you wanted this thread to end in a flaming session but i wont be doing that.

I have lost respect for you now.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 06:53:20 pm
I havent got time for squabbling with you.

Given your normal posting rate, that surprises me.

Regards

Robin

There you go again.You sounded like you wanted this thread to end in a flaming session but i wont be doing that.

I have lost respect for you now.

Your post count is about eight times what mine is - it was hardly an unreasonable observation and certainly not hostile enough to be considered flaming.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 07:15:25 pm
I havent got time for squabbling with you.

Given your normal posting rate, that surprises me.

Regards

Robin

There you go again.You sounded like you wanted this thread to end in a flaming session but i wont be doing that.

I have lost respect for you now.

Your post count is about eight times what mine is - it was hardly an unreasonable observation and certainly not hostile enough to be considered flaming.

Regards

Robin

So what ?

What has my post rate got to do with what is being talked about here ?

Is this an attempt at muckraking ?

Its totally irrelevent because i said that i have no wish to squabble with you yet you chose to start being personal.

Also i didnt say that your comments were flaming up till now but its very clear to me how this could end which is why i said "I dont have time to squabble with you" which means i am not interested.

That was an attempt at spin but it was a failure.Just give it up.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 09 May, 2010, 07:28:53 pm
Don't get me on about 'Team FUCKING Building exercises'  >:( anyway I'm moving off the subject ::)
Never been on or been offered a team building exercise - not aware of anyone else who has, either.

You get team building exercizes in any large organization that takes management science guff seriously. I've had one recently as part of a larger training session not exclusively devoted to team building. It wasn't very useful to me, and if I were a trainer I wouldn't have used it, except maybe to fill time for which I was getting paid a consultancy fee.

I would echo what Robin said about higher tier management performing a necessary role, and what happens when their work gets shared out lower down the chain. Mistakes are made, and what gets delivered back up to the top tier ends up not being what the top wanted, expected, or promised customers.

By the way, plans have been in the pipeline for the past year to reduce budgets, freeze recruitment and even do away with a few senior posts altogether. Senior managers who leave the organization are not being replaced. Whether or not this has an adverse effect on quality and delivery only time will tell.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 08:02:12 pm
I havent got time for squabbling with you.

Given your normal posting rate, that surprises me.

Regards

Robin

There you go again.You sounded like you wanted this thread to end in a flaming session but i wont be doing that.

I have lost respect for you now.

Your post count is about eight times what mine is - it was hardly an unreasonable observation and certainly not hostile enough to be considered flaming.

Regards

Robin

So what ?

What has my post rate got to do with what is being talked about here ?

Is this an attempt at muckraking ?

Its totally irrelevent because i said that i have no wish to squabble with you yet you chose to start being personal.

Also i didnt say that your comments were flaming up till now but its very clear to me how this could end which is why i said "I dont have time to squabble with you" which means i am not interested.

That was an attempt at spin but it was a failure.Just give it up.

Peter, you said you didn't have time for squabbling. I was pointing out that your high post rate suggests that you have have plenty of time to spare. As I said, not an unreasonable observation, nor hostile, and certainly not muckraking or spin.

As I'm sure others will tell you, I never give up.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 09 May, 2010, 08:12:29 pm
As I'm sure others will tell you, I never give up.

Listen, and understand. Robin Low is out there. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you concede his point.

:-)

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 09 May, 2010, 08:26:47 pm
Leave this thread if you want to live?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 08:30:09 pm


Peter, you said you didn't have time for squabbling. I was pointing out that your high post rate suggests that you have have plenty of time to spare. As I said, not an unreasonable observation, nor hostile, and certainly not muckraking or spin.

As I'm sure others will tell you, I never give up.

Regards

Robin

How much time i may or may not have to spare is irrelevent like my post count as i clearly said i am not interested.The reason i am posting this is just to make myself clear rather than argue.

It does sound like you are after something here but unless you have anything interesting or constructive to say our conversation is over.I have the upper hand here.



You obviously dont know me very well at all either.

My personal record is 15 LONG replies to 15 long replies before the individual who i was arguing with gave up. Anyway i really dont have time for this at all and it would be a shame to ruin the thread dont you think ?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 09 May, 2010, 09:01:14 pm


Peter, you said you didn't have time for squabbling. I was pointing out that your high post rate suggests that you have have plenty of time to spare. As I said, not an unreasonable observation, nor hostile, and certainly not muckraking or spin.

As I'm sure others will tell you, I never give up.

Regards

Robin

How much time i may or may not have to spare is irrelevent like my post count as i clearly said i am not interested.The reason i am posting this is just to make myself clear rather than argue.

It does sound like you are after something here but unless you have anything interesting or constructive to say our conversation is over.I have the upper hand here.



You obviously dont know me very well at all either.

My personal record is 15 LONG replies to 15 long replies before the individual who i was arguing with gave up. Anyway i really dont have time for this at all and it would be a shame to ruin the thread dont you think ?

Irresistible force, meet immovable object...

;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 09 May, 2010, 09:16:38 pm
I want to watch them have sex.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 10:07:43 pm
I want to watch them have sex.

I suspect the foreplay would last for days...

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 09 May, 2010, 10:14:34 pm
I suspect the foreplay would last for days...

Holy Christ! I need to WASH MY BRAIN!

Cheers!

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 10:17:17 pm
...LONG replies...

This is partly where you're going wrong, Peter. Your posts are often so long and rambling that the point you're trying to make is often lost in the confusion. In all seriousness, and without intending to insult, you need to tighten your focus when you write.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 09 May, 2010, 10:24:34 pm
I suspect the foreplay would last for days...

Holy Christ! I need to WASH MY BRAIN!


It's not often I use these things, but  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 May, 2010, 10:59:19 pm
I am not sure i see any point in continuing to discuss this topic as its unproductive

Ok, fine. I find economics boring anyway. If the causes of the economic crisis have been isolated, and they are criminality and corruption, then Gordon Brown's failure is in allowing criminality and corruption on a global scale to go on instead of putting a stop to them as a better man would have done.

In defence of Gordon Brown and posted in the interests of fairness and believe it or not i didnt know about this until today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/18/gordon-brown-angela-merkel-goldman-sachs

Its interesting because i have not heard Gordon Brown be this openly critical about Goldman Sachs before.The actual amount of money involved is very small and its just one aspect of their activities and the tip of the iceberg and wether the investigation will go anywhere is uncertain but it helps to remember that even if Gordon Brown called for an investigation of Goldman Sachs they could easily block that or obstruct it in whatever way possible.

Its a start though.





Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 10 May, 2010, 11:47:07 am
Aw gents (wipes away tears of laughter), thanks so much for this last run of posts.. it's the first time I've ever found post-Roman politics interesting!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 10 May, 2010, 12:05:49 pm
Roman politics is interesting? ;)

Maybe we should vote for parliament to start lighting the winter nights with burning Christians, breeding with close family members and eating 'till they boke.


M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 10 May, 2010, 12:07:51 pm
Roman politics is interesting? ;)

Maybe we should vote for parliament to start lighting the winter nights with burning Christians, breeding with close family members and eating 'till they boke.


M.
Basically Norfolk? Well, if you replace the bit about Christians with minorities.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: stacey on 10 May, 2010, 12:14:21 pm
I wish they would just sort it all out and stopping posting pictures of Nick Clegg everywhere wearing his suit. It is playing havoc with my libido, he's not even that pretty - why's he so sexy?

This is my perfectly logical and reasonable assessment of current political shennigans. I'm off for a cold shower and to stay away from teh News for a couple of hours!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: pauljholden on 10 May, 2010, 12:18:33 pm
I wish they would just sort it all out and stopping posting pictures of Nick Clegg everywhere wearing his suit. It is playing havoc with my libido, he's not even that pretty - why's he so sexy?

This is my perfectly logical and reasonable assessment of current political shennigans. I'm off for a cold shower and to stay away from teh News for a couple of hours!

Is it because if you got into bed with him, you know you could make him do anything you liked? (badoom tish)

-pj
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 May, 2010, 01:25:25 pm
750 billion Euro rescue package:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8671632.stm

The article also states that the IMF are going to contribute 250 billion Euros but i am not clear if that is an additional 250 billion or not.Anyway this is their solution to everything.Cream as much cash off the taxpayer and throw it at the problem instead of investigating the root cause of it.

An investigation into Goldman Sachs would have saved the European economy 750 billion.


The taxpayer also funds the IMF.

Angela Merkel in reaction to this and the Greek bailouts and the cost to the German economy is to say that the banks - I.E Goldman Sachs and the other 6 major banks was to call them "Treacherous" but that is just for public consumption because elections are upcoming in Germany.

Thats unless she actually means it because people are starting to realise what is going on and when that happens politicians are right in the firing line.

Quote:


BERLIN — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday slammed "treacherous" practices by banks during the Greek crisis and said governments must crack down on speculators hunting profits in the turmoil.

Merkel, whose Christian Democrats face a tough re-election battle in Germany's most populous state Sunday, railed against gamblers on the financial markets who she said were exacerbating an already volatile situation.

"First the banks failed, forcing states to carry out rescue operations. They plunged the global economy over the precipice and we had to initiate recovery packages. Because of these packages, we have become indebted and now, they are speculating against these debts -- that is really very treacherous," she said.

"Governments must regain their supremacy over the markets, which they no longer have, and for that we need much stricter global rules," she added, at a debate on Europe organised by a public broadcaster.

Merkel said it was now up to the European Union member states to reassert their authority and shore up the financial rules governing the bloc.

"We must clearly demonstrate that in Europe we have the political power, each in his own country, of getting back on the track of the Stability and Growth Pact," she said.

"It is a fight of policy against the markets. That is how I see it personally but I am determined -- as are my colleagues, I am certain -- to win this fight and we will be victorious, I am sure."
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 10 May, 2010, 01:29:01 pm
I wish they would just sort it all out and stopping posting pictures of Nick Clegg everywhere wearing his suit. It is playing havoc with my libido, he's not even that pretty - why's he so sexy?

Just imagine him cozying up to Gordon Brown in a sauna and that should put you right.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 10 May, 2010, 01:30:14 pm
Just imagine him cozying up to Gordon Brown in a sauna and that should put you right.

Ewww! Will you pack that in?

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 10 May, 2010, 01:34:05 pm
Ewww! Will you pack that in?


I would, but it's grown too big.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 10 May, 2010, 01:36:30 pm
Ewww! Will you pack that in?


I would, but it's grown too big.

Regards

Robin

Take a cold shower then.






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 10 May, 2010, 01:55:52 pm
An investigation into Goldman Sachs would have saved the European economy 750 billion.

An investigation wouldn't save anything, only the potential action taken as a result of it. What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount? Is this the same sort of maths that gave you the "we'd save £120 billion by withdrawing from the EU" figure?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 10 May, 2010, 02:45:48 pm
The star of this election for me was "Mighty Fist Man"
He's made the pages of the Chortle.
http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2010/05/09/10965/whos_this_comedian%3F
 (http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2010/05/09/10965/whos_this_comedian%3F)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 10 May, 2010, 03:07:45 pm
If, and it's a big if, the politicians are beginning to maneuver themselves into an anti-central bank stance because the people are waking up to the fact that our governments are not in control of the money supply (and so, by extension, CANNOT be in control of their respective countries), then I expect some big banking heads to be ostensibly sacrificed to appease the masses. Perhaps even a few more presidents lost in accidents or high-profile politicians sacrificed on the altar of Very Bad Press as the Banksters attempt to reassert their position. If the Banksters feel threatened, they will further restrict the supply of money into the economy and their media allies will blame the governments. This is the time to be strong, and to look for solutions very different to the ones being offered by the Banksters. Never Trust A Banker.

This is all very interesting and could indeed be the beginning of the end of the central banks' grip on the governments of this world. I can only hope and pray, for all our sakes, that the population of Europe is finally cottoning on to the horrendous vampire attached to the very hearts of our democracies. Let your government create and control its own money supply and that vampire will wither and die to the benefit of virtually everyone.

The time is coming for a revolution fought not with bullets but with Truth. Arm yourselves with that truth and fire it at any politician or public servant you meet. That truth is that our government has abnegated its right to create and control the United Kingdom's money supply and handed it on to private banks. As a result, these private banks have an ungodly amount of control over the economy and, as a natural extension of that, control over society itself. If you want your elected politicians in control of your society and not a bunch of bankers you've never heard of, then campaign for this one simple thing: Let MY government create and control MY country's money.

Don't take my word for it. If you want to do your own research on this most important of issues, here are a few key words to get you started:

Jekyll Island
President Woodrow Wilson "A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit..."
executive order 11110
http://www.michaeljournal.org/lesson4.htm
http://www.prosperityuk.com/prosperity/articles/bankchaos.html
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: stacey on 10 May, 2010, 03:19:24 pm
I wish they would just sort it all out and stopping posting pictures of Nick Clegg everywhere wearing his suit. It is playing havoc with my libido, he's not even that pretty - why's he so sexy?

This is my perfectly logical and reasonable assessment of current political shennigans. I'm off for a cold shower and to stay away from teh News for a couple of hours!

Is it because if you got into bed with him, you know you could make him do anything you liked? (badoom tish)

 hehehe, but also, NOT helping! :-D

-pj
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 May, 2010, 05:17:06 pm
An investigation into Goldman Sachs would have saved the European economy 750 billion.

An investigation wouldn't save anything, only the potential action taken as a result of it. What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount? Is this the same sort of maths that gave you the "we'd save £120 billion by withdrawing from the EU" figure?

I thought i made it clear that the 120 billion was a typo and i meant 12 billion ?

Pay attention at the back !

I suggest an investigation into the banking fraud/embezzlement which would in turn uncover the fraud and then in turn it would have saved the taxpayer money.The result of a successful investigation would result in criminal charges against Goldman Sucks and their assets siezed and frozen until the investigation is complete.

So Ok the 750 billion would have to be allocated to bailing out various countries until the investigation was complete but in theory it would be returnable to the taxpayer and it would be deducted from the accounts of Goldin Sacks.

*

BTW LS there are extremely suspicious circumstances surrounding the 1000 point drop in the Dow Jones Index last Friday which coincided with the meeting that was to decide and approve the 750 Euro bailout fund.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 10 May, 2010, 05:41:54 pm
Holy shit!

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 10 May, 2010, 05:45:12 pm
Here's a small thing that has been bugging me since the election was known to be heading into a hung government.
All we get from the Labour lot at the moment is lets have PR. I don't recall them wanting it at any election since 97 when they had a landslide victory (I voted Labour then as I was sick of the sleaze and no-one being man (or woman) enough to stand down as an MP). Every election since they could have said lets do PR this time, as no-one could have stopped them, with their majority.
Now they don't get a lanslide victory and the white hankies are out, "WE DEMAND PR", you have to laugh. PR will mean that one lot are never in charge, could this be the reason Labour didn't want it in the last few elections  ;)

Also listening to and watching the news (I include the :lol: impartial :lol: BBC in this) it seems that many backbenchers from both Labour and Conservative parties don't want PR. You have to laugh don't you  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 10 May, 2010, 06:02:28 pm
GOODBYE GORDON BROWN but not the Labour party, yet!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 03:40:33 am
What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount?

Correctly identify and find the cause of the problem

Dig a very large hole out in the middle of nowhere.No particular location as any will do providing it fits the criteria.

Place the cause of the problem into the above hole.

Add generous amounts of Quicklime

Fill the hole up again with the soil you excavated from it and level it off.

Then forget about it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 11 May, 2010, 09:38:52 am
What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount?

Correctly identify and find the cause of the problem

Dig a very large hole out in the middle of nowhere.No particular location as any will do providing it fits the criteria.

Place the cause of the problem into the above hole.

Add generous amounts of Quicklime

Fill the hole up again with the soil you excavated from it and level it off.

Then forget about it.

An elegantly and precisely phrased post, and rather amusingly tempting, if unpractical. Just need to correctly identify the cause or causes now.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 11 May, 2010, 10:54:26 am
I suggest an investigation into the banking fraud/embezzlement which would in turn uncover the fraud and then in turn it would have saved the taxpayer money.The result of a successful investigation would result in criminal charges against Goldman Sucks and their assets siezed and frozen until the investigation is complete.

Hard to know where to start with this nonsense. Who would prosecute the case? In which jurisdiction? Who would the actual defendants be? What would the charges be? Remember that many of the sharp practices of the banking industry may look like fraud or corruption to a normal reasoanble observer, but aren't actually illegal. A prosecution would also cost millions and take months if not years, all at the expense of the taxpayer.

So Ok the 750 billion would have to be allocated to bailing out various countries until the investigation was complete but in theory it would be returnable to the taxpayer and it would be deducted from the accounts of Goldin Sacks.
Goldman Sachs don't have a big bank vault full of cash, they actually have very few assets at all. They generate vast profits by moving other people's money around. In the unlikely event that you could bring a successful case against them, the moment this became clear, the company would instantly crash and be worth precisely zilch.

Now destroying the company may be a good thing in the long run, but it would cost the taxpayer a lot of money, and generate nothing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Delingpole on 11 May, 2010, 01:05:51 pm
Does anyone remember the Lib Lab Flab alliance? I think the fatties could make all the difference.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 01:16:58 pm


Hard to know where to start with this nonsense. Who would prosecute the case? In which jurisdiction? Who would the actual defendants be? What would the charges be? Remember that many of the sharp practices of the banking industry may look like fraud or corruption to a normal reasoanble observer, but aren't actually illegal. A prosecution would also cost millions and take months if not years, all at the expense of the taxpayer.



Why is it nonsense ?

Articles :

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=investigate+goldman+sachs&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6A9&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&prmd=n&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=O0PpS6r3MZ_SmgOY56jjDA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CC4QsQQwAw

This is the latest on the ongoing effort to audit the federal reserve:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3zPPiAFVPs4J:www.chrismartenson.com/forum/audit-fed-bill-trouble-ron-paul-calls-our-support/39190+ron+paul+withdraws+support+from+auditing+the+fed&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

Read the comments especially the final comment which summarises it pretty well.

I havent got time to address any of your other points right now but i am sure you dont think that leaving things as they are is a viable option and its the only way to sort out the mess concerning the Derivatives bubble before it goes POP!!! with MASSIVE financial consequences.Also it is very difficult to know exactly where to start.


What do you suggest should have been done to save this whopping amount?

Correctly identify and find the cause of the problem

Dig a very large hole out in the middle of nowhere.No particular location as any will do providing it fits the criteria.

Place the cause of the problem into the above hole.

Add generous amounts of Quicklime

Fill the hole up again with the soil you excavated from it and level it off.

Then forget about it.

An elegantly and precisely phrased post, and rather amusingly tempting, if unpractical. Just need to correctly identify the cause or causes now.

Regards

Robin

Its good to agree on something Robin. :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 11 May, 2010, 02:08:05 pm
i agree that it's difficult to know where to start and that the current set up is not viable, but investigations or legal cases against these banks would not suddenly cause all those billions to flow back to the taxpayer.

And as the current (probably failing) prosecution of two GS execs shows, it's enormously difficult to put topgether a successful prosecution, even in the most blatant of examples. And again, if it ever looked like being possible, the banks' shares would just plummet until there was no money left in the company to seize.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 02:33:50 pm
"Nonsense?" You think these banks are all out to make the world a better place for everyone, Dan? You think that the banks have a God given right to charge us for using our own money? You think the banks are entitled to hold entire countries to ransom? You think the banks should be allowed to create and control the money supply you elected a government (ie, Chancellor) to create and control? You think the banks are totally immune to the temptations afforded by being in total control of trillions of dollars? We should just leave things as they are because... well, why would anyone want to leave things as they are?

Banks are not intrinsically evil; society needs banks because society needs money. Money can be compared to water; we all need it, and for some to hoard and manipulate it while others starve is an abomination against humanity. Do the banks really need to operate the way they do? If you go for a mortgage or loan, the "money" the bank "lends" you simply doesn't exist until you ask for it. Then it becomes a debt, negative money if you will. You give your hard earned cash to the bank to clear this non-existent debt and also pay interest on top of that for the pleasure.

Is that fair? Of course not, both the Bible and the Koran call this abhorrent practice "usury" and class it as a sin. Muslim banks don't pay or charge interest because it's against their religion. Christian banks don't give a toss about stuff like that and employ usury as something to be applauded and increased. Even the people who wrote the Bible and the Koran understood that the banking system we seem to think is so reputable these days is actually a scam. We need to re-learn the wisdom of the ancients and start treating money as a necessity of life, not an end in itself.

Love of money is, after all, the root of all evil.

I favour the following option:

1: Issue a declaration of amnesty against all politicians and bankers involved in the practice of keeping governments away from their right to print and control the money supply of their individual nations. There are only two sides to be on; debt-free money or debt-based money. Anyone who opts to be on the side of debt-based money will be declared a criminal and prosecuted accordingly. Anyone coming down on the side of government controlled and created, debt-free money will be issued a complete pardon.

2: A series of open-ended, rolling strikes (like the ones the Spanish employed to stop their government sending troops to the illegal Iraq war), marches, flash-mobs, rolling roadblocks, civil disobedience, sit-ins and boycotts will be continued until the debt-based money supporters resign from office or are arrested. (It is important here not to boycott the high street banks themselves, as any direct move against the banks will give them the excuse to reduce the money supply into the economy and blame the resulting financial hardships on the boycotts/rolling strikes.)

3: Once the government begins creating and controlling the UK's money supply, we will still pay back all those bonds/gilts that people have paid for with "real" money. Those people who took money from their bank accounts to pay for government bonds, or gilts, will still be paid back. Those banks who took government bonds/gilts without paying for them with real money (ie, those who have yet to pay or who used debt-money (created at the push of a button or stroke of a pen) will not be paid back as this money never existed in the first place and so will not be missed by the banks.)

4: Once government created, debt-free money begins flowing into the economy it will eventually flush out the old debt-based currency (a little like a blood transfusion). High street banks will be ordered to work towards full reserve banking (ie, they can only lend out the money they can cover with their reserves). This can be phased in over a number of years, meaning that the banks can start with 10% reserve banking for the first year, 20% reserve for the second year and so on. Social banking (mortgages for family homes, loans for private or home use) will be handled by the newly government reclaimed Bank of England for zero interest - only a handling fee for handling the paperwork etc.

5: Let society evolve without the constant drain of the current banking system sapping all our resources.

It can be done without bloodshed or society collapsing. It's not rocket surgery.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 11 May, 2010, 02:52:42 pm
I haven't read your full post yet, but the answer to the questions in your first paragraph is a resounding NO - if I thought any of those things, I would have said so, and they are pretty much the opposite of my own views. Don't assume to tell me what I think and then criticise me for it.

The "nonsense" was the naive idea that an investigation of Goldmans would allow the taxpayer to recoup $750bn.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 02:57:02 pm
If I'd assumed, I'd have presented each of those opening sentences without question marks.

I'm not getting at anybody's beliefs, I just present my own in as forceful manner as possible. If this upsets anyone, then that's a Good Thing as this is a subject that we should all be upset about.

Nothing personal, Dan.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 11 May, 2010, 03:10:08 pm
That's how Hitler started!  ;)

(well we've already had "my opinions aren't opinions they're facts" and "you are not agreeing so I am no longer discussing this with you" in this thread, so I thought I'd best chuck in the last of the Holy Trinity of internet political arguments!)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 03:19:54 pm
Burning of the Reichstag / September 11th.

Your Hitler comment is not entirely without merit here... :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 03:39:26 pm


(well we've already had "my opinions aren't opinions they're facts" and "you are not agreeing so I am no longer discussing this with you" in this thread, so I thought I'd best chuck in the last of the Holy Trinity of internet political arguments!)

Not exactly. I was quite happy to argue about something rather than nothing in particular plus it seemed like it was heading towards pointless unproductive arguing.That seemed to be where it was heading which is why i stopped.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 11 May, 2010, 07:32:24 pm
I hope everyone is cheering, the person who is solely responsible for destroying our childrens futures, by spending money that he didn't have (from our pensions) has finally buggered off.

What a disgrace, using the children to get the sympathy and pity vote.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 11 May, 2010, 07:47:27 pm
Quote
If this upsets anyone, then that's a Good Thing as this is a subject that we should all be upset about.

This is a comics website.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 07:53:30 pm
This is a comics website.

Gets busy on MACH 1 BkII: The Alien Bankers of 9/11...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Paul faplad Finch on 11 May, 2010, 07:59:20 pm
What if the Queen carks it between one guy leaving and the other arriving. Sorry if thats in bad taste but considering the farce this election has been so far I wouldn't be massively surprised.

Do we have to thn wait for Charlie - or whoever - to be crowned before a new Government can be sworn in?

Is there even a law in place to cover this eventuality?

Not a joke, I'm genuinely curious and I'm not particularly well clued up on these things.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 11 May, 2010, 08:02:31 pm
I reckon the Queen should tell Cameron to fuck off and then re-start Imperial rule.








V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 11 May, 2010, 08:08:02 pm
I reckon the Queen should tell Cameron to fuck off and then re-start Imperial rule.

YES and bring back debtors prisons  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 11 May, 2010, 08:26:10 pm
And don't forget declaring war on France and Spain.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 11 May, 2010, 08:27:17 pm
And don't forget declaring war on France and Spain.

Lets's take back America  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 08:32:29 pm
I hope everyone is cheering, the person who is solely responsible for destroying our childrens futures, by spending money that he didn't have (from our pensions) has finally buggered off.

What a disgrace, using the children to get the sympathy and pity vote.

I am not cheering at all though i will say good riddance.As for destroying ours and our childrens futures then i hate to dissapoint you but its not going to stop just because of the exit of Gordon Brown.

Prepare yourself for more of the same.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: mogzilla on 11 May, 2010, 08:36:24 pm
And don't forget declaring war on France and Spain.

Lets's take back America  ;)

and oz!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 08:43:02 pm
Speaking of Imperialism, am I the only person who hears the Imperial March from Star Wars playing in my head every time I see Lord Mandleson? In fact, I'm beginning to hear it every time I see an image of Number 10...

Of course, we'd all like to avoid any Imperial entanglements.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 11 May, 2010, 08:44:39 pm
I hope everyone is cheering, the person who is solely responsible for destroying our childrens futures, by spending money that he didn't have (from our pensions) has finally buggered off.

What a disgrace, using the children to get the sympathy and pity vote.

I am not cheering at all though i will say good riddance.As for destroying ours and our childrens futures then i hate to dissapoint you but its not going to stop just because of the exit of Gordon Brown.

Prepare yourself for more of the same.

I know that but he should have just said we have no money to do all the things Tony and I promised.
Just because the Conservative lot got in doesn't mean it's going to get better overnight, it may take generations. Saying that, so long as you lot keep eating I'll be okay  ;)

Also Shark, it is a known fact that Mandelson has signed things in the past 'The Dark Lord'
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Pete Wells on 11 May, 2010, 08:54:18 pm
Yeuch, I can't believe that horrible smug cunt is my Prime minister, I fucking hate him. Depressed now...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Colin YNWA on 11 May, 2010, 09:01:19 pm
Well thats just bloody terrible
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 11 May, 2010, 09:09:35 pm
crap.

crappity crap crap crap crap.

Buggering bollocking arsebiscuits.

Only slim positive I can see - they'll be so unpopular once the cutbacks start to bite (and the fatcats stay fat) that in 4 years time they'll be unelectable for decades. (But then again, I said something similar every time Thatcher got back in, and we still elected Major)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Hoagy on 11 May, 2010, 09:13:17 pm
William Somerset: [discovering what's inside the package] California, tell your people to stay away. Stay away now, don't - don't come in here. Whatever you hear, stay away! John Doe has the upper hand.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: GordonR on 11 May, 2010, 09:27:47 pm
Look on the bright side.  2000AD's golden age happened under (and possibly as a reaction to) a Conservative government.

The 2000AD resurgence starts here!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 09:51:22 pm
C.A.M.E.R. One?

Please Grud, no...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 09:56:41 pm
David CaMoron.

Nothing personal as its just a pun on the name.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 11 May, 2010, 10:09:35 pm
Cameron LA-LA-LA Cameron LA-LA-LA.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 11 May, 2010, 10:15:22 pm
Cameron Eileen
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 11 May, 2010, 10:22:37 pm
I Cameron inside all of yous moms.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 11 May, 2010, 10:25:51 pm
Cameron Eileen

You're fired -- Ed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 11 May, 2010, 10:44:00 pm
Cameron and Obama talk together on the telephone about the "special relationship" between the UK and the US.

How predictable.This means another 5 years of the UK being entangled in and participating in the protracted overseas conflicts that are part of the Agenda of the Trilateral Commission etc etc etc.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 11 May, 2010, 10:46:24 pm
Be fair now, everyone has to have a turn.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 11 May, 2010, 10:46:58 pm
What if the Queen carks it between one guy leaving and the other arriving. Do we have to thn wait for Charlie - or whoever - to be crowned before a new Government can be sworn in?

I'm guessing Charles would do the formalities. The Coronation, another formality, would come later.


Roll on the next election. I want my single transferable vote.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 11 May, 2010, 11:00:09 pm
I'd best get an abortion before they're made illegal.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: CrazyFoxMachine on 11 May, 2010, 11:21:22 pm
Welcome to the age of spin gentlemen. I look forward to being lied to on a daily basis by and about everything.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 11 May, 2010, 11:28:52 pm
Welcome to the age of spin gentlemen. I look forward to being lied to on a daily basis by and about everything.

And why is that different to before the election?






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 11 May, 2010, 11:45:33 pm
That Samantha needs a good fucking.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Rio De Fideldo on 11 May, 2010, 11:47:08 pm
I don't normally like to comment about politics on a forum dedicated to a comic.

I also don't like to swear on a forum where kids may be reading.


Having said all that...







I can't fucking believe the fucking Tories are back in control.

 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: CrazyFoxMachine on 11 May, 2010, 11:50:09 pm
And why is that different to before the election?

Because this government is being sponsored by it instead of the other way round. This is propagandatown now.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 12 May, 2010, 12:19:00 am
And why is that different to before the election?

Because this government is being sponsored by it instead of the other way round. This is propagandatown now.

Its business as usual then.

The Blair/Brown adminstration ran on spin.

I dont have a short or selective memory.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 12 May, 2010, 12:22:50 am
Under the rule of the Consiberal Party, there will be minimal spin and all memories will be subject to Government approval. Everything is under control. Go back to your duties.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Paul faplad Finch on 12 May, 2010, 12:27:28 am
What if the Queen carks it between one guy leaving and the other arriving. Do we have to thn wait for Charlie - or whoever - to be crowned before a new Government can be sworn in?

I'm guessing Charles would do the formalities. The Coronation, another formality, would come later.


Roll on the next election. I want my single transferable vote.

I figured as much but wasn't sure which formality would take prescedence(sp?). Common sense would dictate that you would get the Government running - if installing this lot could ever be called common sense - but you never know.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: CrazyFoxMachine on 12 May, 2010, 12:31:32 am
Sigh. Listen man, I'm just trying to point out that this government is sponsored by Rupert Murdoch, Sky News, the Daily Mail, The Sun, Simon Cowell and BASICALLY everything that makes modern media disgustingly biased toward intolerance and stupidity. I'm not trying to say that before that this kind of thing wasn't present but now it's more than an ugly minority. Now it's the law.

PUNK!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 12 May, 2010, 12:43:07 am
Sigh. Listen man, I'm just trying to point out that this government is sponsored by Rupert Murdoch, Sky News, the Daily Mail, The Sun, Simon Cowell and BASICALLY everything that makes modern media disgustingly biased toward intolerance and stupidity. I'm not trying to say that before that this kind of thing wasn't present but now it's more than an ugly minority. Now it's the law.

PUNK!

Can you explain with a bit more detail ?

I need some examples because AFAIAC the tabloids and the rest spin every election.





Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: CrazyFoxMachine on 12 May, 2010, 01:08:59 am
Can you explain with a bit more detail ?

No. If you genuinely feel that the tabloids haven't gained any footing at all in this election and all is the same as before then my only words are HURRAY IGNORANCE! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/may/10/general-election-power-of-press)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 May, 2010, 01:14:09 am
I had a thought the other day about how League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier predicted all this: the dismantling of 'True Labour,' and everything they stood for being swept away almost overnight.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 12 May, 2010, 04:09:38 pm
Clegg and Cameron's comedy double act when at the lawn press conference Dave was asked about his old favourite joke being two words - "Nick" and "Clegg", was brilliant. It bodes well.

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 12 May, 2010, 05:46:49 pm
I do laugh when Labour lovies slag off certain newspapers and Murdoch for going with the Conservatives, especially the Sun. Did these Labour bods say the same when the Sun and Murdoch backed the Labour party, seems very strange or is it just that they are sore losers.
In fact they are so sore that Twitter and numerous other places seems to be full of them wanting the ConLibDem lot to fail, I wonder if that means they want the country to fail, so that we are all in the shit. Anything to get Labour in, dear me!
I hope you all puked when Brown mentioned his love of the troops, is that the same love that messed up getting the kit out to them and never turning up for the return of any of our fallen. He also went on about being green in his goodbye speech and then he went by PLANE up to Scotland.
I was hoping he would go by boat like that other Labour pension thief and fall overboard and do us all a favour.

Anyway, it looks like our new leaders have many interesting ideas, my favourite is to get the workshy into some sort of job. Before everyone winges about those jobs are not the ones that these people will want, tough shit, life is like that. Only a few people on this planet have the jobs they want (which pay well obviously).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 12 May, 2010, 07:52:27 pm
Anyway, it looks like our new leaders have many interesting ideas, my favourite is to get the workshy into some sort of job.

I seem to recall they had that policy throughout the 80s and 90s. Oddly enough, nothing came of it.

I'm curious to know what 'some sort of job is'. I mean, would you want to employ the genuinely workshy?

I suspect the only way to really deal with this problem is to restore a sense of shame in unemployment and pride in a job well done, but god knows how you do that.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 12 May, 2010, 08:00:36 pm
I'm curious to know what 'some sort of job is'. I mean, would you want to employ the genuinely workshy?

I suspect the only way to really deal with this problem is to restore a sense of shame in unemployment and pride in a job well done, but god knows how you do that.

I agree with your last bit Robin but rather then just keep going the way we are going something needs to be done. It's a work ethic thing, generations have seen their parents live a cushy life on benefits so why should their children bother when mugginns here will pay for it  ::)

As for the jobs, lets get them cleaning the country up and if they don't like it, cut their benefits. Also these jobs would be paid a living wage.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 12 May, 2010, 08:01:41 pm
Sigh. Listen man, I'm just trying to point out that this government is sponsored by Rupert Murdoch, Sky News, the Daily Mail, The Sun, Simon Cowell and BASICALLY everything that makes modern media disgustingly biased toward intolerance and stupidity. I'm not trying to say that before that this kind of thing wasn't present but now it's more than an ugly minority. Now it's the law.

PUNK!

Murdoch played a big hand in Labour's win in 1996 giving hardly any press backing for the tories, so nothing changes as far as I can see it, seems the media choose who wins. Just sour grapes for labour.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 12 May, 2010, 08:48:09 pm
Murdoch played a big hand in Labour's win in 1996 giving hardly any press backing for the tories, so nothing changes as far as I can see it, seems the media choose who wins. Just sour grapes for labour.

Except that in 1996, Sky was an expanding business -- now Murdoch's business is profitable but flat, and he has his eye very firmly on having the BBC's remit savagely reined in to create space in the market for his expansion plans.

Now, I know you don't care, but I do!

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 May, 2010, 08:53:05 pm
Anyway, it looks like our new leaders have many interesting ideas, my favourite is to get the workshy into some sort of job.

The main problem there is, we struggle at the moment to find enough jobs for the 2.5 million who count in the unemployment figures to do, never mind the something like 9 million working-age adults classed as 'economically inactive.' Aside from labour camps, I don't know how you magic up the best part of 10 million jobs overnight.

The problem with creating jobs is someone has to pay wages. I seem to remember Thatcher thinking it was cheaper to put miners on the dole than pay them to mine coal.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 12 May, 2010, 08:56:45 pm
I know, why don't we do nothing then and let the people who do work keep paying for the people who can't be arsed.

If we can pay all this money out in benefits lets get them doing something for it then instead
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 12 May, 2010, 08:58:45 pm
Sorry, this is a tad lupine...

I'm curious to know what 'some sort of job is'. I mean, would you want to employ the genuinely workshy?

I suspect the only way to really deal with this problem is to restore a sense of shame in unemployment and pride in a job well done, but god knows how you do that.

I agree with your last bit Robin but rather then just keep going the way we are going something needs to be done. It's a work ethic thing, generations have seen their parents live a cushy life on benefits so why should their children bother when mugginns here will pay for it  ::)

I think you're right about the generation/work ethic thing, but I'm inclined to blame the 80s Conservatives for creating that generation. For example, closing down the mines may well have been an economic necessity, but as far as I remember they made no effort at all to help set-up and develop new industries. They Conservatives put a good part of a generation on the dole, and their children followed.

Sure, that's a gross simplification, and these things never are simple, but I think there's an essential truth there. I don't think that the Conservatives have ever acknowledged that they had a hand creating this situation, and I think their failure to it recognise doesn't bode well for attempts to fix it.

Quote
As for the jobs, lets get them cleaning the country up and if they don't like it, cut their benefits. Also these jobs would be paid a living wage.

I go back to the points I made back thread when you raised this before: how are you going to organise and fund this? It's gonna cost to make it work properly.

Cutting benefits always sounds tempting, and superficially it's hard to see what's wrong with the idea. However, there are always going to be knock-on effects: increased crime, increased domestic violence, more children in poverty and taken into care, more people ending up on the streets, and so.

I'm not advocating throwing our hands up in the air and crying there's nothing to be done, but we have to remember that actions are going to have consequences beyond those we want or we expect.

The politicians, on all sides, spout the things we want to hear, but do the things they believe in ideologically, rarely thinking about the negative consequences and never accepting it when they fuck up. Essentially, I'm just saying be cautious when you hear the things you want to hear, because it won't necessarily work out for the best, for you or the country.



For what it's worth, while I've never been a fan of the idea of military National Service, I'm increasingly interested in a broader concept of National Service. We need to change people's lives and attitudes to work, so we get them into work as soon as they leave school - there's no thinking about looking for work, three years public service becomes a part of life like going to school. We have a huge public sector, so we use it. There are plenty of different sorts of jobs for all sorts of ability - however it does require a complete separation of public sector and private sector, except where the public is making money out of the private.

I don't think we can just take people off the dole now and shove them into hospitals or the services - this has to be something that happens to a new generation, so that it seems natural, expected.

University, well, I'm a smart-arse with three degrees, but I think there are far too-many people going to university right now who simply shouldn't be there. Sorry, we need the smart  and creative ones going there, the ones who are going to contribute to the country's science and technology and, yes, the arts too, because there has to be something outside work. You can apply to university and if you get in fine. However, after you get your degree you have a choice: pay for your degree yourself and you're free to go into the private sector; go into the public sector for three years after it and the state pays for it. You can put off the inevitable with higher degrees. If you're good and industry snaps you up then, maybe they'll pay off the degree for you.

Cost, well I imagine that will be fucking enormous, the administration a nightmare, and it won't be easy. Undoubtedly there will be all the negative consequences I haven't thought of. However, off the top of my head I can't think of another way to restore the idea of a normal working life for all people, create involvement and understanding of the public services, and benefit the country as a whole.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 12 May, 2010, 09:01:08 pm
I know, why don't we do nothing then and let the people who do work keep paying for the people who can't be arsed.



Bring back labour camps and get the work shy scum bramble picking. It's these scum who moan about the Eastern Europeans coming over here to take our jobs but these are the jobs they are doing. If these slack arses did the jobs there wouldn't be any need to look to these countries to do the 'menial jobs'







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: HOO-HAA on 12 May, 2010, 09:06:51 pm
I know, why don't we do nothing then and let the people who do work keep paying for the people who can't be arsed.



Bring back labour camps and get the work shy scum bramble picking.

Labour had... camps? For bramble picking?

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 May, 2010, 09:25:22 pm
You can apply to university and if you get in fine. However, after you get your degree you have a choice: pay for your degree yourself and you're free to go into the private sector; go into the public sector for three years after it and the state pays for it. You can put off the inevitable with higher degrees. If you're good and industry snaps you up then, maybe they'll pay off the degree for you... Undoubtedly there will be all the negative consequences I haven't thought of.

I'm practically a Trot, but even I can see how that plan would stifle enterprise. Also, I think it's very easy to over-estimate the public sector's demand for high achieving graduates in non-technical occupations. There's a lot of Continuous Professional Development for school leavers to work their way up in government jobs, whereas it's seen as an affront to common sense when a graduate expects on-the-job training because they don't already know the ins and outs of an organization they're completely new to.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 May, 2010, 09:27:01 pm
You can apply to university and if you get in fine. However, after you get your degree you have a choice: pay for your degree yourself and you're free to go into the private sector; go into the public sector for three years after it and the state pays for it. You can put off the inevitable with higher degrees. If you're good and industry snaps you up then, maybe they'll pay off the degree for you... Undoubtedly there will be all the negative consequences I haven't thought of.

When it comes to free market economics I'm practically a Trot, but even I can see how that plan would stifle enterprise. Also, I think it's very easy to over-estimate the public sector's demand for high achieving graduates in non-technical occupations. There's a lot of Continuous Professional Development for school leavers to work their way up in government jobs, whereas it's seen as an affront to common sense when a graduate expects on-the-job training because they don't already know the ins and outs of an organization they're completely new to.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 12 May, 2010, 09:46:34 pm
I'm practically a Trot, but even I can see how that plan would stifle enterprise. Also, I think it's very easy to over-estimate the public sector's demand for high achieving graduates in non-technical occupations. There's a lot of Continuous Professional Development for school leavers to work their way up in government jobs, whereas it's seen as an affront to common sense when a graduate expects on-the-job training because they don't already know the ins and outs of an organization they're completely new to.

That's fine - I certainly didn't expect to be able chuck a lot of stuff onto the screen and have it work perfectly. But you get the broad principles, I'm sure. Now, how do we make it work?

Broadly speaking, we have too many people going to university, a number of whom are just there to avoid work or get drunk - we need to trim the fat. If we introduce this concept of National Service, some people will try to delay it by going to university, but we don't want them thinking they're going to get out of making some sort of practical contribution to society. I'm trying to avoid a situation where some only go to university and some only do a National Service - I want to avoid an us-and-them situation developing, and create a common work and service ethic.

Seriously, ideas? I'm genuinely trying to do something practical, even if only as a mental exercise for us here.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 12 May, 2010, 10:03:23 pm
I'm trying to avoid a situation where some only go to university and some only do a National Service

What you'd do is make university and national service totally independent of one another. You'd still have to do the same as everybody else, but it would be negotiable whether you did it before or after university. It could be a great social leveller. Especially if it slowed down the career progression of toffs whose connections get them a top gig with a newspaper, a merchant bank or the civil service straight out of university.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 May, 2010, 01:04:11 am
Can you explain with a bit more detail ?

No. If you genuinely feel that the tabloids haven't gained any footing at all in this election and all is the same as before then my only words are HURRAY IGNORANCE! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/may/10/general-election-power-of-press)

I will accept that certain sections of the media were more shrill in their support of Cameron but thats all you are going to get from me but i am pretty certain that if those same papers had supported Brown instead then you wouldnt have been whining about it especially if Labour won.

Unless of course you are pissed off that they didnt bother to support Nick Clegg then i can kind of see how that influenced the LibDem vote.However if they had really got behind Clegg then that may have influenced the vote and if you had a LibDem win then again i dont think you would have complained.

Its the fact that your point and complaints about the media spin are not impartial that is the weakness in your argument here.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 13 May, 2010, 08:43:00 am
I'm trying to avoid a situation where some only go to university and some only do a National Service

What you'd do is make university and national service totally independent of one another. You'd still have to do the same as everybody else, but it would be negotiable whether you did it before or after university. It could be a great social leveller. Especially if it slowed down the career progression of toffs whose connections get them a top gig with a newspaper, a merchant bank or the civil service straight out of university.

I'd thought about that approach, but there's a risk with having a break between school and university, or a break between university and degree-relevant career, that you lose skills and knowledge. In science or technology-based degrees or jobs, I think that's significant.

I wouldn't want university to be seen as a way to get out of Public Service (perhaps a better term than National Service?), though. Your approach may be better, but possibly creates some other issues.

To be honest, through, I think there are bigger problems in terms of finding a place in the public sector for every school leaver. That'll be the real challenge here.


Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 May, 2010, 02:20:30 am
Here we go again just as i predicted :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8684162.stm

Baby faced sellout POS Trash meets ugly Globalist Harridan to discuss the next 5 years of the UKs foreign policy being dictated to by the CFR and the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg.

I mean William fucking Hague.

Just another Poodle.

 >:(

Heres to the next 5 years !!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Doctor Alt 8 on 15 May, 2010, 02:37:14 am
For sale: One unwanted PM
John Major's Spitting Image puppet

John Major’s Spitting Image puppet is to go under the hammer next month.

Auctioneers Bonhams expect the all-grey model to fetch £3,500 as part of a double lot with his wife Norma.

It is not the first former Prime Ministerial puppet to be sold. Tony and Cherie Blair's puppets recently fetched £12,600, while Baroness Thatcher went for £5,040. Gordon Brown got just £4,800 in 2007.

Stephanie Connell of Bonhams said: ‘These items are a great piece of British television and political memorabilia and the popularity of Spitting Image puppets continues - they are much loved by politicians and the public alike.’
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Banners on 20 May, 2010, 09:43:23 am
Is it just me, or does anyone else think Theresa May is quite sexy?

M@
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 20 May, 2010, 09:59:22 am
Is it just me, or does anyone else think Theresa May is quite sexy?

M@

It might be the other Theresa May you're thinking of..?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: uncle fester on 20 May, 2010, 10:06:28 am
I hope it's the other one he's thinking of...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 20 May, 2010, 01:11:18 pm
So, the government is looking to use some of the license fee to pay for high speed broadband being rolled out into rural areas.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 20 May, 2010, 01:24:13 pm
Well, I guess most of you know what I think.

If the government created its own money instead of letting the banks do it at interest, we could afford to give everyone free broadband for life.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 20 May, 2010, 01:31:38 pm
Is it just me or did Theresa suddenly get real old, real fast?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 20 May, 2010, 03:35:34 pm
So, the government is looking to use some of the license fee to pay for high speed broadband being rolled out into rural areas.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this...

While i dont begrudge the idea too much in principle its curious because this is part of an ongoing trend that i am see a lot of now where public funds like licence fee revenues and tax revenue is increasingly being used to fund the private sector.

Why is it ?? that the private sector I.E ISPs cannot fund this rollout of high speed broadband connection to rural areas themselves ??

Am i missing something here ?

Why is it if there is talk of cuts in the services that the BBC offers then why is the licence fee revenue which is in itself a pretty constant source of revenue being used for this purpose ?

BTW i heard somewhere that 6Music is not going to be axed after all.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 20 May, 2010, 04:58:19 pm
I say FUCK those country folk, always slagging off us townies, they can stick with bloody dial up  >:(
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 20 May, 2010, 05:10:06 pm
Since when is this part of the remit of the BBC anyway ?

Having said that it must be because of the BBCIPlayer service not being available without high speed broadband but it doesnt justify the expense of providing the infrastructure for it unless it remains the property of the BBC which means its the property of every licence fee payer so does the BBC itself become an ISP ?

The Govt/BBC will probably just turn the whole thing over to the private sector anyway.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 20 May, 2010, 05:12:52 pm
It's just like public transport, which seems to be all run by private companies, yet loads of public cash is splashed out to help them out  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 20 May, 2010, 08:04:38 pm
If you want decent Iplayer go for the new Virgin HD box (cisco). It's not that bad really.
If you upgrade you current Digi and keep that one on your account for another room it is free, beats paying a flat £49 for one

(http://www.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/televisions/vbox_hd.jpg)







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 20 May, 2010, 11:51:24 pm
Well, I guess most of you know what I think.

If the government created its own money instead of letting the banks do it at interest, we could afford to give everyone free broadband for life.

Its good news what is going on in Greece lately.I am not saying that rioting and the destruction of property that is an inevitable consequence of rioting is a good thing but they should keep it up and tell their govt and the Goldman Sucks criminals and all the rest of them to go fuck themselves and tell them that they will just have to eat their losses that they were responsible for.It will collapse the Euro as well and after a period of re-adjustment life will improve.

They should also just leave the Eurozone ASAP and repudiate their debts and start all over again with a clean slate.

What makes gangsterBanksters think that they have the right to have a risk free business/investment enviroment when no one else does ?

Why cant they accept a certain amount of loss themselves and impose cutbacks on themselves ?

I say risk free because the taxpayer refunds them for their losses.

What you ask for will happen eventually anyway as its just a case of when.

Like someone else said in a comment i read earlier you cant expect to fix the problem if you are using the same logic that created and perpetuates the problem and the cause of the problem in the first place which is what these idiot politicians and Banksters will never understand unless they dont want to if you see what i mean.


There needs to be more of this sort of thing and lots of it and the people always have the upper hand ultimately if they choose to exercise it.

Their days are numbered.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 22 May, 2010, 06:50:14 pm

I thought that this might be of interest :

New UK govt to curb CCTV, scrap ID cards, help open source:


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/05/new-uk-govt-to-curb-cctv-scrap-id-cards-help-open-source.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Robin Low on 23 May, 2010, 09:21:00 am
Glad to see the back of the essentially pointless ID cards, but I have less of a problem with CCTV. I don't actually find it at all intrusive, but its value was brought home to me a few years ago when a serial rapist was caught because it was noticed that the same car kept appearing in the areas around where that attacks took place. The rapist had been using his girlfriend's car, so once the police had the car linked to the areas and times they just followed the trail.

Also, it can help alert police, fire and ambulance services to problems before a 999 call is made, if such a call is made at all.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 23 May, 2010, 01:39:35 pm
I used to know a security guard who worked alone at nights in a small security office serving a large factory. He had remote control of about four CCTV cameras and would delight in showing me how two of them could be used to peer into the bedroom windows of neighbouring domestic houses.

I agree that CCTV is indeed a useful tool but, like all tools, it can be misused. It is the practice of misuse that needs to be protected against, not use of the technology itself. The same could be said of ID cards, they could play a very useful role in emergency situations such as medical crises, for example, but take them too far and you get checkpoints, restricted travel and an erosion of privacy.

Of course, this is a simple observation and can be applied to any tool. A screwdriver is an extremely useful thing, but in the wrong circumstances can easily kill. Money, too, is a tool (and how many of you just knew I was going to bring it up?) and, when misused, causes untold misery, deprivation and death. Money is like water, we all need it and we all need to keep the supply flowing according to the immediate needs of society. Returning control of that flow to the hands of our elected officials at the Treasury would drastically reduce the opportunities for misuse.

When a technology such as CCTV first appears, it takes some time for it to integrate into society. Infrastructure, legislation, operation and public attitude all take time to adjust. Experiences from all sides are examined, debated and acted upon and eventually - if we're lucky - enough compromises are reached for CCTV to become just another thing we have. That's what I love about this country - we're always arguing, but that's a good thing. Arguments open the mind to new possibilities and highlight obvious, and not so obvious, truths and lies that eventually lead us to a better understanding and informed decisions. This works on all levels of society from the family group to the workplace to government, everybody is working towards what they believe to be "good." Admittedly, this is also one of our biggest weaknesses - we don't all believe the same things are good.

Still, those security cameras I mentioned at the start, there was an argument over those. One of the neighbours of the factory noticed that a camera was looking into private bedrooms and, for a while, things got very nasty. In the end, shields were fitted to the offending cameras, limiting their field of view only to the factory. The guard kept his job, but it was a damn close run thing.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 23 May, 2010, 07:11:59 pm
I currently work in an office where there is CCTV everywhere for security reasons. So long as it's used only for security purposes I don't mind; anything else speaks of low levels of trust.

I have in the past worked for a retail outlet and a charity where CCTV was used to spy on employees and monitor how they work, which I found very intrusive. Working in a record shop I was called to the manager's office and told I had spent too long advising one customer, although it was legitimate for the manager to waste time snooping on staff instead of coming onto the shop floor and helping out during a busy period.

When I worked in a residential hostel, the manager there trawled through a whole week's worth of CCTV footage to check that hourly security patrols were being conducted, because he was trying to get something on me. What he found was that I was the only member of staff who had done their share of patrols and everyone else was slacking. No action was taken against the others who weren't pulling their weight because he was pally with all of them. You don't spy on your staff unless you have a suspicion of serious wrongdoing or you have warned them that you are going to be checking up on whether they're doing the job properly or not. You don't just set a trap on a whim and see if they fall into it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 23 May, 2010, 11:09:06 pm
On the subject of CCTV. When I was stationed (censored due to the official secrets act).

oh how we all laughed.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 24 May, 2010, 04:14:13 pm
I dont like the idea of being constantly under surveillance but at the same time i am totally oblivious to CCTV cameras in actuality so in that sense i dont find them intrusive simply because i ignore them.

Of course, this is a simple observation and can be applied to any tool. A screwdriver is an extremely useful thing, but in the wrong circumstances can easily kill. Money, too, is a tool (and how many of you just knew I was going to bring it up?) and, when misused, causes untold misery, deprivation and death. Money is like water, we all need it and we all need to keep the supply flowing according to the immediate needs of society. Returning control of that flow to the hands of our elected officials at the Treasury would drastically reduce the opportunities for misuse.



Thats very very true about misuse.Rather like power that is given to elected officials who misuse it.

Its the same thing as the saying "Money is the root of all evil"

No its not.

Its people or certain types of people who are the root of all evil.Money is just an inanimate object like a screwdriver that can be misused and its an ignorant and misguided statement.I mean you wouldnt say a screwdriver is evil despite the fact it could be used as an offensive weapon.

*

No mention in that article of scrapping the DNA database which was curious as that should either be scrapped or it should be subject to very strict guidelines and checks and balances which at present it is not.

For example why is the DNA of Babies being stored on it without the parents consent or even knowledge ?

A perfect example of misuse by the state.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 24 May, 2010, 04:33:35 pm
Its the same thing as the saying "Money is the root of all evil"

This doesn't affect your point but..... [ENGAGE PEDANT MODE] this is one of those often misquoted phrases - it should be "the pursuit of money is the root of all evil", a subtle but important difference. [DISENGAGE PEDANT MODE]
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 24 May, 2010, 05:07:58 pm
I always thought it was "love of money is at the root of all evil." Same difference, though. And, looking around, never has it been so apparent.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 24 May, 2010, 06:47:44 pm
I always thought it was "love of money is at the root of all evil." Same difference, though. And, looking around, never has it been so apparent.

DAMMIT! Nothing worse than trying to be a pedantic smartarse and then being proved wrong.  :-[

You're absolutely right:
Timothy 6:10 (King James Version):
    For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


I'll go and flog myself thoroughly.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 24 May, 2010, 06:50:28 pm
Money is great.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 24 May, 2010, 06:51:44 pm
Thus began the Great Pedant War of 2010... (Although, technically, it started much earlier. Or much later, depending on the pedant you ask.)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 24 May, 2010, 11:59:30 pm
Well, technically... it can't be a war if it starts with one of the parties involved realising that they're in the wrong.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 May, 2010, 12:22:42 am
I fight for my right to be wrong.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 28 May, 2010, 12:55:50 am
Well, I guess most of you know what I think.

If the government created its own money instead of letting the banks do it at interest, we could afford to give everyone free broadband for life.

Thats right.

All the countries in the G8 and the G20 dont have any control over their own central banks as they gave up control or ownership of them when they signed up.

Heres what someone else has to say about in reply to a question of who owns and controls the central bank of Canada:
"Actually in Canada…. up untill the 1970/80’s the Debt was held almost at zero because the people of Canada publically own the Bank of Canada, and back then , it was the only Bank responsible for the printing of new dollars….however….
A stipulation of Canada being part of the “G7″countries was, Canada would have to stop using the Publically owned Bank of Canada, and sub out the printing of Canada’s Dollars to the International Monetary Fund at interest…
60% of Canada’s paper money, is printed in Germany, by the same company who print Canadian Tire money…
The Bank of Canada still Print…. but they have to pay the IMF a steep fee for every bill they press…
Hence, When it comes to pay off the Canadian debt today, there is not enough in circulation to pay it as each dollar made adds to the debt…."

This is why whenever the G8 or G20 meet up to decide which way the economy is going to go behind closed doors they have to have very tight security and the LRAD sound weapons are wheeled out to disperse the peasents who they are bleeding dry.

Outrageous isnt it ?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 28 May, 2010, 01:33:52 am
No, it's not outrageous - it's murderous.

This is the system that keeps Africa starving, the system that creates child slave labour, the system that makes clean drinking water too expensive for Brazilians and ensures our own pensioners have the unenviable winter's choice of buying food or heat, but not both.

I have emailed politicians about this, and the few who reply simply talk about government spending, unable or unwilling to grasp the fact that it makes no difference whatsoever how a government spends its money if that money is made of debt to begin with.

I emailed the Treasury with the simple question, "can you please explain to me why my government borrows money instead of creating it?" According to the automatically generated "read receipts," my email was read by two different people, neither of whom thought it was worth responding to the legitimate questions of a concerned electorate (i.e., me).

If our governments can fix this, they will make life better for virtually everyone. If they can't fix it, they don't deserve to represent us and our interests. If they don't want to fix it, they should stand trial for accessory to fraud and, possibly, economic treason.

I know I get on peoples' nerves banging on about this, but in my view it is one of the most important problems facing humanity today, probably even more urgent than climate change. It's certainly easier to fix than climate change, all it requires is the stroke of a pen. And wouldn't we all love to be a part of the generation that abolished poverty? Wouldn't that just be so cool?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 29 May, 2010, 11:39:58 am
For what it's worth, you're not getting on my nerves. Which is, in itself, no small feat.

I don't believe that it's a case of if the world economy will collapse, but rather when. Call me a paid up member of the tinfoil hat club if you will, but I think that the policy makers know this, but that they're not worried because they know full well that when it happens, they, for the most part, will own everything that you currently own.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 29 May, 2010, 12:22:39 pm
Exactly. Hence the rumblings about a World Central Bank (privately owned, of course) that will do for the world what the Federal Reserve did for the USA: Ruin it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 29 May, 2010, 01:00:15 pm
It will be time to kick out the moneychangers/lenders out of the temple soon.

Its nothing less than overt criminality.
Exactly. Hence the rumblings about a World Central Bank (privately owned, of course) that will do for the world what the Federal Reserve did for the USA: Ruin it.

Thats what was talked about at the very recent Bilderberg[the above mentioned policy makers] meeting in Spain.

"The Bilderberg-controlled Washington Post called for making the IMF a “global overseer” on May 20. Bilderberg is exploiting the financial crisis in Greece and other EU countries to advance efforts to make the IMF a world Treasury Department under the UN."

“It may take a global agency like the IMF” to address the problem, The Post said, attributing the view to Liliana Rojas-Suarez, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development."

Article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/19/AR2009041902242.html?hpid=topnews

All of this economic situation is deliberately planned and executed to consolidate assets and power into the hands of the Anglo-Dutch banking cartel and ultimately Rothschilds using the derivatives bubble as the pretext to it amongst others.

Remember everyone if you tolerate this your children will be next.

Also if anyone dares to call me a "Tinfoil hat wearer" then i will just laugh at them and those that toss around that term of description are not only doing themselves a disservice but everyone else as well and by refusing to face facts and educate themselves about this situation they are indirectly aiding and abetting and defending these overtly criminal Cocksuckers.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 29 May, 2010, 01:12:44 pm
Damn right.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 29 May, 2010, 01:52:50 pm
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7299/ignorancep.jpg) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/ignorancep.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 29 May, 2010, 02:26:50 pm
When the uprising is near I'm sure the internet will be shut down and with it the uprising!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 06 June, 2010, 01:30:24 pm
I wonder what would have happened if Iran had attacked the Gaza aid convoy?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 June, 2010, 02:17:28 pm
Bilderberg have allegedly greenlighted airstrikes on Iran.

Also Bilderberg are allegedly scared and panicking as there is so much heat on them because they are being exposed with plenty of notable names not attending for the same reasons this year.

 :lol:

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 June, 2010, 03:42:31 pm
Those Israeli Commandos fast roped onto that ship rather slowly, if you ask me  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 06 June, 2010, 03:45:11 pm
Billy Bragg  :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WME495PWWJE
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 06 June, 2010, 03:56:12 pm
For all you out there who don't believe the truth, here it is  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw26ihYzBgo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw26ihYzBgo)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Old Tankie on 06 June, 2010, 05:55:39 pm
Awesome! What's the dates for the World Tour?!!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 06 June, 2010, 07:36:01 pm
For all you out there who don't believe the truth, here it is  ;)

I'm really glad 'the truth' comes with an ironic wink. I couldn't stomach more than 1.58 of that - partisan, ill-informed and unfunny. Urgh.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 June, 2010, 10:49:26 pm
For all you out there who don't believe the truth, here it is  ;)

I'm really glad 'the truth' comes with an ironic wink. I couldn't stomach more than 1.58 of that - partisan, ill-informed and unfunny. Urgh.

Agreed.

Absolute complete and utter Garbage.

Pathetic.

They obviously have nothing better to do than make their stupid videos.

I gave up commenting on another website about that incident because i could not stand debating the subject with others because their views amounted to nothing more than religious extremism which was coming from the Christians in the US who seem to think that its their sworn duty to defend Israel even when its completely in the wrong as they clearly were because the incident took place in International waters.

Obviously religious extremism is alright if its coming from them but not alright when its coming from Muslims.

And of course Israel will get away with this as usual and if you criticise them then its Anti-Semitism and hate speech.You might get a few words of condemnation from supine politicians but that will be about it because Israel can murder and break international law with impunity.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 06 June, 2010, 11:14:10 pm
I have deliberately not kept up to date with this story so can't comment for or against either side and am hitting this without blinkered vision.
I will only add that I thought you needed permission to enter a countries waters (but then again I don't know if the events happened inside or outside Israeli waters).
If it was international waters then the UN need to step in now.
If not then the Israelies have every right to defend their waters. Whether the threat is real or not. I know I am going to be lambasted for this but just imagine a convoy of ships were heading for the UK and was declined permission would the government just let them in or send in the navy to intercept.

I will not say another word on this.






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 June, 2010, 10:19:29 am
Quote
Bilderberg have allegedly greenlighted airstrikes on Iran.

I don't even know where to start with this...

Ummm- evidence?
Also, why would an industrialists drinking club be bothered about such things?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 01:06:04 pm
I think that "industrialists' drinking club" makes it all sound very cosy. A brief glance at Bilderberg attendees makes interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants) and http://www.somethingmustbreak.net/id147.html (http://www.somethingmustbreak.net/id147.html)

Now, it may be nothing more sinister than a load of powerful people getting together for cocktails and nibbles, but with so many of our own elected representatives attending, including the last three prime ministers, isn't it reasonable to ask just what they're doing? Especially, I would suggest, if any of these people are attending on tax payers money or whilst in power. (When George Osborne, now the Chancellor, went last year he registered it in the parliamentary register of members’ interests*.)

Given the average politician's attitudes towards power and wealth, is it entirely reasonable that putting them in the same room as the world's most powerful bankers and corporatists will never lead to backroom deals and arrangements? After all, each of us knows how trustworthy politicians and businessmen are, don't we?

And, let's throw the spurious "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument at them that they throw at us in defence of intrusive "security" measures. Why not let the press in?


*http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7804197/The-Bilderberg-Group-fact-and-fantasy.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7804197/The-Bilderberg-Group-fact-and-fantasy.html)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 June, 2010, 01:12:09 pm
Quote
Now, it may be nothing more sinister than a load of powerful people getting together for cocktails and nibbles, but with so many of our own elected representatives attending, including the last three prime ministers, isn't it reasonable to ask just what they're doing?

Indeed.
Whcih is still a world away from
Quote
Bilderberg have allegedly greenlighted airstrikes on Iran.

My opinion: I think we give these groups too much in being paranoid about them. Governments are simplily not competent enough, and are to large to run any kind of worldwide Illuminati type deal.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 01:38:47 pm
Governments are simplily not competent enough, and are to large to run any kind of worldwide Illuminati type deal.

Well they're doing a pretty good job on global warming, which is far more likely to be a result of the sun's magnetic field periodically letting in fewer or more cosmic ray particles as it progresses through its natural cycle than man made carbon dioxide. You can't tax sunlight, but you can tax emissions. (Nb, there's nothing wrong with cutting out pollutants, but carbon dioxide is vital - more carbon dioxide = more plants = greater crop yields, for example. Carbon dioxide makes up 0.038% of Earth's atmosphere, with man-made Co2 accounting for less than half of 1% of that figure. By far the biggest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water vapour.)

They're also doing a pretty good job of ignoring the vast benefits of social money (debt free money created by governments as opposed to debt-based money created by banks) as well. I won't bang on about this subject any more here as you all know how important I think it is to address this.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that a small group of people is controlling the entire world and everything that goes on in it, but I do buy a scenario where the same small group of people enjoy far too much influence over global policy for personal financial and political gain. One might say "it was ever thus," but that doesn't mean it's a state of affairs that should continue or even remain uninvestigated. If there's a 5% chance that this small group of people are fleecing the rest of us every chance they get, shouldn't it be investigated? If there was a 5% chance that the police thought any of us might be up to similar things on a smaller scale (bribing, bullying or making secret deals with local, community level parish or town councils), we'd be investigated in a shot.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 June, 2010, 01:48:46 pm
Quote
Well they're doing a pretty good job on global warming, which is far more likely to be a result of the sun's magnetic field periodically letting in fewer or more cosmic ray particles as it progresses through its natural cycle than man made carbon dioxide.

Okay, at with this breathtaking statement, I shall withdraw from the conversation.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 02:02:36 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1542332/Cosmic-rays-blamed-for-global-warming.html
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 07 June, 2010, 02:07:39 pm
For all you out there who don't believe the truth, here it is  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw26ihYzBgo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw26ihYzBgo)
Vile and offensive. They murder aid workers and then put a "funny" spoof on you tube. Ha fucking ha. Maybe you'd find a joke song about dead squaddies in afghanistan equally amusing, as long as it was posted with a wink?

And Vzzbux, the boats did not enter israeli waters. The israelis have unilaterally imposed an illegal 25 mile blockade around the Gaza coast, but this attack took place well outside even that.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1542332/Cosmic-rays-blamed-for-global-warming.html
Oh it's in a book published by a scientist. Must be true then. Shame how almost all the other scientists in the field disagree. Science isn't a democracy, but when the vast majority of experts (of which none of us are) agree on somethimg, I'm inclined to take their word for it, until someone actually comes up with some proof.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 June, 2010, 02:17:21 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1542332/Cosmic-rays-blamed-for-global-warming.html

You're quoting an article in the Telegraph as evidence?
An article where a scientest- an expert in the field- says:
Quote
Giles Harrison, a cloud specialist at Reading University said that he had carried out research on cosmic rays and their effect on clouds, but believed the impact on climate is much smaller than Mr Svensmark claims.

Mr Harrison said: "I have been looking at cloud data going back 50 years over the UK and found there was a small relationship with cosmic rays. It looks like it creates some additional variability in a natural climate system but this is small."

http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/nope-cosmic-rays-still-not-driving-global-warming-continued/
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 02:48:42 pm
The point is, nobody understands what's really going on. Yes, it makes sense to act on what we know, but we need to expand what we know so we do the right thing and not just the profitable thing.

Just about the biggest thing in the solar system is the sun's magnetic field, which acts much like the Earth's magnetic field in keeping cosmic radiation at bay. This field fluctuates over time, letting in more or fewer cosmic rays as it does so. There is some evidence to show that other planets in the solar system are warming, too. Anyway, if you want to investigate this further, there's a Channel 4 documentary called "The Great Global Warming Swindle" that presents the non-anthropogenic side of the argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TqqWJugXzs&fmt=18

As for me, I simply don't know who's right, or indeed if anyone is. I just think that any reasonable possibilities must be investigated, and as the Sun is the hottest thing in the vicinity, to rule it out is folly.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 June, 2010, 02:56:42 pm
Quote
Bilderberg have allegedly greenlighted airstrikes on Iran.

I don't even know where to start with this...

Ummm- evidence?
Also, why would an industrialists drinking club be bothered about such things?

I dont know where to start either since its such a big subject.

The same goes for Israel but its well worth pointing out that not every Israeli supports that kind of action by any means as there were mass peace protests inside Israel by Israelis but you dont dont get to hear about it because mainstream media censors it completely.The same goes for the Israelis or Jews/Orthodox Jews who do not supoort the actions of the Israeli govt in regard to the Palestinians.

*

The CO2 tax scam is dead in the water.Almost...........

Back to Bilderberg:

They operate under Chatham House rules but for the first time this year the mainstream media in the UK are covering them including The Guardian [Charlie Skelton] amongst others instead of the usual media blackout and denial of their existence.I have been talking about them for years and i have looked into them so if anyone says i am paranoid or any of that kind of nonsense it matters not because i know i am right.

They are one of the main architects of Global Governance but they are beginning to realise that its a non starter because too many people like myself are onto them


Whcih is still a world away from
Quote
Bilderberg have allegedly greenlighted airstrikes on Iran.

My opinion: I think we give these groups too much in being paranoid about them. Governments are simplily not competent enough, and are to large to run any kind of worldwide Illuminati type deal.

The information about airstrikes on Iran being greenlighted was the result of investigations by Jim Tucker who has been investigating their activities for 30 years +.The information was leaked to Jim Tucker who was in attendence of it this years event who has very credible and reliable sources.Its basically intelligence gathering and any intelligence is only good as its source but you appreciate that its the nature of intelligence to not have absolute 100 percent concrete evidence to back it up.

Your second comment : "My opinion: I think we etc etc....."

That believe it or not IS correct and is about the strength of it but i do disagree with you about the paranoia aspect because you can never be paarnoid or curious enough regarding their activities and when a subject stops being a Conspiracy Theory and becomes Conspiracy Fact then paranoia becomes reduntant.

The NWO/Global Governance project is dead on arrival and is a non starter as it simply cannot be done.Beraucracy on that kind of scale is never going to work because its fraught with difficulties and there are far too many variables.Look at what has happened with Greece which is throwing the whole EU/Euro project into complete dissaray.They are incapable of exercising control to that extent.When its game over for Bilderberg the dark suited corrupt control freaks will scatter and go into hiding.Its not a case of IF but WHEN.

The other main obstacle is that the Globalists/Bilderbergers/Trilateralists etc are actually in serious trouble because there is so much heat on them and awareness within the public at large of their activiities that they simply do not know what to do about it.They admit this themselves and very recently Zbiginiew Brerzinski who is THE top political advisor/Strategist of the Trilateral Commission said in a speech to a selection of Globalists at a Trilateral Commission conference in Ireland a month ago said : "For the first time in history we have a world population that is politically aware"

Too right.

 :lol:

That will do for now.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 07 June, 2010, 03:03:57 pm
The point is, nobody understands what's really going on. Yes, it makes sense to act on what we know, but we need to expand what we know so we do the right thing and not just the profitable thing.

Hmm. 'The profitable thing' is not to go dampening people's consumption of fuel, automobiles, air conditioning and consumer goods through environmental taxes. If it were, George W. Bush would have been all for it instead of trying to block carbondioxide reduction targets at every turn. For years the 'do nothing' approach has been advocated by business interests that would be harmed by people buying, using and wasting less. Whatever motives there are for tackling global warming, profitability isn't right there at the top of the list (and by 'tackling' I of course mean using a sieve to bail out a leaking boat).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 June, 2010, 03:07:24 pm
Quote
Anyway, if you want to investigate this further, there's a Channel 4 documentary called "The Great Global Warming Swindle" that presents the non-anthropogenic side of the argument:

Now I know you must be taking the piss! No one could seriously be still quoting this programme as evidence!

http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.html
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 03:21:13 pm
Carbon tax. Very profitable.

Nobody mentioned evidence, just the "non-anthropogenic side of the argument."

The "truth," I'd venture to suggest, is probably rather more complicated than either side yet understands. Both camps tend towards zealotry in their arguments, which is not very scientific but very, very human. If you tried to pin me down, I'd lean towards the non-anthropogenic camp but with the belief that it's probably just as well that we stop pumping dangerous pollutants into the environment just as a matter of respect for the planet and its inhabitants.

On the plus side, nobody's arguing against the desirability of debt-free money any more, so I must be winning that one!

I love this thread!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 07 June, 2010, 03:25:16 pm
Carbon tax. Very profitable.

This is usually the bit where the safety curtain comes down and the stage manager comes out front and anxiously asks the audience "is there an economist in the house?"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 June, 2010, 03:25:53 pm
I am staying out of the debate about Climate Change because i will just repeat what i have said before but what i will say is the subject should NEVER have been hijacked by political/business/financial/social engineering interests in the first place.

If those factors were ruled out of the equation right from the start and there was clear and open and unbiased scientific debate and research on the subject we would already be a LOT closer to the solution/s than we are now because we are really no nearer to finding solutions than we were 10years ago when there was NO action and NO debate on the subject.

Whats more its the same interests that are trying to reduce atmospheric CO2 while at the same time dumping unknown quantities of Aluminium and Barium and god knows what else into the atmosphere on a daily basis as part of a Geo-Engineering project which has been disclosed as a way of controlling climate change.It really makes sense to exasapate what might well be a natural phenomena by conducting experiments with the atmosphere with unknown consequences.

Yes that really makes sense.

Anyway it should be prefectly obvious to anyone that politicians and big business are not capable of solving enviromental problems as is clearly evidenced by the Gulf Of Mexico oil leak debacle.

What is it now 40 + days + with no stoppage and NO solutions except for BP releasing 1 million gallons + of the Neurotoxin Pesticide/Dispersant Corexit into the sea with unknown consequences beyond certain death for the immediate ecosystem.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Old Tankie on 07 June, 2010, 03:41:12 pm
Why don't the Aid charities take their aid into Gaza through the Egyptian crossing points at Kerem Shalom and Rafah?  Oh! silly me!  Of course........the Egyptians have closed these crossing points.  Funny how this action doesn't seem to make the headlines!!  I wonder why?!!!  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 June, 2010, 03:42:44 pm
Vile and offensive. They murder aid workers and then put a "funny" spoof on you tube. Ha fucking ha. Maybe you'd find a joke song about dead squaddies in afghanistan equally amusing, as long as it was posted with a wink?

I would laugh at a funny spoof and crap song about dead squaddies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Falklands, Northern Ireland, in fact anywhere.
Most squaddies would be the same, in fact we love anti war songs and films as well.
I find it very strange that the footage that you watched of 'peace activitsts' attacking a boarding party with metal bars, knives and sidearms is overlooked as you believe that the 'peace activists' did nothing wrong.

At a guess, I am probably the only forum member who was part of a Maritime Counter terrorism unit who has actually boarded ships and oil rigs. So because of this I probably know what type of mission objectives were issued. At an informed guess, I would say they were on a mission to just board the ship and search it for banned items (I hope you will agree with that DDD).
Now when doing this, all personnel will be heavily armed as they are the 'military' and you have to be ready for a contact situation, if the situation arises.

Obviously when I went onto a ship a few extra things happened before the teams fastroped onto the target. The Israeli commandos did not do any of these, as the situation did not warrant it. Once on it seems (as I am looking at the footage, I don't know what footage you have seen but it's obviously different) as if a certain amount of 'peace activists' decided to try and kill the commandos by using the weapons mentioned earlier.
Now this is when the mission objective would change, the commandos would try to secure a safe RV area and defend it until more troops arrive or the situation was under control, whichever came first.
Let me tell all you peace lovers out there, what would you do if a group of 'peace activists' came at you with weapons and tried to kill you by throwing you over the side of the ship. I bet you wouldn't have let them batter you to death as is the pack mentality, which is what I saw on those videos.
A double tap to the closest threat might stop the rest continuing their attack, who knows. All this aiming to wound in a hot zone is a load of old bollocks by the way!

It's strange how the next ship just let the commandos on board and let the search go ahead. Perhaps there were no activists on board.

Now I know there are two sides to every story, something which many people seem to 'always' forget but I would not take the word of any 'peace activist' from that ship as, let me think, what are they bound to say. At the moment I will go with the video footage that my eyes have seen.
As for collecting mobiles and camera's and such items, I presume this might be because the footage would show the commandos running amok and killing people willy nilly. It would have nothing to do with SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures).

Do you honestly think that the commandos mission was to board that ship and kill people, if you do think that then god help us all. Next you'll be saying that New Labour did an excellent job in government, leaving the country facing economic ruin.

By the way here's a wink for you  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 07 June, 2010, 03:52:41 pm


On the plus side, nobody's arguing against the desirability of debt-free money any more, so I must be winning that one!

Maybe, just maybe, this might have something to do with the fact that THIS IS A FUCKING COMICS WEBSITE AND NOBODY GIVES A SHIT.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 03:56:27 pm
Well said, CF.

It's easy to forget, as I sit here airing my views, that these issues affect real people, spill real blood and cost real lives. To me, talking about Gaza or global warming or globalization is simply a diverting intellectual exercise - but to many these are matters of life and death.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 June, 2010, 04:02:09 pm


On the plus side, nobody's arguing against the desirability of debt-free money any more, so I must be winning that one!

Maybe, just maybe, this might have something to do with the fact that THIS IS A FUCKING COMICS WEBSITE AND NOBODY GIVES A SHIT.

STFU !

Its a political thread so if you dont like it then dont fucking read it !

"Nobody gives a shit !"

I give a shit and so do many others as you dont know who is reading or who is actually interested beyond the comments that have been posted on it and anyway it doesnt matter what you think because you are just some 20 something kid still living at home with his MOM and stacking shelves in a supermarket or wherever it is that you work if you actually have a job so sit down and STFU and fuck off if you dont like it and dont piss me off/.

What do you ever contribute of interest to anyone ?? apart from inane juvenile comments about your MOM or otherwise deliberately childishly offensive comments ?

Also your use of massively oversized caps is highly ignorant and discurteous.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 07 June, 2010, 04:15:59 pm
Apologies if I have upset anyone, but I really think this thread is somewhat of a font of negative vibes and spurious reasoning.

As a guess, I might wonder that absolutely no-one has had their minds changed about anything as a consequence of all our witterings.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 June, 2010, 04:17:51 pm
Don't you believe it Roger, I'm gonna make DDD a war mongering hard assed killer if it takes me all day!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 June, 2010, 04:23:01 pm
He's viewing the thread as I type!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 07 June, 2010, 04:26:03 pm
I won't be impressed unless you cyborgize him and make him fire flaming dildos out of his head at Railgun speeds.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 07 June, 2010, 04:39:27 pm
apart from inane juvenile comments about your MOM or otherwise deliberately childishly offensive comments ?

That's about the measure of our very own Godders. And long may it continue!

I feel I must point out that even though the climate word has been mentioned, I'm saying nothing.

M

 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 07 June, 2010, 04:44:20 pm
I think we're all doing rather well - 52 pages on politics and the forum isn't on fire yet.

Now to go and make The Religion Thread...  :o
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Nap Normal on 07 June, 2010, 04:46:06 pm
All I know is I'm fed giving money to these evil, corrupt and incompetent regimes. Labour, Tory party or New Labour they are all the same.
As for the planet and it's well being. My personal believe is...
I think humanity is a cancer on this planet. We have taken the most beautiful world in the solar system and turned it into a living hell. A place filled with greed, corruption, selfishness and hate.I no longer feel free I'm living in a prison with out walls.
Jay
P.s Guess who got his phone bill and a parking ticket this morning? :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 07 June, 2010, 04:50:16 pm
I think we're all doing rather well - 52 pages on politics and the forum isn't on fire yet.

Now to go and make The Religion Thread...  :o

There already is one in the vaults somewhere but that was locked away for good reason.






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Proudhuff on 07 June, 2010, 05:01:10 pm
Taking on board :D everything CF says, but surely armed men boarding a ship in international water is Piracy? or does that just apply to Somalians?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 June, 2010, 05:09:47 pm
Apologies if I have upset anyone, but I really think this thread is somewhat of a font of negative vibes and spurious reasoning.

As a guess, I might wonder that absolutely no-one has had their minds changed about anything as a consequence of all our witterings.

In that case i will apologise as well but i wasnt upset but i was annoyed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 June, 2010, 05:19:14 pm
Taking on board :D everything CF says, but surely armed men boarding a ship in international water is Piracy? or does that just apply to Somalians?

I'm with you on that point Proudhuff, I'm sure that the world will stand proud against them, or not!
I suppose they'll come up with a reason that will satisfy themselves and the US. They will say that they have a legitimate reason to intercept a ship heading straight for their territorial waters, or something like that. They could show sat tracking, speeds, directions, radio messages to prove that the ship was heading towards them, which we all knew anyway.

I feel that if Turkey escort the next ship into Israeli waters then things will escalate horribly, as I don't rate anyones capabilities in that area against Israel. As they have proven many a time, especially as they have the equipment and skills to take on all their neighbours.

Things will only become a lot worse for the innocent in the end as they always do, sadly.

P.S. Why didn't the Labour Government do more about the passport incident with Israel!!!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 07 June, 2010, 05:31:43 pm
I won't be impressed unless you cyborgize him and make him fire flaming dildos out of his head at Railgun speeds.
:lol:  That's the best thing anyone's ever said about me. EVER.

CF, I'm glad you seem willing to accept that there may be a big difference between what you did with HM forces and this illegal act of piracy on Israel's part. If you wanted to stretch international law to breaking point, you could argue that the crew were merely defending themselves against pirates, but I don't think that would wash. It still remains that the occupation and the blockade are illegal under international law, and therefore they had no right to be boarding anyone.

Basically, they feel able to act with impunity (and the reason more wasn't made of the passport thing, as you say) is simple - the yanks. Just like North Korea gets to do what it likes because China backs it, Israel knows that the US will always back it. If Obama simply made it clear he would no longer veto critical resolutions in the UN, things would be a lot different. But he won't, or can't, it's domestic political suicide.

I still find that song vile though. I switched off at the line "nobody got killed"
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 07 June, 2010, 05:34:08 pm


P.S. Why didn't the Labour Government do more about the passport incident with Israel!!![/color]


because the government are petrified of the Israeli lobby.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 June, 2010, 05:45:33 pm
Turkey are not to be messed with either.

The Iranian Red Crescent are going to be sending aid ships to the Palestinians so that will be fun if the Israelis start attacking their ships in international waters because if just one of those ships are attacked then thats it.

You have to question what gives Israel the right to set up and enforce naval blockades in what is a sovereign states territory in the first place ?

Were the UK and US govt in on it all in the first place ?

Article :

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19573

I also read reports that the IDF opened fire on the aid ship from above minutes before boarding it.

What a wonderful job our elected non-representative representatives and the UN are doing regarding the Israel/Palestine problem.Themselves and the UN do absolutely NOTHING about it other than a few condemnations and lip service to this or that and then nothing.Nothing at all.

You could say that their inaction is tantamount to gross negligence and is actually encouraging by its inaction the actions of an out of control rogue state that really needs to be brought to heel by the above and by doing so they are endangering all of us if you think about the implications of an Israeli attack on Turkish or Iranian ships [WW3 although we are technically in a World War] but i think that another war is what they want.

Things are going to get out of control before anything gets better.

Its a sad indictement on the political community.
It would have nothing to do with SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures).

Do you honestly think that the commandos mission was to board that ship and kill people, if you do think that then god help us all.



I am thinking along those lines.Why shouldnt you ?

You have to think of every possible angle as a possible explanation.Was it their intent ?

Wether the intent was there or not the outcome was the exactly the same.Has the ISraeli govt condemned the actions of the IDF and stated they were not following a SOP ?

Exactly.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 June, 2010, 06:15:08 pm
I still find that song vile though. I switched off at the line "nobody got killed"

I watched it on the phone at work so there was a lot of background noise in the office but I have to agree with DDD on this. People did die on the ship, so I have to mark the song down a couple of points for this.

As for China & North Korea and the US & Israel. Wouldn't the world be a better place if every other country stood up to them and said no more.
Just imagine it, Africa, South and Latin America, Europe, Asia, etc all made a stand.

Obviously it'll never happen  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 07 June, 2010, 06:20:16 pm

As for China & North Korea and the US & Israel. Wouldn't the world be a better place if every other country stood up to them and said no more.
Just imagine it, Africa, South and Latin America, Europe, Asia, etc all made a stand.

Obviously it'll never happen  ::) [/color]

What about Britain, what side do you think they're on?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 07 June, 2010, 06:28:10 pm
As the great George Michael once sang!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3q3J-_bkOI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3q3J-_bkOI)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 07 June, 2010, 06:32:12 pm
I thhought it was going to be Club Tropicana for a second there.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 07 June, 2010, 07:01:42 pm
Club TropiGaza .

I shall stop there before i start rewriting the lyrics because its highly distasteful to make light of it especially when children are dying.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 12:27:01 pm
There is a banking system out there that doesn't deal with interest. If I had money, or a mortgage, I'd certainly look into this:  http://www.islamic-bank.com/

You don't have to be a Muslim to use this bank.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 12:52:05 pm
Here's an interesting article...

" Many people believe that the Bank of England is a privately owned corporation. Many people believe that it's owned by the Rothchilds.

Neither of these beliefs is true.

The truth is much worse..."

Continues at:  http://www.ukcolumn.org/2009/04/14/bank-of-england
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 June, 2010, 01:01:19 pm
The article lost me at the fifth paragraph with "In 1844, the Rothschild inspired desire to take complete control of Britain..."
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 01:45:24 pm
Indeed. The Rothschild family do get blamed for a lot of things. Whether they are actually behind or involved in this I frankly don't know. However, there is something fishy going on. The more I learn, the less I understand about how it all works.

Who are the Bank of England Nominees Ltd, for example? And, if the BoE is our bank, why will nobody tell us who these people are? The Bank of England either belongs to the Government (and, by extension, the people) or it doesn't. If it does belong to us, this information should be available. If it doesn't belong to us, it shouldn't control our sovereign money supply.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 June, 2010, 02:10:03 pm
Quote
"In 1998, the final piece of the puzzle fell into place. In return for fixing the 1997 elections and getting New Labour into power, the Government enacted the 1998 Bank of England Act, which gave the Bank's Court of Directors complete independence with regard to monetary policy."

1. the Bank of England's Court of Directors did not 'fix the 1997 elections'. The British public did that because they were fed up with 18 years of the Tories doing whatever the hell they pleased.

2. the point of the 1998 Bank of England Act, which gave the Bank independence, was to stop governments manipulating interest rates for political purposes, like lowering them when there's an election coming up to curry favour with the electorate.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 02:16:52 pm
1: I can't comment, because I don't know. I hope nothing was fixed, I really do.

2: That worked out nicely, didn't it? Well, it did for the banks - not so much for the rest of us.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 08 June, 2010, 02:18:09 pm
I really should do a proper course in economics. I have strong political opinions, but when it comes to interest rates, the IMF, national debts, inflation etc, I find I'm rapidly out of my depth, and I really wished I had a better grasp of the priincipal arguments.

Anyone suggest the best way to go about this - GCSE at night school? Open University? Correspondence/web based course?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 02:41:32 pm
I'm not an economist, either, so I may well be wrong in everything I say and write about it. That said, I know fish when I smell it.

One analogy that helps me understand the root of the problem is this:

Imagine that money is water. The flow of water must be kept up according to the needs of the system - everyone needs water, just like everyone needs money.

The Government, who we elect, has access to its own well. All it has to do is lower a bucket into this public well, draw a bucket of water and pour it carefully into the system (public spending). The water flows around the system and trickles back into the public well in the form of taxes, keeping the public well topped up.

The Government, however, has fallen into the bad habit of using a private well from which to draw the water. So, the Government goes to this private well, draws a bucket of water and carefully pours it into the system. Now, the water that flows out of the system in taxes is used to re-fill the bucket, which is then poured back into the private well. On top of this, an extra quarter of a bucket of water is drained from the system to pour into the private well because the owners of this private well want to be paid for using their water (interest). This means that more water is being drained from the system than is being returned to it. Thus, the parts of the system that use the most water are deprived of it and whither away and die - like Britain's manufacturing industry.

Once we persuade the Government to begin using its own well again, we can still pay off all those quarter buckets we owe whilst not drawing any more water from that private well. Once this is done, the amount drained from the system will fall dramatically, allowing everyone's taxes to fall and allowing an appropriate amount to be invested in industry, public services and society as a whole. So long as the water continues to be added to and drained from the system according to established economic principles and the needs of society, the only losers will be the owners of the private well, who have enough water of their own to begin with and don't need ours.

I thought of that analogy a couple of days ago - does it work, you think?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 08 June, 2010, 02:51:48 pm
Quote
ALL THE PEOPLE BEHIND AND INVOLED WITH THE BIDERBURG GROUP (HUMAN OR ALIEN) NEED TO BE LOCK UP , AND THE KEYS TROWN,AWAY,ITS A OUTRAGE WHAT THIS GROUP HAVE DONE, AND WHAT THEY ARE REPOSSIBLE FOR,AND WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING ,AND STILL CONTROLING,EVENTS EVEN NOW, I THINK SOON IT WILL BE SHOW TIME,THATS WHY WE CAN ALL,HAVE OUR VIEW FOR NOW ,BUT THEY HAVE SOMETHING UP THEIR SLEVES, IAM SURE,IF THE GAME WASNT UP DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD BE HAPPY ABOUT ALL THIS EXPOSER,THEY CAN AND DO OPERATE,WHAT WE SEE AND COMMENT ON i think their are,playing a waiting game,I THINK THEY HAVE NUKED THE ICELAND VOLCANEO,FOR ONE,they have the tech,TWO, KNOCK THE EARTHS AXIS, has we see with the hatti earthquack,also has we see more and more earthuaks and volcaneos,HOWS TO SAY THEY ARE NOT JUST WAITING ,FOR MILLIONS TO DIE,FROM, POISIONS, IN THE ATMOSPHERE,MILLION TO DIE,FROM STAVATION,please check out this site www.cambridge.org.liv...the ice pack is melting.GIVES US A VIEW ON HOW ,AND WHAT MAY BE IN SORE FOR EVERY COUNTRY,THE GAME ISNT OVER...ITS NOT EVEN STARTED YET...GET AHEAD OF THE REST,AGENDA 21,DEPOULATION PROGRAMME, IT ALL HAPPENING NOW IF YOU LOOK IN TO THE CURRENT EVENTS WE, ARE TALKING ABOUT HISTORY RIGHT NOW,all goverments are resposible for all the evil they enforce, THEY,ARE WINNING, UNLESS WE USE OUR MINDS TO DEFET THEM,THATS ONE THING THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER, WE ARE EACH CONNECT TO EACH OTHER WE ALL STRIVE FOR THE SAME PERPOSE,think about our world think about loveing our follow man DONT THINK ABOUT MONEY,WERE IS THE COMPASSION IN OUR WORLD ITS IN OUR HEARTS IF WE SEE IT, this is a war on ourselfs,everyone is under attact, we have to come together has one,OR ELSE THEY WIN,
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: M.I.K. on 08 June, 2010, 03:01:55 pm
Quote
TWO, KNOCK THE EARTHS AXIS, has we see with the hatti earthquack,

I thought she was very good in Carry On Doctor.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 03:09:22 pm
Hatti Earthquack and the Earth-Axis Knockers. Definitely one for Tharg!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 08 June, 2010, 03:17:38 pm
'Volcaneos' and 'earthquaks' made me snort apples through me nose.

Have you thought about setting up an 'Ask Godpelton' type thing? That would be a good start for the Icke crowd. If you add climate into it you'd be elected.

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 03:23:55 pm
Don't forget to rant about the Royal Family being shape-shifting lizards who bathe in the blood of virgins.

David Ike and his like really get on my nerves as they take serious concerns over the more shadowy aspects of government and make a mockery of them. It makes anyone who investigates real conspiracies and cover-ups easy to dismiss as a "conspiracy theorist nutcase." Conspiracy has become a dirty word, but anyone who plans something in secret, from organising a surprise birthday party to a covert military operation, is a conspirator.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 03:31:50 pm
Bank of England Court of Directors, 2010  http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/annualreport/2010/courtofdirectors2010.pdf

Not one of them elected, not one of them accountable to the public.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 08 June, 2010, 04:01:00 pm
Don't forget to rant about the Royal Family being shape-shifting lizards

And Willie Nelson. Apparently.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 June, 2010, 04:26:00 pm
Bank of England Court of Directors, 2010  http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/annualreport/2010/courtofdirectors2010.pdf

One of them is called Charlie Bean. He sounds nice, like a character out of an animated children's TV programme.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 08 June, 2010, 04:36:14 pm
He must be... the bean counter.

(Kindly leave the stage, I know.)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 08 June, 2010, 05:13:16 pm
Bank of England Court of Directors, 2010  http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/annualreport/2010/courtofdirectors2010.pdf

Not one of them elected, not one of them accountable to the public.

They are not accountable to the public anymore than any other board of directors of any privately owned company as they are just Minions employed by Rothschilds/The Anglo-dutch banking cartel.The only difference being we probably pay their wages although that is an assumption/presumption on my part.Theres a couple of fake /Non-Heriditary peers in there who i know nothing about but Lord Adair Turner looks a bit suspect going by his credentials.There is one Trade Unionist in there as well but whats that Mark Turner doing in there who looks a bit like Mark Radcliffe ?

In what way is someone who has a professional background in the Arts qualified to sit on the board of directors of the BOE ?

Mervyn King is a well known Bilderberg attendee who therefore has a conflict of interest between the needs of the UK and Globalist interests and is another advocate of creating a Global/international central bank and financial bereaucracy.I bet they are all advocates of the above as well and i am really sure that they would all be very happy to answer all our queries and concerns about Fractional Reserve Lending and Quantative Easing and Fiat Currency etc.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 08 June, 2010, 07:00:38 pm
In what way is someone who has a professional background in the Arts qualified to sit on the board of directors of the BOE ?

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd be happy with the whole show being run by positivists and technocrats.
 :|
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 09 June, 2010, 06:39:48 pm
I emailed the Treasury with the simple question:

"Dear Sir or Madam,

Could you please explain to me why the government borrows the money that
the banks create instead of exercising its right to print its own,
debt-free money?

Thanks

Mark Howard"

Here's the reply (which came after another email wondering what happened to the first):

Dear Mr Howard,

Thank you for your email please see reply below.

Operational independence for the Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) has been a central feature of the UK's monetary policy framework, and the inflation-targeting objectives of the monetary policy framework are unchanged. The MPC continues to pursue an objective of maintaining price stability - as defined by a 2 per cent annual rise in CPI inflation. The MPC was authorised to use the Asset Purchase Facility (APF) for monetary policy purposes on 3 March. On 5 November, the MPC announced that it would purchase a further £25 billion of assets financed by the issuance of central bank reserves, bringing their scheduled total purchases to £200 billion.

Quantitative easing aims to raise inflation relative to what it would have been if quantitative easing had not been implemented. But it is being used in a deflationary environment with considerable spare capacity in the economy. The severity of the global downturn created strong deflationary pressures on the economy and consequently a real risk of deflation. CPI inflation fell from its peak of 5.2% in September 2008 to 1.1% in September 2009. The considerable margin of spare capacity in the economy will continue to put downward pressure on inflation over the medium-term.

The decisions of the MPC continue to be guided by the medium-term outlook for inflation, and its remit to target CPI inflation at 2%. The use of the APF for monetary policy purposes demonstrates its commitment to the inflation target. Private sector inflation expectations remain anchored around the 2% inflation target. As growth returns and the outlook for inflation picks up, the MPC will make the necessary adjustments to monetary policy to keep inflation under control. Consequently, quantitative easing will not result in high inflation.

Asset purchases financed by central bank reserves expand the monetary base, and allow the MPC to ease monetary conditions further by raising the quantity of money in circulation, at a time when it has not been feasible to reduce further the price of money. The MPC cut Bank Rate to 0.5 per cent in March and decided that further policy action was needed to counter the risk of deflation. The aim of quantitative easing is to get the annual rate of growth of nominal spending in the economy back to near the 5 per cent that it averaged during the first decade of the MPC's existence, and which is consistent with inflation at target and growth at trend. The MPC is concerned with the growth of nominal spending because it is a primary determinant of inflation in the medium term.

The Bank of England is not buying gilts from the Government and is not creating money to finance the Government's deficit. For governments to print money to finance their borrowing would be in contravention of Article 104(1) of the Maastricht Treaty. The Bank of England is purchasing gilts on the secondary market from private-sector holders of those assets. Central banks routinely buy and sell government debt in the secondary market as part of their normal operations in the money markets, and such operations are not deemed to amount to monetary financing under the Maastricht Treaty. Quantitative easing differs from these normal operations only in their scale and the length of time for which the assets are likely to be held. The MPC decides on the level of asset purchases to finance through the issuance of central bank reserves. Its decision is informed by its assessment of the scale of asset purchases needed to meet the inflation target, and not by the need to finance the government's deficit. The Committee's actions are being undertaken for monetary policy purposes and not for fiscal policy purposes.

I hope this is helpful.


Thank you
Enquiry Unit.



To which, I have replied:


Dear Sir or Madam,

1. I am NOT asking why the MPC exists.
2. I am not asking if it is a good idea to have an independent monetary policy.
3. I am NOT asking if it is a good idea to attempt to control inflation.
4. I am NOT asking what the causes are for and reactions are to the "global downturn".
5. I am NOT asking if you believe that the MPC is committed to their stated inflation targets.
6. I am NOT asking if governments should print money to finance their borrowing.
7. I am NOT asking if it is unusual for central banks to buy and sell government debt.

The answers you provided work from the standpoint of acceptance of government debt
as if it is a force of nature. My questions are more fundamental than any of the
answers you have provided :

1. Is the Bank of England a fully government controlled entity, is it privately
    held or is it semi-private/public? (please choose from one of these options and
    provide sources to support your answer)

2. What is the authority relation between the UK government, the Bank of England and
    the MPC? In other words : who is legally allowed to override whose decisions?
    (please provide sources to support your answer)

3. Is it or is it not true that the UK government, like many other countries, acquired
    their large debts because the central bank was privatized, issuance of money was
    delegated to the privatized central bank and interest was charged to the UK
    government on the money it borrowed from the central bank? (please provide a
    simple yes or no answer first, then feel free to elaborate and please provide
    sources to support your answer)

4. Is it or is it not true that the UK government issues government bonds to the
    central bank, in effect making tax payers the collateral for the debts incurred?
    (if your answer is "no", then please explain what IS used as collateral and
    provide sources to support your answer)

5.    Please name 10 nations that do not have a privatized central bank that issues
    debt based currency. Please name 10 nations that do not have a national debt.

6.    Do you PERSONALLY believe that it is good for a government to be forced to
    borrow debt based money from a privatized central bank? Do you personally
    believe that this is better for taxpayers than if a government would issue
    its own debt free money, NOT to finance borrowing, but to prevent debts to
    third parties and to control government spending?

7.    Do you PERSONALLY believe that treaties like the Maastricht Treaty should be
    adhered to in perpetuity, even if it is not to the benefit of the nation and
    its taxpayers?


Best,

Mark J. Howard

Wonder what'll happen next?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 09 June, 2010, 08:43:32 pm
Its difficult to comment on all of that because there is so much of it and i need longer than a 5 minute read of it and anyway it will save a long and convoluted comment.

This is worthy of comment though :

"The BOE is not buying gilts from the govt..."

The BOE couldnt buy gilts from the Govt because the Govt doesnt have any to sell because they sold it all some while back.



The Bank of England is not buying gilts from the Government and is not creating money to finance the Government's deficit. For governments to print money to finance their borrowing would be in contravention of Article 104(1) of the Maastricht Treaty.


Well you find out or learn something new every day.This is actually REALLY interesting and i mean to look into this some more but it seems going by that John Major sold out the UKs govts legal right to own and operate its own nationalised central bank by signing up to the Maastricht Treaty which as you know was the forerunner of the Lisbon Treaty.I am not absolutely clear wether or not the Lisbon Treaty supercedes the Maastricht Treaty or if it is simply an addition to the Maastricht Treaty.

Is there an equivalent article in the Lisbon Treaty ?

Obviously there is but i dont have it to hand without looking that one up.

So already we now know that a major part of the Sovereignty of the UK I.E the right of a sovereign nation to print its own currency and have control over it no longer exists as it was signed away by yet another well known Bilderberg attendee by the name of John Major.

We CANNOT have a nationalised/State owned central bank because of some treaty !!

I have been right about these treaties and all along and the destruction of the sovereignty of the UK  and these dark suited treasonous Bilderberg Lurkers that inhabit UK politics.Its nothing more than a hostile takeover by GangsterBanksters in the form of what is at present a benign collectivist/Fascist dictatorship which is not as much of an oxymoron as it sounds as its true to the definition of the terms.

I see this as indefensible and i cant see how anyone can argue that this is good for you and good for me and the UK as a whole.I cant even think of any intangible "benefits" of this arrangement because the treaty obviously allows a privately owned central bank to print money to finance the UK govts borrowing to finance its deficit and to add interest on that borrowing and charge it to the taxpayer so that the debt and the borrowing and the interest gets bigger and bigger which will obviously just perpetuate the cycle of borrowing and debt.Its just like dealing with loan sharks on a massive scale.

This is also why the EU has the legal right to impose austerity measures on countries like Greece and the only way out of this is for Greece to leave the EU collective and default/repudiate its debts.

I have very little good to say about the present EU power structure and the destruction of sovereignty and this just adds to it but one possible solution is to either leave the EU so that the UK can take back control over the issuance of its own currency via a state owned central bank and then take control of the ownership of the BOE.

The EU is just basically a massive finacial trap that is sucking every country in it dry to varying degrees and its banking system is owned and controlled by the likes of the likes of Rothschilds and the like.Its exactly the same set up as the US with the privately owned and operated Federal \Reserve and they are in the same mess we are in.

So 2 entire continents are under the control of the Anglo-Dutch offshore banking cartel.

Quote

The Bank of England is purchasing gilts on the secondary market from private-sector holders of those assets. Central banks routinely buy and sell government debt in the secondary market as part of their normal operations in the money markets, and such operations are not deemed to amount to monetary financing under the Maastricht Treaty.


You bet the UK govt is buying Gilts from private sector holders of those assets.

Now i wonder who they could be ?   ;)

Sir Evil-In De Rothschild [head of the UK branch of the Parasite family] owns HUGE amounts of UK Govt bonds because they are a very sound investment because they are a guaranteed source of revenue by which i mean the interest payable by the taxpayer and charged to the taxpayer via the govt by the Rothschild owned BOE and should the SHTF and everything collapses then Sir Evil-In can just seize the assets and infrastructure of the UK as collateral until the debts are paid off while in the meantime the interest on the debt just increases on a daily basis because it cannot be paid back because this country doesnt have the means to physically pay it all back because it doesnt produce nearly enough and there are not enough jobs to provide income and therefore tax revenue for the UK govt to service its debts to the likes of Sir Evil-In and so in not so many words we are basically FUCKED.

I could go on but i wont  :lol:

BTW the reply you posted contained only stock replies that they give out whenever questions of this type arise but as for getting a reply beyond the stock answers you were given i dont fancy your chances or mine because its more than likely you and i or anyone else would just be stonewalled or conveniently forgotten [same thing].

I am not being negative as that is just an expected outcome.

Article directly related to your questions and points raised :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kifZMQOSAa8J:moneyasdebt.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/quantitative-easing-the-boe-explains-and-i-comment/+BOE+buys+and+sells+govt+debt&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 09 June, 2010, 09:02:43 pm
Indeed, Peter. I think that the "water" analogy I posted earlier adequately and simply explains how the system really works.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 10 June, 2010, 04:54:19 pm
Don't forget to rant about the Royal Family being shape-shifting lizards who bathe in the blood of virgins.

David Ike and his like really get on my nerves as they take serious concerns over the more shadowy aspects of government and make a mockery of them. It makes anyone who investigates real conspiracies and cover-ups easy to dismiss as a "conspiracy theorist nutcase." Conspiracy has become a dirty word, but anyone who plans something in secret, from organising a surprise birthday party to a covert military operation, is a conspirator.

There was an hour and a bit long David Icke interview on Edge TV recently.The last ever in actual fact because Edge TV is closing down apparently.

Bless him as he means well but he just loses me in the end when he rambles on and on and on about changes in the vibrational frequencies and how mankind is being manpulated by alien entities who have accessed this particular dimension and are feeding off fear and negativity and that type of thing.Its all well and good but i dont have that much time for woolly NewAge type stuff and it doesnt solve the immediate problem/
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 15 June, 2010, 11:06:00 pm
How do conspiracy theories start? Here's a clue to a theory emerging at this very moment:

First, read this:  http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/miracl.htm

Then, watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eLHGblEww

Finally, Bond, report to Q Branch for your atomic wristwatch and invisible car...


(Of course, it could just be an optical illusion.)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 15 June, 2010, 11:08:28 pm
How do conspiracy theories start?

Since The Assassination of Julius Caesar, 44 BC


The Plan:

"The conspirators never met openly, but they assembled a few at a time in each others' homes. There were many discussions and proposals, as might be expected, while they investigated how and where to execute their design. Some suggested that they should make the attempt as he was going along the Sacred Way, which was one of his favorite walks. Another idea was for it to be done at the elections during which he bad to cross a bridge to appoint the magistrates in the Campus Martius; they should draw lots for some to push him from the bridge and for others to run up and kill him. A third plan was to wait for a coming gladiatorial show. The advantage of that would be that, because of the show, no suspicion would be aroused if arms were seen prepared for the attempt. But the majority opinion favored killing him while he sat in the Senate, where he would be by himself since non-Senators would not be admitted, and where the many conspirators could hide their daggers beneath their togas. This plan won the day."



See also: Night of the Long Knives, 1934 AD


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 June, 2010, 12:01:22 am
Also:

Burning of the Reichstag
Gulf of Tonkin
Operation Northwoods
9/11 (?)
The Gunpowder Plot
Small pox infected blankets given to Native Americans
Western Water Rights: Los Angeles vs. Owens Valley
Federal Reserve Act (Jekyll Island)
Operation Midnight Climax
Operation Ajax
Operation Menu
Watergate
Iran-Contra
etc, etc, etc.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 16 June, 2010, 05:02:06 pm
No mention of the Saville report here?

I reckon this says it all

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2010/6/16/1276645660616/Steve-Bell-16.05.10-001.jpg)



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 16 June, 2010, 05:21:50 pm

No mention of the Saville report here?

(http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/punting.jpg)

That's me that is  :D

I reckon our resident politicos are just going through the report now, hence the current lack of comment.

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 June, 2010, 07:50:00 pm



I reckon our resident politicos are just going through the report now, hence the current lack of comment.

M.

I know very little about the subject either the event itself or the report/inquiry and if truth be known it doesnt interest me very much.There only so many political issues i can pay attention to at any one time.


How do conspiracy theories start? Here's a clue to a theory emerging at this very moment:

First, read this:  http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/miracl.htm

Then, watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eLHGblEww

Finally, Bond, report to Q Branch for your atomic wristwatch and invisible car...


(Of course, it could just be an optical illusion.)

I am not buying that for one second.

Now watch this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMRXi9ZVaN8&feature=related


Thats one conspiracy theory debunked.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 16 June, 2010, 07:57:33 pm
No mention of the Saville report here?

I reckon this says it all

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2010/6/16/1276645660616/Steve-Bell-16.05.10-001.jpg)





Yeh it seem like Jimmy has put this report together.
That is all for now
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 June, 2010, 07:59:06 pm
Well done, Bond.

Here is your next target:

(http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/de-Rothschild-415x515.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 June, 2010, 08:06:19 pm
Well done, Bond.

Here is your next target:

(http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/de-Rothschild-415x515.jpg)

Now you are talking !

And NO its not Nicholas Parsons.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 16 June, 2010, 08:30:26 pm
He looks like the warm up act at a dodgy holiday camp.

Since I am completley ignorant of the powers that be who is this bloke? :-\
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 16 June, 2010, 08:31:12 pm
He wants you to kiss his ring!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Zarjazzer on 16 June, 2010, 08:46:05 pm
It's a twelve foot high alien lizard! just liek the Queen. those who can;t see it need to take more drugs maaahnnn
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 June, 2010, 09:02:22 pm
That's Evelin de-Rothschild, one of the men who steals all your tax money.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 16 June, 2010, 09:06:25 pm
That's Evelin de-Rothschild, one of the men who steals all your tax money.

Thanks Shark.

So thats the swine! I'm writing to my MP ! Oh, he probably owns her. Damn!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 17 June, 2010, 02:57:17 pm
That's Evelin de-Rothschild, one of the men who steals all your tax money.

Filth and a common enemy of free humanity.

The current debt crisis and liabilities that have been imposed on the people of the US by the Sir Evil-In De Rothschild owned and operated Federal Reserve amounts to approx 28 trillion USD which breaks down to approx 75,000USD per US citzen and that includes everyone including children.Obviously this debt will grow due to the interest on the debt.The Federal Reserve has been buying/investing in US Govt bonds so if the US defaults on its debt repayments then the Federal Reserve can effectively sieze assets and infrastructure as collateral to withhold until the debts are repaid which of course they wont because there is nothing to repay the massive 28 + trillion debt or deficit or whatever.

At the same time the US govt has to continue selling US Treasury /Govt bonds to keep essential and mandatory services and programmes going so the debt just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

The above individual is the one of the principle instigators of the C02 taxation scam who will collect your taxes via the IMF and do what he likes with it and invest it in god iknows what.All i know is none of it will help save the planet as the CO2/AGW scam has been well and truly exposed for what it is and that is a fraud.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 19 June, 2010, 12:35:27 pm
Indeed, Peter. I think that the "water" analogy I posted earlier adequately and simply explains how the system really works.

I thought this article might be of interest:

http://kevboyle.blogspot.com/2010/06/so-bank-of-england-is-to-take-over.html

Be sure to read the comments as there is a really interesting comment by "Anonymous" which talks about The Bank Of England [Creation Of Currency] Bill 2010-



http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-taEYP02HHIJ:www.bankofenglandact.co.uk/act/+bank+of+england+creation+of+currency+bill+2010&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a


Have you heard of this before ?


Quote from "Anonymous":


"I agree absolutely about governments having the duty to create the nation's money supply, but it's the commercial banks that have the privilege of doing so at the moment, not the Bank of England (which only issues notes and coins, a mere 3% of the money supply). All non-cash money (97% of money in circulation) is created in the form of "loans" by the high-street banks to their customers."

This comment is correct apart from where it says "which *only* issues notes and coins etc etc" which is an erroneous and misleading statement.

Yes the BOE does have an exclusive licence to print hard currency and it only creates enough physical currency to keep the cash economy flowing which is small in comparison to the cashless electronic economy but if this cashless economy was not a reality then it would be printing 100 percent of the physical cash in circulation.

The BOE hasnt lost 97 percent of its business in the meantime so for example where did the approx 1.5 trillion come from that the Govt borrowed to bailout the financial sector if the Govt didnt have a spare 1.5 trillion set aside for a rainy day ??

Where did it come from if the govt didnt just find 1.5 trillion down the back of the sofa ?

Thats right it had to borrow it from the BOE as it wasnt just created out of thin air or it was but not officially of course  :lol:

"All non-cash money ius created in the form of loans.....yadda yadda yadda....."

Its not "All non cash money" at all as i have just pointed out above as the High St banks and their lending is a totally seperate economy to the 1.5 trillion bailout as the people on MainSt dont go to the BOE for a loan on a house or car or whatever.How can someone confuse the commercial banking sector with large scale borrowing and the creation of currency by the BOE or ignore it completely ??

I dont know but i am pointing out the errors as they are major errors that need to be pointed out.

Anyway one final point in the comments section which is concise and completely correct :


"Profits are private and losses are collectively passed onto the citizens/tax payers."

Its not like we will all receive dividends the banks that were bailed out by the taxpayer and its exactly the same in the US.Politicians and the likes of Bernanke and Brown tell us what a good investment it was for the taxpayer blah blah blah but no one will see a penny of it because it is not passed on as it stays in the hands of the State so by default it stays in the hands of the Bankers which means we are buying the banks for them while they charge us interest on the loans so the assets that they take over and sieze are not costing them ANYTHING !!

They get the assets and they get the interest on the loans.

What a great system !

 ::) :lol: :-X  :crazy:  :thumbsdown:  :sick:  :ssh:  :eh:  >:(  :-\


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 19 June, 2010, 02:34:07 pm
CO2/AGW scam has been well and truly exposed for what it is and that is a fraud.

I expect it's not a surprise I'd pick that out of the pile! I'm not sure if you're referring to 'Climate Gate' or not, but for the sake of balance (if anyone's interested) here's a few links. After all, the follow up reporting was a bit skimpy.

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/04/oxburgh-report-clears-controvers.html (http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/04/oxburgh-report-clears-controvers.html)

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/387/38702.htm (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/387/38702.htm)

http://www.cce-review.org/ (http://www.cce-review.org/)

M



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 19 June, 2010, 02:37:48 pm
Great link there, Peter, thanks. Just spent an hour or so surfing around it and found some interesting stuff. Not least of which amongst my finds was the Proposed Bank of England Act 2010, which is well worth telling your local MP about. You can see what it is here:  http://www.bankofenglandact.co.uk/ (http://www.bankofenglandact.co.uk/)

The latest proposal in the ongoing attack on the world's wealth is that all these "bigger banks" need to be broken up into smaller entities and placed under the direct control of... guess who? The Company of the Bank of England, of course, with it's unelected Court of Directors in charge. Divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book.

The hour grows late indeed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 19 June, 2010, 02:45:39 pm
Actually, Mikey, the real truth is that nobody's completely sure what's driving climate change. The suspicion is that the anthropogenic hypothesis is being more extensively researched than other possibilities for financial purposes, chief of which is the carbon tax. If you've been keeping up with how the banking system works, taking more out of the system than is put in, then it becomes clear how much governments need this extra, global revenue and how invested they are in seeing this one "explanation" solidified as the root cause. If, for example, it turns out that cosmic rays are chiefly responsible for climate change, the need for a carbon tax evaporates overnight. Trillions of dollars in lost income.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Matt Timson on 19 June, 2010, 03:24:00 pm
I love this thread.  And I'm not even being sarcastic.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 19 June, 2010, 03:46:00 pm
We live under a criminal system and expecting the same criminals and robber barons and corporations to be the solution to the planets enviromental/energy problems is just plain *idiotic*.

Carbon credits ?

Al Gore/Ken Lay/David De Rothschild/Bill Gates who wants to reduce Human C02 output to ZERO ??  :lol: :lol: etc etc and about 100/1000 other things ??  

Give me a break.




Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 19 June, 2010, 03:57:52 pm
If, for example, it turns out that cosmic rays are chiefly responsible for climate change,

That's like saying "if it turns out the banking system is fine and pixies have been stealing our money". Of course the bankers and politicians have turned the climate crisis to their advantage with the criminal and pointless carbon trading, but that's no excuse to give any credence to discredited theories like that one.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 19 June, 2010, 04:34:04 pm
... no excuse to give any credence to discredited theories like that one.

That theory was mentioned there in the context of the carbon tax argument, not for its level of current scientific credibility.

On the subject of scientific credibility, though, I find it curious how mere mention of certain theories such as the one alluded to can cause such an instant negative reaction. Cosmic rays certainly exist. They certainly interact with other things in the Solar System such as the heliosphere, the Earth's magnetic field and our atmosphere. Whether or not the interaction of cosmic rays with our atmosphere is a driver to climate change or not is surely, from a scientific standpoint, irrelevant?

Science is not a straight path and study of cosmic ray interactions in the atmosphere may lead to a deeper understanding of how our climate works or even lead to some other discovery entirely. Once a theory is slammed and mocked because "that's not the cause," it ostracizes every serious scientist interested in that field. Political and media pressure is brought to bear on scientists, encouraging one view and rubbishing another instead of respecting the true nature of science, which is the quest for truths, be they inconvenient or otherwise.

I accept where you're coming from, Dan, and I'm prepared to admit that the current scientific opinion is that cosmic ray interactions with the atmosphere seem unlikely to be a major contributing factor to climate change. I do not accept, however, that majority scientific opinion is always correct and, because of this, any researcher who believes this to be a valid field of research should be free to explore it without political pressure to do otherwise.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 19 June, 2010, 06:14:51 pm
For the record, I posted those links to highlight 'what happened next' in response to Peter's comment (that I took to refer to UEA etc). I understand those and perhaps future findings may be seen as part of the alleged conspiracy, but there you go. I'm not interested in 'converting' anyone.

I've stated before now what my view on the whole thing is, so I won't repeat myself apart from saying I find a lot of people IMO would rather believe ANYTHING other than we have had a direct and measurable impact on the atmosphere.

The fact the fuckers well discussed here can make money out of it, well it doesn't make me very comfortable, but it doesn't give me any doubts about my own understanding.

And I live over 10m OD :)

(I was reading this morning about a proposed link between megafauna extinction and a drop in CH4, linking to the Younger Dryas/Nahanagan! How interesting is that?)

M
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 19 June, 2010, 06:34:05 pm
A good point well put, Mikey.

I honestly don't know if it's all a conspiracy or not, to be honest. The corporations and central banks may or may not be singing from the same hymn sheet, and what does it really matter if they are? We can carry on as is or we can change things.

And for the record, I don't know enough about what's causing climate change to be sure of anything. I just don't know. All I know is that we'd better learn to either control it or adapt to it, or a mixture of the two, or we might all live to regret it.

As for the proposed link between megafauna extinction and a drop in CH4, linking to the Younger Dryas/Nahanagan, I can only say this: Huh? You just made me feel very dumb :)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 19 June, 2010, 08:27:22 pm
I am not sure i like all this "Blame Obama" thing going on with the BP oil leak because its too much like over-simplified scapegoating when its actually far more complicated than that and really the blame is has to be shared with all those who have vested interests in BP like Goldman Sachs and politicians in govt in the US, BP themselves, and all kinds of things.

There is a "Blame Obama" voting box ad type thing on Youtube.

I think its idiotic and its for people who havent got a clue about anything and as much as i have disagreed with the Obama administration on just about EVERYTHING i cant go along with mindless misdirected scapegoating on an obvious target because that always means that those who are actually to blame and are responsible get away with it all yet again just like they always do like Goldman Sachs for example.The way i see it potentially going with this situation is Barak.H.Obama being used and set up as a fall guy in an attempt to save the reputation and viability of BP as a going concern.This is the way that the likes of Goldman Sachs [major shareholders of BP] etc work to protect their investments as they use people up and then throw them away when they are no longer useful.

I said Obama was capitulating to corporate/financial interests and thats because corporate/financial interests own and paid for Obamas election campaign and own Obama so Obama just does what he is told and thats how it works.Look at BPs activities in the Gulf Of Mexico right now because that tells you all you need to know about who exactly is in charge and its certainly not Obama or the US Federal govt for that matter.

People dont know anything about how the pecking order/hierachy works in politics.


For the record, I posted those links to highlight 'what happened next' in response to Peter's comment (that I took to refer to UEA etc). I understand those and perhaps future findings may be seen as part of the alleged conspiracy, but there you go. I'm not interested in 'converting' anyone.

I've stated before now what my view on the whole thing is, so I won't repeat myself apart from saying I find a lot of people IMO would rather believe ANYTHING other than we have had a direct and measurable impact on the atmosphere.

The fact the fuckers well discussed here can make money out of it, well it doesn't make me very comfortable, but it doesn't give me any doubts about my own understanding.


M

I just deleted my reply by mistake unfortunately so another time but i didnt want to appear like i was ignoring your posts.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 20 June, 2010, 12:05:35 pm
 :-[  :o

Um, I'm both relieved and slightly embarassed; I don't really remember posting that second comment yesterday as I'd been drinking cider and getting sunburned during the afternoon.

Thankfully I didn't kick off! But why the hell did I add that bit at the end? I can see what I was thinking about, but was too fuddled to make a point. It was also posted from my phone, so must have taken ages to type (found my phone in the garden, which lead to the dim recollection I had posted something  ::) ) it's the first time I've posted drunk, honest.

As you were...

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 20 June, 2010, 02:30:15 pm
:-[  :o

Um, I'm both relieved and slightly embarassed; I don't really remember posting that second comment yesterday as I'd been drinking cider and getting sunburned during the afternoon.

Thankfully I didn't kick off! But why the hell did I add that bit at the end? I can see what I was thinking about, but was too fuddled to make a point. It was also posted from my phone, so must have taken ages to type (found my phone in the garden, which lead to the dim recollection I had posted something  ::) ) it's the first time I've posted drunk, honest.

As you were...

M.


I dont see any problem with your second comment so i am not sure what you mean and if you were drunk then it was certainly not apparent.

I am not doing politics today either.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 20 June, 2010, 03:33:59 pm
It's the bit in brackets-it's not relevant and comes across as smartarse I think. The rest I'm ok with!

M
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 20 June, 2010, 03:55:50 pm
It's the bit in brackets-it's not relevant and comes across as smartarse I think. The rest I'm ok with!

M


And I live over 10m OD :)



M

I didnt know what that was meant to mean or what "Nahanagen" is but i didnt pay a lot of attention to it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Christov on 21 June, 2010, 11:12:41 pm
Prepare for a massive rodding with tomorrow's budget if you're not rich as fuck.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 22 June, 2010, 01:03:36 am
How do conspiracy theories start? Here's a clue to a theory emerging at this very moment:

First, read this:  http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/miracl.htm

Then, watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eLHGblEww

Finally, Bond, report to Q Branch for your atomic wristwatch and invisible car...


(Of course, it could just be an optical illusion.)

They start like this:


http://shtf411.com/bp-illusion-of-a-false-spill-t7065.html

This has just appeared in the last couple of days.I have read this 3 times very quickly buts its full of holes and inconsistencies.Its also where the info first appeared but i may be wrong but notice that forum user @Forbidden knowledge has only posted 2 comments.

For starters at the very beginning of the article in the first paragraph the author states :

 "I cannot reveal my sources as they go straight to the top"

Then at the beginning of the second paragraph the author states :

 "Much of the information i present here cannot be easily verified ,fast checked , or ever presented as anything , but hearsay , as they are just the words of an anonymous online entity."

That just contradicts itself completely.

The words of an anonymous online entity or 2 if you count the author of the article i quoted or more likely just the author of the article.If they were provided with the information from an "anonymous online entity" then why not quote the original info rather than re-writing it ?

There are so many inconsistencies in this i havent got the time to list them all and there is just something about the wording and the way its presented which makes me very suspicious not to mention the fact it has been leaked or published on an obscure website instead of somewhere credible.These types always claim to have inside info and know more than you or i do yet they never elaborate on it .

If something sounds too good to be true then quite often it is.

This info is bullshit in my opinion but that doesnt mean everything in it is bullshit.

Prepare for a massive rodding with tomorrow's budget if you're not rich as fuck.


We already have had a massive "Rodding" already and have done since the economy collapsed.This just adds to it even more.Business as usual.More revenue collection for the UK corporation and the banking cartel and the longer everyone tolerates it the longer it will go on.

Business as usual.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 22 June, 2010, 01:10:12 am
The Kremlin does not approve of Vodka. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/21/russia-shock-ads-price-vodka

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 22 June, 2010, 11:33:16 am
The Kremlin does not approve of Vodka. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/21/russia-shock-ads-price-vodka

I think there's a massive clue to potential policy failure right here: "Russians who cannot afford vodka often turn to powerful, and sometimes deadly, homemade spirits." Hmm. That's what I thought. If you make the legitimate stuff more expensive, you'll turn even more people to black market poison.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 22 June, 2010, 07:37:48 pm
The budget wasn't as bad as I was expecting. The missus has done some quick calculations and we are better off  :thumbsup:






V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Al_Ewing on 16 July, 2010, 12:09:26 am
Hesitant though I am to bring this thread back to life... I assume everyone's making their views heard on this thingy?

http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/

Remember you can vote down as well as up.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 16 July, 2010, 12:16:21 am
Oh, joy. Prepare yourselves for another bill to bring back hanging, this time "by public demand."

Gah!

Jim
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 16 July, 2010, 12:56:06 am
Oh, joy. Prepare yourselves for another bill to bring back hanging, this time "by public demand."

Gah!

Jim

I hope not. Nick Clegg says in the video that there were some ideas suggested that the coalition is explicitly not going to consider putting into legislation, like re-introducing the death penalty and repealing the ban on indoor smoking in public places.

Doesn't rule out a Private Member's Bill though. I cede your point!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 July, 2010, 01:26:35 am
As some of you know, I've been trying to get answers from the Treasury. They have replied to my questions but, as somebody once said, all answers are replies but not all replies are answers. Here's the Treasury's evasions and obfuscations in their entirity:

To Mr Howard

Thank you for your email dated 9 June about government debt.

For clarity, I will address each of your questions in turn.

1.   Is the Bank of England a fully government controlled entity, is it privately held or is it semi-private/public? (please choose from one of these options and provide sources to support your answer)

The entire capital stock of the Bank of England was brought into public ownership under the Bank of England Act 1946. By the Bank of England (Transfer of Stock) Order 1946, the person nominated by the Treasury to hold the stock was the Solicitor for the Affairs of HM Treasury (the Treasury Solicitor).

2.   What is the authority relation between the UK government, the Bank of England and      the MPC? In other words: who is legally allowed to override whose decisions? (please provide sources to support your answer)

The Bank of England Act 1998 states that the Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) of the Bank of England is an independent Committee of the Bank. The Bank's Court of Directors keeps the procedures followed by the MPC under review, but the MPC has full responsibility and independence for formulating monetary policy. Section 19 of the Bank of England Act 1998 states that "the Treasury, after consultation with the Governor of the Bank, may by order give the Bank directions with respect to monetary policy if they are satisfied that the directions are required in the public interest and by extreme economic circumstances." The full Bank of England Act 1998 is available at the following address:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/legislation/1998act.pdf


3.   Is it or is it not true that the UK government, like many other countries, acquired their large debts because the central bank was privatized, issuance of money was delegated to the privatized central bank and interest was charged to the UK government on the money it borrowed from the central bank? (please provide a simple yes or no answer first, then feel free to elaborate and please provide sources to support your answer)

The Treasury's glossary of terms states that the national debt is the total amount of debt owed by a government, raised through borrowing from individuals and institutions. It is the sum total of all previously incurred deficits that have not been paid. The glossary is available in full at the Treasury's website:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/junebudget_glossary.htm


4.   Is it or is it not true that the UK government issues government bonds to the central bank, in effect making tax payers the collateral for the debts incurred? (if your answer is "no", then please explain what IS used as collateral and provide sources to support your answer)

The UK Government does not issue Government bonds (gilts) to the central bank. The Debt Management Office (DMO) sells gilts to the Gilt-Edged Market Makers (GEMMs) in the primary market. The GEMMs then sell gilts to end-investors in the secondary market. The Bank of England purchases gilts in the secondary market via the Asset Purchase Facility (APF) or for its own balance sheet purposes. The Government will indemnify the Bank of England and the fund specially created by the Bank to implement the APF for any losses arising out of or connected to the facility, as set out in the letter from the previous Chancellor to the Governor of the Bank of England available at the following website link: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/ck_letter_boe290109.pdf


5.   Please name 10 nations that do not have a privatized central bank that issues debt based currency. Please name 10 nations that do not have a national debt.

The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is an international organisation, which fosters international monetary and financial cooperation and serves as a bank for central banks. The following link is a hub for all the Central Bank websites, which will provide information for each one on its legal structure as well as information on each Central Bank's operations. http://bis.org/cbanks.htm

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) collects data on its 187 member countries. Its World Economic Outlook database provides information on economic and government statistics for each of these countries, including historical and forecasts of government debt. http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/01/weodata/index.aspx


6.   Do you PERSONALLY believe that it is good for a government to be forced to      borrow debt based money from a privatized central bank? Do you personally believe that this is better for taxpayers than if a government would issue its own debt free money, NOT to finance borrowing, but to prevent debts to third parties and to control government spending?

In line with the Civil Service Code, it is not appropriate for civil servants to proffer personal opinions on government policy. As set out in the answer to your fourth question, the Government does not issue gilts to the central bank. The DMO sells gilts to the GEMMs in the primary market, who in turn sell gilts to end-investors in the secondary market.

As set out in the answer to your second question, the MPC of the Bank of England has full operational independence over monetary policy. The Chancellor confirmed in the Budget that the MPC will continue to target 2 per cent inflation, as measured by the 12-month increase in the Consumer Prices Index (CPI). The MPC could not instruct the Bank of England to print money to fund government spending and prevent debt to third parties as it would not be consistent with the MPC meeting its inflation target. Further information on the monetary policy framework is available at the Bank of England's website: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/index.htm

7.   Do you PERSONALLY believe that treaties like the Maastricht Treaty should be      adhered to in perpetuity, even if it is not to the benefit of the nation and its taxpayers?

In line with the Civil Service Code, it is not appropriate for civil servants to proffer personal opinions on government policy. The Government believes that membership of the EU is in the UK's national interest, and intends to vigorously champion the interests of the UK and play an active role within the EU. The Government also believes that the EU needs to change and that it can do things better, but is confident in Britain's ability to move the EU in the right direction. I would also note that the government has set out that it intends to amend the 1972 European Communities Act so that any further transfer of powers must be subject to a referendum.
 
I hope that you find these responses helpful.

Yours sincerely
Enquiry Unit


So, are we any the wiser?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 16 July, 2010, 01:44:10 am
Now look what you've done, Mr. Al so-called Ewing!  ::)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 July, 2010, 01:58:32 am
Bwa ha ha haaaaa
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 16 July, 2010, 07:43:00 am
Even though most of that was cut-and-paste of dubious relevance, I'm still amazed at the length of those answers.  It might have been a bit optimistic to look for 'personal' opinions, and I'm not sure the rhetorical Question 5 was a good idea, but very interesting (if not enlightening) all the same... 
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 July, 2010, 01:08:53 pm
I would have worded question 5 as name any country whose privately owned independent central bank doesnt operate a criminal Ponzi scheme and which also doesnt conspire in conjunction with other criminal banking institutions and the BIS and govt to interfere with and manipulate the money markets and conspire to expand and contract the money supply as and when it is directed by the private consortium of majority shareholders of the privately owned central banks and which doesnt create debt in order to snare the nation state in a trap where it is beholden to the IMF which is the international holding company of the majority shareholders of the criminal privately owned Ponzi banking system.


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 16 July, 2010, 01:25:54 pm
I would have put some punctuation in.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 16 July, 2010, 01:43:25 pm
:lol:

M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 16 July, 2010, 01:46:48 pm
I would have worded question 5 as name any country whose privately owned independent central bank doesnt operate a criminal Ponzi scheme and which also doesnt conspire in conjunction with other criminal banking institutions... etc.etc.

Yeah, but would you have expected a Civil Service department to answer a 'name any country', 'name 5 countries', etc. type question?  It's plainly a rhetorical device rather than a genuine enquiry.   
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 16 July, 2010, 01:52:04 pm
Um, yah. Your first mistake was all caps. IT MAKES YOU LOOK CRAZY.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: GordonR on 16 July, 2010, 02:03:42 pm
'Look'?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 July, 2010, 02:16:40 pm
I knew they wouldn’t be able to answer Q5. So far as I can tell, the only countries in the world free of a National Debt are Brunei, Liechtenstein, Macau and  Palau. That’s four countries out of 196 which are debt-free. If that little statistic doesn't indicate that something is wrong somewhere, I don't know what does.

I'm still picking my way through this Treasury reply and formulating a response and I'll post it here if anyone's interested. (If anyone's getting intrigued by this, try finding out who is on Bank of England Nominees Ltd and why the BoE only pays 25% of its profits to the Treasury. Where does the other 75% go?)

JUST FOR ROGER, I'LL WRITE MY NEXT EMAIL TO THEM LIKE THIS.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 16 July, 2010, 04:24:47 pm
I would have put some punctuation in.

With a small amount of Biological stuff  ;)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 July, 2010, 10:11:43 pm
(If anyone's getting intrigued by this, try finding out who is on Bank of England Nominees Ltd and why the BoE only pays 25% of its profits to the Treasury. Where does the other 75% go?)



The other 75 percent goes to the majority shareholders of BOEN Ltd [limited liability - how convenient !] which must be the queen and Rothschilds etc who deposit it offshore or wherever where no tax is paid on it whatsoever and the other 25 percent gets given to HM Treasury which effectively means that they are giving it to themselves.

The BOEN is protected by non disclosure acts unlike any other limited liability company so it never has to disclose anything about its assets or financial activities because :


“it was considered undesirable that the disclosure requirements should apply to certain categories of shareholders”.The BOEN was set up in 1977.

That statement says it all.

Heres the crunch though....UK govt has no power whatsoever over the BOE itself as it is a sovereign entity that is located within an individual sovereign state which is the City Of London so therefore it cannot be a publically owned company or asset by default plus its the BOEN that controls the BOE and the govt plays a superficial role in the activities of the BOE and even less so since more power was given back to the BOE in 1998 when it allowed the BOE to set interest rates which is when the Ponzi scheme/funny money scam really took off .

The majority shareholders of BOEN LTD also invest heavily in UK/HM Govt bonds and this on record from Sir Evil-In De Rothschild.Its the most secure investment there is.

Anyway the BOE is not Govt controlled or owned and it is a wholly independent privately owned limited liability company and if the BOE was publically owned we would not be paying interest on the funny money that it prints when the Govt borrows from the BOE.

How is that possible if you are a shareholder in a publically owned company ?

 ::) :lol:

Anyway without rambling on anymore this should answer the question correctly rather than the reply by HM Treasury Borg mind which did not provide a satisfactory answer.They can hardly admit thast it is privately owned and they cant very well lie and claim that it is publically owned so its like a taboo subject.

The whole concept of a Central bank is something that is derived from the Communist model of centralised govt and central planning.

My Dad had an interesting idea of setting yourself up as a limited liability company which means you wouldnt be liable for debts incurred by yourself to banks etc etc as its based on exactly the same principle as any limited liability company.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: vzzbux on 16 July, 2010, 11:09:31 pm
If hanging is brought back by public vote then in my opinion it is deserved. But lets not let this happen. There are a lot of people who would like to see this back.







V
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 16 July, 2010, 11:16:43 pm
My Dad had an interesting idea of setting yourself up as a limited liability company which means you wouldnt be liable for debts incurred by yourself to banks etc etc as its based on exactly the same principle as any limited liability company.

It's a neat idea, but as I've found to my very great cost, these days no bank will lend buttons to a small limited company without a guarantee secured against the owners' assets.  So while the 'limited' part of the incorporation secures executive directors against excessive liability (with the exception of criminal liability) the guarantee needed to secure working capital or maintain liquidity (i.e. the debt incurred against the bank) is no different from any other personal loan - except that the bank can generally call time whenever it wants.  I imagine it works differently in the big leagues, but if you're a small operator you're screwed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 16 July, 2010, 11:51:41 pm


It's a neat idea, but as I've found to my very great cost, these days no bank will lend buttons to a small limited company without a guarantee secured against the owners' assets.  So while the 'limited' part of the incorporation secures executive directors against excessive liability (with the exception of criminal liability) the guarantee needed to secure working capital or maintain liquidity (i.e. the debt incurred against the bank) is no different from any other personal loan - except that the bank can generally call time whenever it wants.  I imagine it works differently in the big leagues, but if you're a small operator you're screwed.

I think thats because banks and govt want to put a stranglehold on the private sector and small businesses as its their policy even though the banks were given our money to free up the credit market in order to encourage a recovery but of course it didnt quite work out like that as the banks sat on the money instead.

This is one of the main reasons we are not seeing an economic recovery while we are being constantly lied to by govt and media who keep asserting that the economy is recovering although very recently they have changed their tune and are now saying we are in a Depression.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 22 July, 2010, 05:01:10 pm
"Zeitgeist" is on Controversial TV (Sky Channel 200) tonight at 7pm. Well worth a watch.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 July, 2010, 02:52:39 pm
There needs to be more of this sort of thing :

Cops charge Irish govt with Treason:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Cops-Charge-Irish-Governme-by-Gabriel-Donohoe-100722-896.html

This is what needs to happen in every country that has been infiltrated with these fifth columnist Bilderberg/globalist lurkers that have infested the political system like cockroaches.Alongside charges of Treason there should be charges of political/economic malfeascence plus various other charges that i cant be bothered to type.

I cant see the UK police and judiciary doing this as they have been thoroughly compromised so they should be charged with dereliction of duty as well.Actually thats a military term but its still appropriate.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 25 July, 2010, 03:19:16 pm
Not that I disagree one whit with the sentiment, but the Gardaí's actual complaint was that their benchmarked pay, overtime payments, generous allowance system and pension entitlements (90% of their final pension fund comes from the taxpayer, 10% from their own contributions) are under threat as part of cutbacks in public sector spending - along with most everyone else (public spending cuts that are genuinely necessary as tax revenues literally implode).  The reason for the strong language is that they aren't permitted to strike, so words are all they have.  I wouldn't mistake it for an altruistic defense of  representative democracy (although our cops do have a pleasantly light touch, and I wouldn't do their job for a sackful of IPads). 

But yeah, economic treason, that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 July, 2010, 03:28:49 pm
"(public spending cuts that are genuinely necessary as tax revenues literally implode)"

Public spending cuts are only necessary due to the fact that governments borrow money from private central banks like the BoE and the Fed instead of creating their own. Borrow money = money lent into society. Create money = money spent into society.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 25 July, 2010, 03:35:58 pm
What a misleasding headline - nobody's been charged with anything (in the legal sense), somebody has just made a speech at a conference - and it seems that the hardest hitting bits of the speech were never even delivered:
Quote
"Gardaí present at the meeting gave Mr. O'Boyce a standing ovation for the speech of which they were aware but which was never actually made."
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 25 July, 2010, 03:46:03 pm
"(public spending cuts that are genuinely necessary as tax revenues literally implode)"

Public spending cuts are only necessary due to the fact that governments borrow money from private central banks like the BoE and the Fed instead of creating their own. Borrow money + money lent into society. Create money = money spent into society.

Yeah, I do get that TLS, and I'm all about fair taxation, borrowing and investment over PS cuts, but average Garda remuneration (across all ranks and divisions, and including allowances) is €62,000 p.a.  (STG£52,000).  That's twice the average industrial wage, and (I believe) about 50% over their British counterparts.  

These ludicrously high figures have been reached by an irresponsible  Government handing out seemingly endless increases to its public sector for the sake of an easy life, and  a correspondingly high wage for themselves at the top of the scale.  As often noted our Taoiseachs's salary is higher than Obama's (although this is a convenient calculation that ignores a great many things about the benefits of the office of POTUS).  All the 'creating wealth' in the world isn't going to make for a competive economy if it has to handle the overheads.

I should also note that a large part of the way the Irish Govt approaches PS cuts is designed to incite jealousy and bitterness, and forms part of a rather brilliant divide-and-conquer strategy.  In this instance it does seem to me that a more streamlined way of funding an effective police force might be to everyone's advantage.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 July, 2010, 05:21:22 pm
Not that I disagree one whit with the sentiment, but the Gardaí's actual complaint was that their benchmarked pay, overtime payments, generous allowance system and pension entitlements (90% of their final pension fund comes from the taxpayer, 10% from their own contributions) are under threat as part of cutbacks in public sector spending - along with most everyone else (public spending cuts that are genuinely necessary as tax revenues literally implode).  The reason for the strong language is that they aren't permitted to strike, so words are all they have.  I wouldn't mistake it for an altruistic defense of  representative democracy (although our cops do have a pleasantly light touch, and I wouldn't do their job for a sackful of IPads).  

But yeah, economic treason, that's pretty much it.

Thats not the impression i got from reading the article but hopefully its the thin end of the wedge.

18 percent approval rating for Brian Cowan  :lol: :lol:

Thats one used up and washed up sellout politician but theres plenty more where that came from.

The article also states that the Irish bailouts were the most expensive but i disagree with that completely unless it has been calculated on some kind of per capita basis.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 July, 2010, 07:06:08 pm
"Yeah, I do get that TLS, and I'm all about fair taxation..."

Sorry, Tords - I know I'm a broken record when it comes to this and I do go on about it waaaaay too much.  :-[  :-X
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 25 July, 2010, 07:25:28 pm
Not at all squire, it's all part of an interesting conversation.  As Data would say, please continue with the pointless bickering!  What I really meant to do was call into question the motives behind that 'speech' (the article casts it in the light of a heroic people's police force standing up to its despotic masters - sort of like Mace Windu going to arrest Chancellor Palpatine, whereas in reality it's a plea to maintain the status quo), rather than to oppose its message, which I (pretty much) agree with.  
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 July, 2010, 05:39:47 am
We all know that some corporations think nothing of destroying ordinary people like you and me to turn a buck. We grumble about it and don't do much because, well, there are agencies and government departments to protect us, right? Occasionally, though, something comes along to demonstrate just how little we matter when compared to profits. One such thing is the documentary "GasLand," about the process of hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," which I just watched with horror. Fracking may be coming to Europe, if we don't stop it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1558250/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1558250/)

I urge everyone to do a search and watch it online or download it.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 26 July, 2010, 01:24:43 pm
We all know that some corporations think nothing of destroying ordinary people like you and me to turn a buck. We grumble about it and don't do much because, well, there are agencies and government departments to protect us, right? Occasionally, though, something comes along to demonstrate just how little we matter when compared to profits.

The BP disaster proves that govts collude with multinationals or are subservient to them plus the fact that govt agencies do nothing to protect you.Govt is the very last thing i would expect help from and if anything protection is needed against Govt and corporation.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 July, 2010, 02:18:42 pm
Why the world needs WikiLeaks

http://www.ted.com/talks/julian_assange_why_the_world_needs_wikileaks.html?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2010-07-20
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 26 July, 2010, 07:05:16 pm
One such thing is the documentary "GasLand," about the process of hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," which I just watched with horror. Fracking may be coming to Europe, if we don't stop it.

If you mean THIS (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/25/shale-gas-drilling-blackpool), then it may indeed be coming to Blackpool. Or rather "a geological formation that stretches from Pendle Hill to the Lancashire coast near Blackpool", which is where I grew up and comprises the Ribble Valley and the Trough of Bowland, some of the loveliest countryside in Lancashire.

I am not a happy bunny.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 July, 2010, 07:35:00 pm
I live in the Ribble Valley, just across the marshes from St Anne's.

I can feel a crusade coming on, especially if even half of what I saw in that documentary is true (for example, tap-water that can be set on fire as it comes out of the tap!).

My happy bunnyness has also plummeted.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 26 July, 2010, 11:57:26 pm
http://www2.fylde.gov.uk/1/00/04/47/00044748.pdf

https://www.og.decc.gov.uk/upstream/licensing/onshore_10th/Basin_HC_prosp.pdf

http://nohotair.typepad.co.uk/no_hot_air/2010/03/first-uk-shale-gas-well.html

Cuadrilla is backed by the Carlyle Group. Oh shit. We'd best start stocking up on drinking water.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: I, Cosh on 27 July, 2010, 12:10:05 am
I can feel a crusade coming on, especially if even half of what I saw in that documentary is true (for example, tap-water that can be set on fire as it comes out of the tap!).
ARSOM! I would buy a house there if it's guaranteed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 27 July, 2010, 02:46:55 am
Why the world needs WikiLeaks

http://www.ted.com/talks/julian_assange_why_the_world_needs_wikileaks.html?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2010-07-20

Why indeed  :-*

Beware of Wikileaks.

Wikileaks and Julian Assange are rather suspect.Not so long ago or very recently Julian Assange was on a wanted list and in hiding in undisclosed locations because of the Apache helicopter video footage and the next thing you know he is giving talks for the Globalist/Elitist TED organisation whose talks are sponsored by one of those nasty corporations that are part of the military/industrial complex.The next thing you know he is in London giving speeches.

The thinking is that Wikileaks is there to create the pretext for govt clampdowns on freedom on the internet by releasing all this "classified" military material and documents.

Julian Assange releases 92,000 highly classified military documents or logs or whatever about Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iran and he is giving speeches in public about it ?



Alarm bells are ringing and the bullshit detector is going off.

If the intelligence agencies and those that control the US govt etc etc really wanted to stop the info being leaked then it has had every opportunity to do so and every means at their disposal not to mention they had advance notice for weeks that Wikileaks were going to release the info as Julian Assange talked about this recently when he was allegedly in hiding as i mentioned above.This leak of info is being allowed to happen and its also interesting how a lot of the info being leaked is actually reinforcing the agenda of the War On Terror fraud by whistleblowing all this info to do with funding and training of Al Queada and the Taliban by Iran and Pakistan and no doubt other countries like Somalia etc etc.

Its very convoluted but Wikileaks is working in cooperation with various govts,intelligence agencies[CIA/Mossad etc] and are also suspected to be linked to George Soros who is allegedly behind the idea of moving Wikileaks to Iceland and in Iceland being set up as apparent "Safehaven" for internet freedom.

Its all very suspect and its my thinking that Wikileaks [I always thought that was an odd choice of name] are not what they appear and that Julian Assange is some kind of CIA/Mossad asset.

Theres more than that and a lot more besides but that will do for now.

http://www2.fylde.gov.uk/1/00/04/47/00044748.pdf

https://www.og.decc.gov.uk/upstream/licensing/onshore_10th/Basin_HC_prosp.pdf

http://nohotair.typepad.co.uk/no_hot_air/2010/03/first-uk-shale-gas-well.html

Cuadrilla is backed by the Carlyle Group. Oh shit. We'd best start stocking up on drinking water.

The Carlyle Group and Halliburton are closely connected as they share the same investors/shareholders.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 28 July, 2010, 06:08:55 pm
Collecting Rainwater Now Illegal In Many States In USA:  http://www.countercurrents.org/adams280710.htm
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 30 July, 2010, 10:47:55 pm
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9018/davidcameronpostergroun.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/davidcameronpostergroun.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 30 July, 2010, 11:23:28 pm
This...thread...is...dead.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 31 July, 2010, 11:46:22 am
This...thread...is...dead.

Its not dead at all as it is just in a coma the majority of the time.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 31 July, 2010, 12:49:34 pm
Its not dead at all as it is just in a coma the majority of the time.

Just like real politics.

Also, ya-boo!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 31 July, 2010, 01:42:28 pm
Its not dead at all as it is just in a coma the majority of the time.

Just like real politics.

Also, ya-boo!

I am enjoying the Wilikleaks/Mainstream media Dog and Pony show !   :D
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 31 July, 2010, 01:47:22 pm
I see David Cameron has managed to offend both Israel and Pakistan in a single day.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Something Fishy on 31 July, 2010, 10:01:02 pm
I see David Cameron has managed to offend both Israel and Pakistan in a single day.

he's done well just two weeks after offending his own war heroes.

From what I can tell, the guys a bit of an idiot.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 01 August, 2010, 12:30:53 am
I see David Cameron has managed to offend both Israel and Pakistan in a single day.



at least he's spreading his bigotry around.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 04 August, 2010, 02:29:09 am
http://www.worldreports.org/news/282_all_uk_legislation_passed_since_2000_is_null_and_void

Is this  :o ,  ::) or  :lol: ?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 04 August, 2010, 09:33:48 am
Definitely  ::) - It's a ridiculous story. Some highlights:
"the laws don't exist in reality, only on paper" - huh?
"ignoring this will have fatal consequences" - no it won't.

The internet is full of some strange and deluded people, but nouveau-royalist paranoid conspiracy theorists are a new one on me though! You have to go quite far down before we get the Obama-bashing and World government nonsense. And then it goes on to advertise some "internet solutions" that will protect you from the microsoft/google/NSA/CIA conspiracy. The net equivalent of a tinfoil hat, or an elaborate spamming excercise to sell software to gullible conspiracy nuts - you decide.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Mikey on 04 August, 2010, 01:07:55 pm
What do you think yourself Shark?

I'm with DDD block. I think that such sites would be much more convincing, or at least feasibly credible, if they wouldn't throw around emotive language so much.

but nouveau-royalist paranoid conspiracy theorists are a new one on me though!

What the hell do you do on the intertubes, Dan? Look up pr0n? Well, pull up yer breeks and get with it!


M.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 04 August, 2010, 01:16:44 pm
Yeah, I thought pretty much what Dan thought - however, the dodgy removal of the peers from the House of Lords is interesting, constitutionally speaking.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 04 August, 2010, 01:56:43 pm
Yeah, I thought pretty much what Dan thought - however, the dodgy removal of the peers from the House of Lords is interesting, constitutionally speaking.


But the UK does not have a constitution, and never has - our laws are made up as we go along, based on votes in parliament and legal precedent.  In the USA a law can be struck down because it does not conform to the constitution, which trumps everything else, but we don't have that. So to say such and such a law in the UK is not valid is bollocks - if parliament passed it, it's valid and supercedes everything that has gone before.

Personally, I support the creation of a binding constitution that sets out certain principles and freedoms, but it's a whole big can o'worms that nobody seems keen to tackle.

What the hell do you do on the intertubes, Dan? Look up pr0n? Well, pull up yer breeks and get with it!
:-[ ahem, no no of course not *rapidly deletes browsing history*.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 04 August, 2010, 02:17:04 pm
It's not strictly true that Britain has no constitution. Unlike the United States, which has a written Constitution, ours is contained in several documents such as Magna Carta, acts of Parliament and court judgements along with other aspects such as parliamentary constitutional conventions and royal prerogatives. It's all a bit of an unholy mess, really, and I think that we probably should have a proper, codified constitution to protect both the British people and the integrity of our Parliament.

That said, it has worked well in the past (until Europe began sticking its oar in) - no parliament could pass a law ignoring the aforementioned documents etc without repealing those old statutes or laws first. For example, Parliament couldn't pass a law requiring all blue eyed babies to be killed without a hell of a lot of prior destruction of existing statutes, legislation or laws. Just passing a bill saying something is so, doesn't automatically make it law. At least, that's how I understand it (which is, admittedly, probably not very well).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 04 August, 2010, 04:47:07 pm


 And then it goes on to advertise some "internet solutions" that will protect you from the microsoft/google/NSA/CIA conspiracy. The net equivalent of a tinfoil hat, or an elaborate spamming excercise to sell software to gullible conspiracy nuts - you decide.


Google and Microsoft and Facebook,Twitter etc are all working with the NSA/CIA to varying degrees.This is official and its mostly about sharing information.Its also common knowledge that computer software and microchips [IntelInside - as if the name isnt obvious enough!] and anti-virus software etc are all compromised or more accurately were specifically designed/written to allow govt intelligence agencies access to your computer.

This is very well documented.

Its actually more absurd to imagine that intelligence agencies/govt dont have any ties with Google etc.

You need to cross reference before you dismiss something you dont know anything about completely out of hand.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 04 August, 2010, 05:56:20 pm
I see David Cameron's latest nutty idea to spread envy and division is a proposal to do away with lifetime council tenancies in favour of 5-year tenancies reviewed according to 'need' (doesn't everybody need a home?) and income. This, apparently, on the grounds of 'scarce resource' and 'social mobility.'

David Cameron, you terrible c***!


I can't imagine a single housing officer in the country can think this is a good idea.
I can't believe this will ever happen. It's just another right-wing politician mouthing off to impress moronic Daily Mail readers.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 04 August, 2010, 06:03:51 pm
And these bastards are supposed to be looking out for our best interests. What a joke.

We need to take our government back. Simple as that.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 04 August, 2010, 06:15:15 pm
Can anyone tell me how many council houses 'NEW' Labour built whilst they ruled the land. They could have borrowed 'even' more money that we don't have to do it, just like all the other money they spent, which has made our debt worse than most other countries.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 04 August, 2010, 06:24:50 pm
Can anyone tell me how many council houses 'NEW' Labour built whilst they ruled the land.

The figure for 2008 was 375. I don't know how many for the period 1997-2010, but the answer is 'not many.' Most new social housing built since 1980 was built by housing associations - councils just didn't have the money to do it, and they weren't allowed.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 04 August, 2010, 06:33:32 pm
Everything Usher lists rings true.  It's not entirely comparable to a house, but you should see the shenanigans that go on over here in the Banana Republic with the means-tested Medical Card (entitling the 'lucky' 30% (of which many are OAPs) to free GP visits (currently ca. €60 a visit, even for babies), prescriptions, glasses and dental treament).  

If you've a few kids, or god forbid you or one or more of your family has any kind of chronic or persistent medical needs it's a life-saver, but get any kind of even average-paying job and it's gone and that's all suddenly got to come out of your wage - almost by definition you'll be worse off working, unless you can get a well-paid position straight out of the gate.  Add to that the extreme difficulty of getting your card back if your new job turns out to be short term, and it's a serious disincentive to doing anything that might increase your (declared) income

I've known several highly capable blokes who were effectively stuck in an endless cycle of training schemes, 'community employment' and nixers so that they could hang on to their medical card to support sick kids, and in one case a sick wife.  The term 'poverty trap' could have been coined for this one thing.  Imagine that scenario heightened by the fear of losing your home.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dandontdare on 04 August, 2010, 08:54:07 pm
It's insanity. Get a good job - and lose your home! Can't think of a bigger disincentive.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 04 August, 2010, 09:19:05 pm
Everything Usher lists rings true.  It's not entirely comparable to a house, but you should see the shenanigans that go on over here in the Banana Republic with the means-tested Medical Card (entitling the 'lucky' 30% (of which many are OAPs) to free GP visits (currently ca. €60 a visit, even for babies), prescriptions, glasses and dental treament).  

If you've a few kids, or god forbid you or one or more of your family has any kind of chronic or persistent medical needs it's a life-saver, but get any kind of even average-paying job and it's gone and that's all suddenly got to come out of your wage - almost by definition you'll be worse off working, unless you can get a well-paid position straight out of the gate.  Add to that the extreme difficulty of getting your card back if your new job turns out to be short term, and it's a serious disincentive to doing anything that might increase your (declared) income

I've known several highly capable blokes who were effectively stuck in an endless cycle of training schemes, 'community employment' and nixers so that they could hang on to their medical card to support sick kids, and in one case a sick wife.  The term 'poverty trap' could have been coined for this one thing.  Imagine that scenario heightened by the fear of losing your home.


Yes, we have a society that encourages fraud, even Ivor Callely's doing it. If you feel bad about it you can go to your local priest, confess your sins, chant a few incantations and still feel good about it afterwards. If it worked for the Corleones why not us?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 04 August, 2010, 10:02:33 pm


It's insanity. Get a good job - and lose your home! Can't think of a bigger disincentive.


Another disincentive must be the cost of private sector housing either to rent or buy especially in London.

Another disincentive is if you live in an area that is populated by second home owners like Cornwall.

Another disincentive is the general lack of job security which means you might at one point no longer fit the criteria for a council tenancy and then 6 months down the line you are out of a job.

Another disincentive on top of that is knowing that if you re-apply then you go right to the back of the queue

There are probably lots more.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 05 August, 2010, 11:31:06 pm
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ksrcor1DKV1qznpi1o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1281133630&Signature=BIPyw4VKYQ%2FXY6XCp21XvEg2feg%3D)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Something Fishy on 06 August, 2010, 12:02:56 am




Another disincentive is if you live in an area that is populated by second home owners like Cornwall.



spot on Pete.  We have amongst the lowest wages in the UK and yet highest house prices due to that.  I work in a social housing trust and we provide a vital lifeline for people here. We have thousands on our waiting list.  It's a horrible situation.  Rural hidden homelessness is rife here.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Stan on 06 August, 2010, 12:51:27 am
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ksrcor1DKV1qznpi1o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1281133630&Signature=BIPyw4VKYQ%2FXY6XCp21XvEg2feg%3D
:cool:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 06 August, 2010, 01:08:15 am
Yeah, I thought pretty much what Dan thought - however, the dodgy removal of the peers from the House of Lords is interesting, constitutionally speaking.


There is probably some truth in it knowing Neu Liebours shenanigans and the removal of heriditary peers and replacement with various Neu Liebour Lefist trash and curry kings etc etc and cash for peerages but any claims that it was all about removing the monarchy are utterly ridiculous because it doesnt quite work like that at all as the queen is a lot more than just a titular token figurehead.She co owns the whole country and banking system so she isnt going to be pushed out by a load of trashy Neu Liebour Nouveau champagne Marxists/Communitarians.

As for disregarding the uncollated into one article UK constitution rather than it being a conspiracy its more like a complete disregard for it just the same as it is with the Obamba adminstration in the US who totally disregard the US Constitution.

Forget it as its just silly and if anything she is complicit in the whole thing.She isnt going anywhere unfortunately.

The article itself was hard work to read and badly written and structured and it doesnt do the author or websites credibility any good whatsoever especially to those who know nothing about the subject and think its all "conspiracy nonsense".I was reading it and i was thinking just get to the bloody point of what the actual legal disparagy is but before that happens you have to wade through far too much personal opinion which was structured in such a way to attempt to force you to read through the article before it gets to the point.I dont like that type of thing and its what you do find with websites that are trying to sell you something which of course it was although there is nothing wrong in priciple with selling a product to finance your operations.

Good writing should make you want to keep reading which the article didnt as i was scrolling down it without really reading it.

Amongst other things the article is claiming that G.H.W bush is head of the banking fraternity which as far as i know is wrong as in reality G.H.W.Bush isnt that far up the mafia food chain.

The author of the article who is an investigator/journalist died very recently :

http://www.worldreports.org/news/6497_christopher_story_frsa

I have read a lot of conjecture online from various sources about the circumstances of the authors death which talked about the author being deliberately infected with viruses or something which triggered the "short illness" as he was a nuisance to the establishment.Of course this either sounds like an off the peg conspiracy theory or there might be something in it as its not exactly unknown for various people who knew too much to be suicided or irradiated or offed in any number of different ways.Dr.Kelly springs to mind here for obvious reasons.

The David Cameron Cancellasse thing is just David Cameron playing to the conservative voters/Daily Mail readers/taxi drivers/whatever and posturing because somehow David Cameron [A change agent] has got to convince them all in the next 4 years that himself and the Conservative party are actually Conservatives when in reality they are not as there are only superficial differences between them and Liebour.They think that if they give an overpriviledged Toff from Eaton in a penguin suit groomed by Bilderbergers the premiership is enough when it isnt.David Cameron is another Trojan horse and is a fan of Saul Alinsky and if you dont know who Saul Alinsky is then look it up.


(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ksrcor1DKV1qznpi1o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2Expires=1281133630&Signature=BIPyw4VKYQ%2FXY6XCp21XvEg2feg%3D)

Nobody tells the truth except nobody.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 August, 2010, 01:44:59 pm
End Legal Loan Sharking

The UK’s poorest borrowers pay the highest price for credit in Europe – we can change that.

With the End Legal Loan Sharking campaign gathering momentum every day, there has been a buzz of activity and support from politicians, academics, campaign groups and, most importantly, individuals emailing the Prime Minister to encourage him to cap the total cost of credit. Yet, from one group of people, the silence is deafening...

http://www.endlegalloansharks.org.uk/

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 August, 2010, 03:53:16 pm
End Legal Loan Sharking

The UK’s poorest borrowers pay the highest price for credit in Europe – we can change that.

With the End Legal Loan Sharking campaign gathering momentum every day, there has been a buzz of activity and support from politicians, academics, campaign groups and, most importantly, individuals emailing the Prime Minister to encourage him to cap the total cost of credit. Yet, from one group of people, the silence is deafening...

http://www.endlegalloansharks.org.uk/



There needs to be more promotion of Credit Unions especially when you compare a monthly interest rate of 1 percent - 12.7 APR on all loans over £2600 compared to the 2500 percent APR of Loan sharks.

http://www.eastsussexcu.org.uk/content.asp?section=163

I have to say that you must be pretty stupid to sign up for a loan with an interest rate of 1737 percent interest but really people need to be protected from their own stupidity by not making those kinds of interest rates available.

Doorstep unofficial loan sharks interest rates should be repaid using a baseball bat.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 August, 2010, 04:20:54 pm


Doorstep unofficial loan sharks interest rates should be repaid using a baseball bat.

 ::) :-[ :-[

That was worded really badly .I meant to say that the doostep loan sharks should be on the receiving end of the baseball bat.

Not the other way around.


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 August, 2010, 04:30:58 pm
Absolutely. It's about time money and credit began to be used as a tool for the advancement of all society rather than the vehicle of economic slavery. As somebody whose name I can't remember once said, slavery means that you have to pay for the food, water and housing of your slaves whilst economic slavery expects your slaves to pay for their own food, water and housing.

Money, like water, is essential to the smooth running of society, which is why neither should ever have been privatized. I won't be content until the ability to create and control the money supply is taken away from the private central banks and returned to the government, where it belongs. The above link is a small step in the right direction, but that's all it is.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 August, 2010, 05:32:33 pm
The above link is a small step in the right direction, but that's all it is.

Rope and forfeiture of cash and assets is another step in the right direction.

Criminal charges and proceedings and incarceration are another.

Like you i will never accept or submit to these robber barons as resolve runs very deep.

What is there to lose ??
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 25 August, 2010, 06:36:01 pm
Only our chains, brother, only our chains.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 August, 2010, 06:48:47 pm
Only our chains, brother, only our chains.

I bet if Credit Unions became much more popular then the Bankster monopolists would try to legislate them out of existence.

Its just so easy to predict.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 25 August, 2010, 06:54:51 pm

Not sure what happened but i didnt mean to double post



Competition is a sin apparently.

The whole thing is just the school playground bully scenario on a much bigger scale but the problem is solved in exactly the same way that you would deal with a bully in the playground.

People need to have more self respect.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 13 September, 2010, 11:43:10 am
Douglas Carswell leads the way on bank reform

There is a doctrine which creates wealth and spreads it around. It is just and moral. It works. It is called capitalism and, today, in practice, there is very obviously something wrong with it...

continues here:  http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2010/09/carswell-on-bank-reform.html

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 13 September, 2010, 09:22:00 pm
Sob  :( :-[ :o


http://www.politics.ie/education-science/138007-conor-lenihan-minister-science-launch-anti-evolution-book.html


Yes, The Irish Minister for Science is endorsing this bullshit

Anyone going to the Gorillas and Girls ball afterwards?
(http://www.theoriginofspeciousnonsense.com/images/launch%20pic.jpg)


Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 13 September, 2010, 09:42:45 pm
That is one kerr-azy country you got there.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 13 September, 2010, 09:57:43 pm
Five years ago this same Minister shouted out a racist slur during a parliamentary debate

The following year he was appointed Minister For Immigration



wail :(
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Jared Katooie on 13 September, 2010, 10:34:06 pm
You guys have no idea. In terms of corruption, and sheer incompotence our government makes yours look like geniuses.

Getting back to Ireland's first (I hope) Creationism book, here's a sample.

7 Reasons Why I Detect and Reject Evolution

1: It teaches us to be satisfied with - not understanding origins.

2: It promotes the dangerous nonsense of no first cause - no supreme scientist and suggests order came from disorder.

3: It is a mataphysical speculation, a doctrine dressed up in scientific garb.

4: Anyone who teaches evolution is either ignorant or deliberately suppressing the known scientific facts.

5: It is a toxic poisonous mind virus which destroys the hearts immune system against hope and common sense.

6: It is an anaesthetic against reason.

7: It cripples sanity, promotes myths, obscures reality and elevates matter above a maker.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 13 September, 2010, 11:05:45 pm
At least one of us had the balls to literally "dance on the grave" of our most infamously crooked leader Haughey and film the occasion to share with the rest of us. How many would do it elsewhere?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifibs_q7ec&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 13 September, 2010, 11:08:15 pm
Gorillas and Girls Party, must be another "rugger" get-together in Lillies for the Blackrock Boys.


At least that cunt the Pope is too afraid to come here, he stops short at England now.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 13 September, 2010, 11:08:36 pm
You guys have no idea. In terms of corruption, and sheer incompotence our government makes yours look like geniuses.

YOU WORK FOR THEM
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 13 September, 2010, 11:12:44 pm



None of us are immune unfortunately. Once you settle for placing an X beside someone's name every four years you're FUCKED.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 13 September, 2010, 11:18:20 pm
Jesus fucking Christ.  Not only do I get to watch these fuckwits destroy my country by failing to understand economics to even a Junior Cert level, now I have to see them publicly admit to utter contempt for the scientific process, and having read an extract from the book, basic logical thought. My four-year old has a better grasp on reality.  I feel sick.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 13 September, 2010, 11:19:57 pm
Remember the blasphemy law installed this year by "Dermot de Torquemada ".
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 13 September, 2010, 11:28:01 pm
Jesus fucking Christ.  Not only do I get to watch these fuckwits destroy my country by failing to understand economics to even a Junior Cert level, now I have to see them publicly admit to utter contempt for the scientific process, and having read an extract from the book, basic logical thought. My four-year old has a better grasp on reality.  I feel sick.


Seconded. Fuck them, fuck creationism and fuck their fucking blasphemy law.  Apparently freedom of speech is only permitted for believers in the outlandish superstitions of ancient desert tribes. (Apologies if you're religious, but that's the way I see it.) I wrote to my local TD for an explanation of the blasphemy law - did he get back to me or even acknowledge my letter? Did he balls.
Keep this shit out of educated countries. I think a letter to  Conor Lenihan, John J May and the papers is called for, for all the good it will do
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 13 September, 2010, 11:29:26 pm
Let's just stop paying taxes, hit 'em where it hurts.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: exilewood on 13 September, 2010, 11:30:24 pm
I ain't paid ANY tax EVER.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 13 September, 2010, 11:30:47 pm
Let's just stop paying taxes, hit 'em where it hurts.

I already have.  Although admittedly not by choice.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 13 September, 2010, 11:32:12 pm
Well done that man. Kinda.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: exilewood on 13 September, 2010, 11:36:37 pm
I'm a musician by profession - it's just the way it is.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 September, 2010, 11:49:29 pm
It looks like a flyer for a club night which it partly is anyway but the only thing missing is any drinks promotions and special offers and that kind of thing.

It looks like some kind of spoof and its not a good advertisment for the book that expects to be taken seriously.Its not a very intelligent way to present ones case.I dont know a thing about the politician in question so i cannot comment on that but i prefer politicians to not be publically promoting their religious causes as there is supposed to be a seperation of Church and State but that may not be the case in Ireland.

Also while i am not a Creationist and not particularly religious i have certain specific prejudices against Darwin and certain/specific political/philosophical doctrines or thinking that support Darwinsm but thats not for discussion today.

You guys have no idea. In terms of corruption, and sheer incompotence our government makes yours look like geniuses.




You dont know the half of it.

I have an idea alright but unfortunately  the situation is no different here than it is in Ireland and its certainly no better.We just had an election and just like i said nothing has changed and nothing is going to get better but it seems that the electorate cant even learn by Pavlovian conditioning as they just do the same thing over and over again as if they actually enjoy it and enjoy being scammed and lied to and they treat it like its a stupid game which actually isnt very far from the truth.

Its actually laughable that boarders here were encouraging me to vote Lib Dem as if i am some kind of idiot but as usual i sit here typing and explaining the truth and no one listens and no doubt in 4 years time i will be saying the same thing most probably under worse political circumstances while the whole cycle continues......

As for not paying taxes there are lots of ways round that which are legal especially if you are self employed.

Taxation without representation is Tyranny.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 13 September, 2010, 11:51:12 pm
Taxation without representation is Tyranny.

Nah, a babe with a tail, that's Tyranny.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 14 September, 2010, 12:02:45 am
Fetch me my supper, you. And tell your mom to stop dressing so dowdylike.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 14 September, 2010, 12:05:03 am
Fetch me my supper, you. And tell your mom to stop dressing so dowdylike.


Such words from "the subjects" across the water?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dreddzilla on 14 September, 2010, 12:15:30 am
So do we discuss the politics of the U.S. & A. too? or is it just Euro politics?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 14 September, 2010, 12:17:13 am
Of course you may.
PLEASE NO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dreddzilla on 14 September, 2010, 12:22:14 am
Of course you may.
PLEASE NO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO.

YAY!!! :D
I was hoping that would be the case.
I've found that if you limit yourself to just talking politics in you're area/ region/ State or Country, you lack real insight to the affairs of the world.
Like it or not, (and many in my country sadly don't want to) but one bullet shot on the other side of the world effects all of us.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 14 September, 2010, 12:22:39 am
So do we discuss the politics of the U.S. & A. too? or is it just Euro politics?


Only if you feel like burning the Quorn Qur'an.



Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Dreddzilla on 14 September, 2010, 12:26:02 am
So do we discuss the politics of the U.S. & A. too? or is it just Euro politics?


Only if you feel like burning the Quorn Qur'an.

Well they burn Bibles & the American Flag in Islamic countries so all's fair in love & war in my mind. :lol:
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 September, 2010, 12:35:06 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0&fmt=18
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SmallBlueThing on 14 September, 2010, 09:27:39 am
Interested in this new Irish blasphemy law, but nowhere near a working computer to Google it. Anyone care to sum it up?
SBT
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 14 September, 2010, 12:56:49 pm
whimper  :(

http://www.clareherald.com/news/national/2916-taoiseach-brian-cowen-hits-back-at-drunk-claim.html?lang=
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 14 September, 2010, 02:15:34 pm
Interested in this new Irish blasphemy law, but nowhere near a working computer to Google it. Anyone care to sum it up?
SBT

From Wikipedia - Read it and weep:

'In the Republic of Ireland, blasphemy is required to be prohibited by Article 40.6.1.i. of the 1937 Constitution. The common law offence of blasphemous libel was effectively replaced in 2009 by a new offence of "publication or utterance of blasphemous matter". The continued existence of a blasphemy offence is controversial, with proponents of freedom of speech and freedom of religion arguing it should be removed.'

Cunts, cunts, cunts.

(You have a computer that only visits the 2000ad webpage, then?)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 14 September, 2010, 02:42:55 pm
Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Be Fucked.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: COMMANDO FORCES on 14 September, 2010, 03:15:48 pm
I see that even in Cuba they are getting rid of quite a few public sector jobs (Radio 5live last night).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 14 September, 2010, 03:27:25 pm
Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Be Fucked.

Be Pure. BeVigilant. Bejaysus.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Richmond Clements on 14 September, 2010, 03:29:15 pm
Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Be Fucked.

Be Pure. BeVigilant. Bejaysus.

Be Pure. Be Vililant. Begorrah.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SmallBlueThing on 14 September, 2010, 04:51:16 pm
Cheers jayzus, that's appalling, and im glad to see that mine and my wife's decision to leave Ireland in 2003 because we didnt want our children brought up there hasnt proven to be an overreaction.
And no, i access this forum (and facebook) through my phone, and all other sites are either non-optimised or just too slow to deal with, on the mobile internet. My laptop sadly has killed itself, and its replacement wont be got until thursday. I was at work earlier, and my guys wouldn't have appreciated me using theirs.
SBT
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 14 September, 2010, 05:24:31 pm
Cheers jayzus, that's appalling, and im glad to see that mine and my wife's decision to leave Ireland in 2003 because we didnt want our children brought up there hasnt proven to be an overreaction.


It's still a better place to raise kids than most and with a tiny population. Just instill in them the need to overthrow their rulers more often.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 14 September, 2010, 05:49:46 pm
Cor! Are people still interested in politics, then?

They're going to privatise Royal Mail, you know.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 September, 2010, 07:15:35 pm
The government is floating plans to slash NHS Direct. They seem to want to drastically cut the number of nurses at the other end of the phone. They've even talked about scrapping the service altogether. But if we work together fast, we can make them think again.

These cuts won't save money [1] and will mean millions of ill people needing advice will be forced to go to casualty or a doctors' surgery, when they could have been treated at home via NHS Direct.

The government is still deciding what they can get away with. That means we've got a real chance to influence the debate. If our MPs hear from thousands of us this week it will send a strong signal that we don't want to see NHS Direct scrapped. That could be enough to tip the balance and protect the future of NHS Direct.

It's easy to write to your MP and tell them why you don't want NHS Direct cut - click here to send them a message:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/nhs-direct

There are plenty of politicians who want to chip away at the NHS. But they know they have to tread carefully or they'll face a massive public backlash. By floating these plans to scrap NHS Direct they're testing the water. If thousands of us speak out now against these stealth cuts we can make them back down.

E-mail your MP now and stand up for NHS Direct:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/nhs-direct

In the last two weeks, nearly 25,000 of us have come together to show politicians that they can't attack the NHS without facing a massive public outcry. Our map is full of inspiring stories of how the NHS has changed our lives: looking after us when we've been injured; delivering babies safe and sound; helping us to cope with problems that might mean we can't work or learn and, at the end of our lives, managing pain and comforting those left behind.

Now, we need to work together again to show that we can defend NHS Direct from cuts that will mean it can't look after its patients properly any more. Together, we can send a message to every single MP that we won't stand for NHS cuts, just like when we stopped the cuts to 6 Music and topslicing of the BBC.

E-mail your MP now to tell them to put a stop to cuts to NHS Direct - it only takes 2 minutes: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/nhs-direct

Thanks for being involved,

David, Hannah, Johnny and the 38 Degrees team

P.S. 38 Degrees members have already come up with lots of good ideas about how we can work together to influence the debate about the cuts. If you've got ideas, please add them to the Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/peoplepowerchange/) or add a comment on our blog (http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2010/09/14/cuts-what-should-38-degrees-do/)



Notes
[1] - NHS Direct saves the taxpayer £213 million a year by giving advice on the phone instead of at a hospital or doctors' surgery. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23871909-plans-to-scrap-nhs-direct-attacked.do
- Read more about the NHS Direct climbdown and nurses cut at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/09/nhs-direct-closure-health-politics
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 14 September, 2010, 07:17:24 pm
We're swimming against the tide and fighting back against the legal loan sharks. Since last Monday over 500 of you have written to your MP asking them to sign our Early Day Motion. Thanks to this pressure 90 MPs have signed, but we need to reach at least 100 by the end of the week. Can you help us today? Use our easy tool to write to your MP:

http://action.compassonline.org.uk/EDM660

Early Day Motions are useful tools to publicise issues and lobby the government but to have a real impact they need to have a large number of signatories. Our EDM, 660 now has 90 MPs supporting it but we need to be armed with the support of over 100 MPs when we go to Number 10 Downing Street next week.

EDM 660 calls on the government to 'End Legal Loan Sharking' by capping the cost of credit and providing alternative sources of affordable borrowing. You can help bring EDM 660 to your MP's attention by writing to them now. We have set up a quick and easy tool below to enable you to lobby your MP:

http://action.compassonline.org.uk/EDM660

This is a big month for the campaign. We are having motions debated at both Liberal Democrat and Labour Party conference. We are also meeting with the government to discuss our campaign. This is why it is important that we build up as much pressure as possible in the coming weeks. We hope you can help.

http://action.compassonline.org.uk/EDM660

Help us fight back and end legal loan sharking once and for all.

Gavin
General Secretary, Compass

P.S: If you want to do more than just the above check out our comprehensive action page on the End Legal Loan Sharking campaign website: http://www.endlegalloansharks.org.uk/?page_id=11
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Stan on 15 September, 2010, 03:58:29 am
So do we discuss the politics of the U.S. & A. too? or is it just Euro politics?


Only if you feel like burning the Quorn Qur'an.

Well they burn Bibles & the American Flag in Islamic countries so all's fair in love & war in my mind. :lol:

This isn't really a reply to your comment, which I agree with. I just thought it was something worth mentioning because they're connected.

Orthodox Jewish youths burn New Testaments in Or Yehuda
http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox-jewish-youths-burn-new-testaments-in-or-yehuda-1.246153

Muslims Block Bible-Burning In South Africa
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6728577-muslims-block-bibleburning-in-south-africa

I actually disagree with the banning of book burnings by private citizens but I suppose it's the thought that counts.

Now if politicians start burning books...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 15 September, 2010, 08:48:05 am
Quote
Cheers jayzus, that's appalling, and im glad to see that mine and my wife's decision to leave Ireland in 2003 because we didnt want our children brought up there hasnt proven to be an overreaction.

Nae tother a'ball.  Fortunately not everyone in Ireland is retarded enough to support this horrible idea:

'Michael Nugent, (Atheist Ireland)'s chair, said that it would challenge the law through the courts if it were charged with blasphemy.

Nugent said: "This new law is both silly and dangerous. It is silly because medieval religious laws have no place in a modern secular republic, where the criminal law should protect people and not ideas. And it is dangerous because it incentives religious outrage, and because Islamic states led by Pakistan are already using the wording of this Irish law to promote new blasphemy laws at UN level.

"We believe in the golden rule: that we have a right to be treated justly, and that we have a responsibility to treat other people justly. Blasphemy laws are unjust: they silence people in order to protect ideas. In a civilised society, people have a right to express and to hear ideas about religion even if other people find those ideas to be outrageous."'
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 15 September, 2010, 10:15:30 am
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e146/vgupload/VoteBiffo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Casshern on 15 September, 2010, 12:43:14 pm
I would vote for the above poster !
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 September, 2010, 01:20:59 pm
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e146/vgupload/VoteBiffo.jpg)

Brian Cowan is a complete and utter Buffoon and is as stupid as he looks.

Do yourselves a favor and stop voting for these idiots.

*

If NHS Direct saves the taxpayer 213 Million a year then why scrap it ??

Hold it a minute i think i know why.Its because those that run this country are Morons and their ideas of cost cutting are childish and simplistic because they obviously dont factor in that scrapping the scheme will not save money and cause many many adverse effects on the NHS.

If this is so obvious and is simple logic then why is it considered to be costcutting ?

Idiots.

This is proven by the fact that we are having to petition govt to stop legal loan sharking operations when if we had an intelligent govt instead of a bunch of morons then they would already be outlawed especially in this kind of economic climate thast leaves people wide open to exploitation but why stop there ??

Does this legislation also apply to the Bankster filth as well since they are a legal loansharking operation ??

Perhaps not now but sometime soon they will be removed because people are wising up to the scam and when that happens the Bankster Filth are going to be giving some very serious thought about what they are going to do and where they are going to go when the people have had enough because they have now gone way past the point of no return and there is more and more material coming out against them every day.


Like i have said many many times before if the UK and Ireland stopped paying cash to the EU year in year out then that would mean less cost cutting and not only that but the UK pays something in the region of 43 Billion per year in servicing the interest on its debts and guess who the interest payments go to ?

The money lenders/changers who own the banking system because fo4 some reason the govt cant issue its own currency.

We all know why that is or at least you should do by now.

This figure could rise to 70 billion a year but this is a projected figure that is perhaps being used to make spending cuts* seem inevitable but i wouldnt be surprised if its not far from the truth and again we simply do not know what the exact figures are.

The yearly payments to the EU seem to vary in the figures that are quoted from various sources from 5 billion per year to 55.755 billion per year.The simple fact is that the true figure is actually unknown unless you have access to the accounts of the EU but since they dont seem to keep accounts or have their accounts audited we simply do not know and not only that but official figures from this govt are not to be trusted like anything else to do with govt.

*New Liebour completely overfinanced and overstaffed and over just about everything else concerning the public sector anyway so a certain amount of costcutting within the public sector is justified and is very necessary and those that will lose their jobs in the public sector will cry about it but they will have to make their own way in the private sector the same as everyone else instead of suckling off the govt and having a sense of entitlement and if there are no jobs for them in the private sector we know why that is and its more than likely that the public sector workers supported Labour for 11 years which means that they themselves enabled and assisted the outsourcing of jobs and the shifting of the manufacturing base overseas which has created the unemployment problem and the fact that the UK doesnt produce enough GDP to become solvent ever again and you cant rebuild an economy based on services because you have to make things and then sell them and export them and right now that isnt happening and its unlikely to happen.

Its also curious why its always such an outcry against public sector jobs being lost but there are plenty in the private sector who have lost jobs and businesses and the media never focusess on them unless its yet another large scale manufaturer that is closing down its UK operations and moving overseas and that is always seen as something that is necessary or inevitable rather than being seen as a serious problem that needs to be adressed urgently as i have heard NOTHING from this fake Coalition govt about addressing this problem.

So in the meantime more jobs are lost which means less revenue to keep the country going which is worse for the economy and the govt just sits back and lets it all happen because they have this stupid fixation with "Service Economies".

Morons.

In a word we are F U C K E D and the economy isnt even being allowed to recover naturally as it is being constantly manipulated so that it gets worse and the recession/depression is being prolonged mostly because the banks were given our money which we pay interest on to lend but they are not lending.

My maths isnt always that good but 20 to 25 percent of those of working age in the US are now unemployed.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 15 September, 2010, 01:40:43 pm
Brian Cowan is a complete and utter Buffoon and is as stupid as he looks.

Do yourselves a favor and stop voting for these idiots.

I've never voted for those idiots, doesn't seem to keep them away.  I do however disagree that Cowen is stupid - he's a bright bloke with a long history of writing or at least editing his own speeches (which is disturbingly rare according to my Civil Service mates), and he's refreshingly unspun and unscripted.  Unfortunately he's entirely the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time, and has both inherited and been party to creating a fucking catastrophe.  He mumbles, barks, looks miserable and irritated at the same time, and thus instead of directing the mood of the country in a positive direction he just amplifies it by looking exactly how we all feel. 

That he gave an earl-morning interview hung over is neither here nor there with regard to his competence or character, but that he wasn't aware of or didn't care about the bitterness that behaviour would engender amongst people who desperately want him to be working his highly-paid arse off 24-7 to pull us out of the mire... well that's just symptomatic of someone who has lost the plot.  That old celtic stuff about  the health and fertility of the land depending on the character and person of the king isn't far off the mark.  Brian has broken more than one of the geasa that circumscribe his office.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 September, 2010, 04:15:40 pm
Brian Cowan is a complete and utter Buffoon and is as stupid as he looks.

Do yourselves a favor and stop voting for these idiots.

I've never voted for those idiots, doesn't seem to keep them away.  I do however disagree that Cowen is stupid - he's a bright bloke with a long history of writing or at least editing his own speeches (which is disturbingly rare according to my Civil Service mates), and he's refreshingly unspun and unscripted.  Unfortunately he's entirely the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time, and has both inherited and been party to creating a fucking catastrophe.  He mumbles, barks, looks miserable and irritated at the same time, and thus instead of directing the mood of the country in a positive direction he just amplifies it by looking exactly how we all feel. 

That he gave an earl-morning interview hung over is neither here nor there with regard to his competence or character, but that he wasn't aware of or didn't care about the bitterness that behaviour would engender amongst people who desperately want him to be working his highly-paid arse off 24-7 to pull us out of the mire... well that's just symptomatic of someone who has lost the plot.  That old celtic stuff about  the health and fertility of the land depending on the character and person of the king isn't far off the mark.  Brian has broken more than one of the geasa that circumscribe his office.

Fair enough what you say but i do recall how he was suckered by Manuel Barosso where he looked like he was being led astray which of course he was.The problem is much bigger than Brian Cowan and Brian Cowan cant be expected to fix it and obsessing over PMs etc doesnt get anyone anywhere but i do feel that people who dont understand politics have too much faith invested in them without understanding what is really going on and they go wrong when they all blame Brian Cowan for everything going wrong when again there is a lot more to it than that.




Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 15 September, 2010, 04:40:23 pm
Yayyy! Good news at last. Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster for small mercies.

http://www.build.ie/national_news.asp?newsid=116493 (http://www.build.ie/national_news.asp?newsid=116493)

Most heartening quote:
Quote
At the time of writing, Mr Lenihan's twitter page is receiving statement's of criticism and condemnation at the rate of approximately one per second, with one tweeter reffering to the minister as "an ignorant fool" and another asking "Can you please say which other 'theories' need debunking in new books? How do you stand on gravity?
(Pity about the journalist's spelling, but it's the thought that counts.)

Good to see that not everyone is as fucking thick as the Minister.

(Reminds me of a Public Enemy gig I went to see in Dublin years ago, where Chuck Dee shouted out 'Do you believe in God?' expectantly, only to be met with a silence punctuated with a few quiet 'no's.  'Fuck it, I do', said Chuck, glumly.)




Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 September, 2010, 04:47:46 pm
Not every Christian believes in the literal translation of the Bible like Creationists.

I just thought i would point that out.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 15 September, 2010, 04:49:34 pm
Not every Christian believes in the literal translation of the Bible like Creationists.

I just thought i would point that out.


I realise that. Personally, I don't believe in either Christianity or Creationism.

EDIT: In fact, as far as I know, even the Catholic Church supports the theory of evolution.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 15 September, 2010, 05:15:16 pm
Not every Christian believes in the literal translation of the Bible like Creationists.

I just thought i would point that out.


I realise that. Personally, I don't believe in either Christianity or Creationism.

EDIT: In fact, as far as I know, even the Catholic Church supports the theory of evolution.

The Catholic Church supports a lot of other things but i wont go into that. ;)

I wasnt directing that comment at you personally but there is a lot of ridicule directed at Christians where they are all labelled as ridiculous Creationists which i dont agree with.

I am a devout Agnostic in the sense that i dont know for sure if there is anything else rather than not knowing if there is any kind of God in the abstract sense as the term "God" is completely abstract.

It must be very difficult to have faith in God when you look at what goes on on this planet and why evil always seems to prevail and that in itself makes me question the existence of God but i have to say despite the fact i am not a Christian i would rather live in a country that has Christian values in the moderate sense than a hardcore Atheist State but again i wont go into that now.

Unsold UK Pope tickets :


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0911/1224278638530.html

 :lol:

Its interesting that the Catholic church wants a payment of 20 quid per ticket but its not surprising really but its not like they are short of cash.

It must cost a lot to keep the PopeMobile/Ice Cream van going.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 15 September, 2010, 11:08:42 pm
Quote
I wasnt directing that comment at you personally but there is a lot of ridicule directed at Christians where they are all labelled as ridiculous Creationists which i dont agree with.

No worries, chief, I agree with you there - as far as my lack of belief goes, Jesus's divinity isn't too far behind Creationism, though to be fair Creationism can pretty be scientifically proven wrong.

Quote
Its interesting that the Catholic church wants a payment of 20 quid per ticket but its not surprising really but its not like they are short of cash.

It must cost a lot to keep the PopeMobile/Ice Cream van going.

Heh.  There was a letter into Viz once referring to the current pope's revision of (I think) the 7 deadly sins -

'I see "amassing huge amounts of wealth" is now on the list. It's a good thing hypocrisy isn't there too, or they'd be doubly fucked.'
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 15 September, 2010, 11:32:08 pm

That he gave an earl-morning interview hung over is neither here nor there with regard to his competence or character, but that he wasn't aware of or didn't care about the bitterness that behaviour would engender amongst people who desperately want him to be working his highly-paid arse off 24-7 to pull us out of the mire... well that's just symptomatic of someone who has lost the plot.  That old celtic stuff about  the health and fertility of the land depending on the character and person of the king isn't far off the mark.  Brian has broken more than one of the geasa that circumscribe his office.

Quite right.

The drinking is not the real gripe but there is a media and political putsch to get him out, a crude one, but it's happening. Cowen is well known as a heavy drinker, depending on who you talk to, he may have a drink problem (the wife beating rumours once started to flow about Bertie but were nipped in the bud). His "enemies" are using it as a another stick to beat him with. If Cowen didn't have the brains to cancel the interview knowing he sounded like shit and would give off a bad impression (did no one advise him?) why would anyone want him deciding on the future of the country? He doesn't give a shit about how he comes across. Stupid or not, he's our Boris Yeltsin/Gordon Brown.


if Cowen had proved himself as even half a talent in his job none of this would matter.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 16 September, 2010, 07:20:20 pm
Inspirational- this man will show us what to do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3vEOSkk5AM

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 16 September, 2010, 08:24:16 pm
Good vid on this page, well worth a watch:  http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Hoagy on 17 September, 2010, 02:13:16 am
How much is this recession affecting the sci-fi-horror-fan dollar?
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 17 September, 2010, 06:46:33 am
How much is this recession affecting the sci-fi-horror-fan dollar?

The Four Colour Dollar?  A lot.  In my case, average monthly spend on things Comics/2000AD/Gaming/Star Wars/SF two or three years ago would have been ca. €90-120.  Now it's €25, and that's all 2000AD.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 17 September, 2010, 03:02:52 pm
The last two Megazines were almost a tenner in euros. It's treading a fine line with me at the moment as it stands - not its fault it's a tenner, but I'm beginning to wonder if its worth it when we're all hard up
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 17 September, 2010, 03:06:09 pm
Dreams are important in hard times, and Twoothy & the Meg are chock full of them.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 17 September, 2010, 03:15:02 pm
Aye, true, I'm sticking by them anyway - though with the Meg (apart from the fine latest issue) the odd time, a sense of loyalty is what keeps me buying it
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: SmallBlueThing on 17 September, 2010, 03:28:22 pm
The prog and the meg are part of my monthly 'budget', so there's no chance of letting them go without a fight. I spend less on comics than 'normal people' do on booze in the average month, and that's the defence i use when my expenditure is criticised. Not drinking (except on very special occasions) does wonders to my balance sheet. I use the library for general comics-reading, buy the majority of books cheaply second hand, never buy dvds unless under a fiver and even then only rarely, and never buy cds. Im cutting our expenditure right to the bone, so i reckon as long as my wife still gets wine and chocolate, my kids still get their comics and i get the prog and the meg and a few sundries, we're placed to ride this out without going mad.
SBT
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 17 September, 2010, 03:34:16 pm
I salute your indefatigability, Sir!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 17 September, 2010, 03:35:20 pm
http://heyilike.fansociety.com/p.php?p=37321
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 17 September, 2010, 07:31:45 pm
The last two Megazines were almost a tenner in euros. It's treading a fine line with me at the moment as it stands - not its fault it's a tenner, but I'm beginning to wonder if its worth it when we're all hard up

Too true.  I handed over €12.70 for my Prog and Meg combo today.  That's 20c more than my entire disposable income for the week, so not even a cup of coffee or a stick of chewing gum 'til next Friday - still worth it, but it's a lot of dosh.  I'm saving reading the Meg for a few days.  Scary times.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 17 September, 2010, 07:39:08 pm
Shit, TB, sorry to hear that. No wonder you're good at crosswords. Still clutching at employment myself but I'll be out of a job by Christmas; the plan is to hop on a plane to Australia after that and start afresh. Not as easy at 35 as for the younger folk, but I'll give it a whirl
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 17 September, 2010, 07:51:58 pm
Too true.  I handed over €12.70 for my Prog and Meg combo today.  That's 20c more than my entire disposable income for the week, so not even a cup of coffee or a stick of chewing gum 'til next Friday - still worth it, but it's a lot of dosh.  I'm saving reading the Meg for a few days.  Scary times.



The last two Megazines were almost a tenner in euros. It's treading a fine line with me at the moment as it stands - not its fault it's a tenner, but I'm beginning to wonder if its worth it when we're all hard up


There are always options, why don't you buy it from clickwheel? It's less than a fiver for two issues of the Meg, €2.38 each. €1.78 for a prog...and you'll be able to carry them around on the ipads we'll all have (eventually).
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 17 September, 2010, 08:00:58 pm
Quote
There are always options, why don't you buy it from clickwheel? It's less than a fiver for two issues of the Meg, €2.38 each. €1.78 for a prog...and you'll be able to carry them around on the ipads we'll all have (eventually).


Hmmm... not a bad idea at all, that. Might give it a try
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 17 September, 2010, 08:03:50 pm
Once you give up the lure of dead trees, after a while you won't miss it too much, and it takes up a lot less space. If you go to OZ, clickwheel is definitely a more attractive option.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 17 September, 2010, 08:05:57 pm
Once you give up the lure of dead trees, after a while you won't miss it too much, and it takes up a lot less space.

Pretty good idea, GM.  I couldn't live without my paper Prog, too much of a ritual for me, but the Meg (still a newcomer to my routine, after 20 years) would do nicely digitally.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 17 September, 2010, 08:11:26 pm
I've often gone to Easons and seen the prog, I flick through, bringing back that seven year old's experience of the visceral rush of ink strokes, but then I remember the amount of care and space needed to keep them and it goes, but I often wonder...
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 17 September, 2010, 10:48:22 pm
"the lure of dead trees"

I've gone all mystical and gothic

in a good way
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: maryanddavid on 17 September, 2010, 11:49:25 pm
I paid over €20 in the newsagents on thurs for our weekly round up, 2000ad, JD Meg Heat, The Beano, Ben 10, and a Nursery title.
The meg really does put up the cost, and €20 out of one week budget is too much. Especially since at work we are been threatened  for the last six months with more paycuts, 3 day week, etc etc.
I do feel, and this is only anecdotally, that some rural areas havent been  hit as bad as urban areas. The company I work for has outlets all over the country and the biggest sales drop have all been the urban areas. Obviously there isint the population density for unemployment to have as big affect, but the so called tiger never came across the Shannon with as much ferocity as the rest of the ocuntry, mayby except for Galway.
Even though I dont like the idea of a digital comic, if the meg continued at that price, there wouldnt be much option.

David
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 17 September, 2010, 11:54:07 pm
If you all want to give me a pound per week, I can PM you the details of what happens in the prog.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: House of Usher on 18 September, 2010, 12:35:42 pm
My subscription has lapsed. Renewing it for 2000ad only might have saved me £12 a year, but instead I went for the false economy of picking it up every week from a newsagent's. At least this way they won't be crumpled, torn or sodden.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: TordelBack on 18 September, 2010, 01:37:16 pm
At least this way they won't be crumpled, torn or sodden.

F'ing part-time posties!
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 18 September, 2010, 01:58:17 pm
You can still get that authentic crumpled, torn and sodden look if you employ the services of your local newsagents' youthful Delivery Division.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 18 September, 2010, 06:58:22 pm
Just to steer the thread back to politics again, I would like to respond to the pope;s recent comments comparing atheism to Nazism by saying it was a little bit rich for a former Hitler Youth member - though it's not a fair argument.

However, i will quote Hitler himself here: "The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. ... We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people."

Also it was the Catholic Church, not any atheist group, that had to apologise for their collusion with the Nazi party in WW2.

Lastly, seeing as the pope has compared me and some of my best friends to Nazis, I think politeness is out the window:  The sooner people see through this small-minded , bigoted old man and look at the real world, the better things will be for all of us.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 18 September, 2010, 09:50:52 pm
  The sooner people see through this small-minded , bigoted old man and look at the real world, the better things will be for all of us.



The Catholic church is a totally corrupt organisation like just like everything else and this is the organisation that silences the victims of child abuse and which protects the perpetrators of it within the Catholic church which also has a slush fund in which to pay off the victims of child abuse.There are lots of other issues as well but the child abuse issue is the main focus on the Catholic church.

So Ratzinger is in no position to lecture anyone about morality.

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: Peter Wolf on 21 September, 2010, 06:21:20 pm
Govt to seize all paychecks :

Govt Idiocy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcgJnL6s2JY

It is only a proposal/consultation paper but its laughable because it is the Inland Revenue that are mainly responsible for the taxation fiasco so their solution for you to give them all of your pay only for it to be returned less tax deductions is just stupid unless they wish to deduct arbitary sums of cash as and when they feel like it.
 
Why is it necessary to give them cash only for it to be returned again ?

Idiocy and i just dont see it that employers are responsible for the mess within the tax system but of course the govt will shift the blame to compensate for its own inadequacies when what it is really about is Collectivism with the immovable edifice of govt at the centre of it which reinforces the message that you work for them.

Govt is God - Govt is God - Govt is God......

They just dont like not having complete control of your pay so this is their solution and they particularly dont like it that people were not paying incorrect tax bills.They hate that so instead we have this proposal of moving money about backwards and forwards which is going to cause all kinds of problems and anyway it will still be the Inland Revenue that will be handling it all as they do already except now there will be 30 million BACS payments every week all handled by the Inland Revenue so what could possibly go wrong* ??

 ::) :lol: :lol:

*The Inland Revenue still run Windows 3.1 apparently  :lol:

As usual the PAYE taxpayers are forced onto the front line.

Central Planning you cant trust particularly as they couldnt organise a cup of Coffee.

They just love to get their hands on your money as there are the useless scrounging parasites who own the banking system want their cut of your earnings as well dont forget.This proposal also sends out the message that no one else can be trusted except Govt when in actual fact the reverse is true and its a bit like being treated like children by the All-seeing-All-knowing Nanny State who will look after your money.

All your money is collected into a Holding/Escrow account and its another way for them to have control over your money and if the system crashes which it WILL then those without any savings to fall back on will be Fucked and this in turn will start a cascade of missed payments which in turn will create more chaos.

So what will this solve n the face of it ?

Nothing but no doubt part of this workload will be farmed out to the private sector who will then leave all your bank details lying around here and there.

This is going to cost but the object of the exercise isnt to save money as its all about control.

The Govt are wary of a Tax revolt so they are not taking chances and this also gives the Govt another opportunity to do what it likes.

Still i have a clear conscience as i didnt vote for these Maggots.
Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: johnnystress on 21 September, 2010, 08:56:15 pm
The sooner people see through this small-minded , bigoted old man and look at the real world, the better things will be for all of us.

http://countmeout.ie/

Title: Re: The Political Thread
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 September, 2010, 09:27:18 pm

http://countmeout.ie/




All ready done that, had the chat with the Assistant Chancellor (sounds like the Empire doesn't it) at the Chacellery in Drumcondra. It may not mean much -if you're not a believer or practitioner anyway- but it's better to do it in as much that it means the numbers on their books get reduced and they get a more relative count of how many they can actually consider to be believers living in Ireland rather than most people staying on file as unacknowledged nonbelievers and continue to make up the Church's claimed numbers by remaining on the baptismal register.
Title: Re: The Pol