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General Chat => Film & TV => Topic started by: Proudhuff on 25 August, 2014, 06:31:27 pm

Title: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Proudhuff on 25 August, 2014, 06:31:27 pm
Sorry if this has been popped up here already:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/194429923/star-trek-axanar (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/194429923/star-trek-axanar)


But thought you might likee
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: TordelBack on 26 August, 2014, 01:43:11 pm
Amazing achievement.  Good concept, lovely SFX, designs and costuming, and an impressive cast.  But man that script is boring.  Really good writing always seems to be the hardest part of any endeavor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Richmond Clements on 26 August, 2014, 03:45:54 pm
Quote
Good concept, lovely SFX, designs and costuming, and an impressive cast.  But man that script is boring. Classic Star Trek. 


FTFY.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: TordelBack on 26 August, 2014, 03:51:41 pm
Quote
Good concept, lovely SFX, designs and costuming, and an impressive cast.  But man that script is boring. Classic Star Trek. 


FTFY.

Heh!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Devons Daddy on 01 September, 2014, 03:27:25 am
This is now on my radar!!!
Shall throw this up on the big screen later today
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Tiplodocus on 01 September, 2014, 01:44:30 pm
Looked pretty darned good on big telly.

I must be more forgiving\in a good mood because that held my attention and had me excited for the main feature!
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Goaty on 17 October, 2014, 04:43:48 pm
Now there is another one!

Star Trek - Horizon: Official Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWD9RMp_Gfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWD9RMp_Gfk)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: GordonR on 17 October, 2014, 05:01:25 pm
It still sounds better than that Captain Warf series that Michael Dorn's been desperately trying to peddle.

"A new Trek series with a secondary character as lead, starring, written and conceived by me, one-track career actor Michael Dorn!"

(See also Richard Hatch's alternative Battlestar Galactica reboot/sequel.)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Daveycandlish on 17 October, 2014, 05:16:32 pm
But I really would have preferred Richard Hatch's idea for BSG. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 03 January, 2016, 09:17:58 am
Paramount have put the foot down on this one.

http://1701news.com/node/980/axanar-will-ruin-fan-trek-everyone.html (http://1701news.com/node/980/axanar-will-ruin-fan-trek-everyone.html)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: GordonR on 03 January, 2016, 10:04:05 am
I believe Rebellion had to shut down at least one Dredd 'fan' film production that was actually a bunch of chancers looking to raise Kickstarter money on the back of something they didn't have any rights to.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 03 January, 2016, 10:27:30 am
Yep, it was some movie judge death short being pitched by a couple of guys who do a lot of cosplay videos at conventions.

There was a bit of 'we've got permission' flying around at the time, which I thought was unlikely...

I've a vague recollection of a couple of others, but that was the main one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 03 January, 2016, 04:02:04 pm
That article is a bit schizo and lacking in facts and context - for instance, it doesn't actually mention what the specific problem with Axanar was, though this is probably deliberate to justify the panic-mongering about other fan productions the article seems determined to push.  If you check Youtube and the like, mind, Star Trek Continues and New Voyages are still available, and Axanar-level fan movie Horizon still seems to be in production.

Mighty Godking covers all the ins and outs here: http://mightygodking.com/2016/01/02/the-axanar-faq/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-axanar-faq but the short answer to why Axanar got the axe chop seems to be that the producer was using the money to set up an independent studio, and was more or less selling Trek merchandise, too.  You missed a trick there, Steve.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 03 January, 2016, 04:15:25 pm
Haha, well Dan got Planet Replicas out of it, just a bit of fun on my side.

Hard to say where the line was crossed compared to prelude - reading comments here that the director of Prelude bailed because of concerns about financial iffiness with the producer.

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-trek-crowdfunded-movie-axanar-sued-1201669522/ (http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-trek-crowdfunded-movie-axanar-sued-1201669522/)

I think it's just the sheer scale, when you start to get the producer paying himself a salary, it all gets a bit murky.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 03 January, 2016, 04:48:42 pm
Dan got Planet Replicas out of it

/phones Rebellion's solicitors
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 22 May, 2016, 11:03:23 am
Lawsuit has (or is about to be) dropped.

http://screenrant.com/star-trek-axanar-update-paramount-lawsuit-dropped/ (http://screenrant.com/star-trek-axanar-update-paramount-lawsuit-dropped/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 17 June, 2016, 09:10:37 am
Or is it?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/16/the-star-trek-axanar-lawsuit-is-not-over/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/16/the-star-trek-axanar-lawsuit-is-not-over/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 17 June, 2016, 11:00:18 am
Or is it?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/16/the-star-trek-axanar-lawsuit-is-not-over/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/16/the-star-trek-axanar-lawsuit-is-not-over/)

Does seem a bit mean but if you've spent millions on a franchise you hardly want someone making a web series that makes money for them rather than you. They should make Axanar partners and use that relationship to test out ideas and story lines that reflect the Trek Universe but which don't interfere with any continuity shit. If you have a controversial story perhaps it would be better to test it out on the web rather than waste thousands on scripts/ footage only to have the money men say it's 'too expensive, Hail Hydra' anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 17 June, 2016, 11:06:51 am
I'm with Paramount/CBS on this one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 17 June, 2016, 11:19:29 am
I think the fact that they haven't gone after anyone else - not even the fan productions funded through Kickstarter - tells you that CBS/Paramount aren't just being jerks about this and have specific problems with this production in particular.  The fact that they've been selling Star Trek merchandise might have something to do with it, as might the fact that the money raised for the production of the movie - raised using the Star Trek brand - has been used to set up a rival studio specialising in streaming content.
I'm behind fan-productions 100% and if the ban-hammer had come down on Star Trek Continues I'd probably boycott CBS/Paramount for life, but Axanar is kind of taking the piss.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 17 June, 2016, 12:30:32 pm
The studio has a pretty strong case.

"Finally, several weeks ago, Galanter decided to take a proactive route, and reached out to Loeb & Loeb, the law firm representing the studios in the lawsuit. He shared everything he knew about Axanar with the lawyers, and hung up the phone feeling much better.

"I don't know if I was ever a Doe, but I don't care, to be honest with you," he said. "If they want to call me to testify, I will be an excellent plaintiffs' witness. And I have a lot to say."

The biggest piece is what Galanter says he can't understand Peters denying — that "Star Trek: Axanar" was indeed Star Trek."


http://1701news.com/node/1177/node/1201/abrams-axanar-lawsuit-going-away.html


Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 23 June, 2016, 07:00:23 pm
Paramount have issued guidelines for future fan films.

5 is pretty brutal.

The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees

http://www.startrek.com/fan-films (http://www.startrek.com/fan-films)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 23 June, 2016, 07:21:16 pm
Overly-specific, and yet somehow also nebulous: what does "amateur" actually mean in legal terms?  How does any of that stop "parody" productions that not only use official Star Trek merchandise and logos to generate money and which are openly sold as physical and streaming media, but often contain pornography and other filth that drags the brand into disrepute?
They're perfectly within their rights, of course, but it seems too far to wipe out pretty much every fan production you've heard of as well as the dozens - likely hundreds - of fan-made cgi movies/series built using game engines for Star Trek Online that will be affected because they come in more than two parts or last longer than 30 minutes.

I guess that's me done with CBS/Paramount.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 23 June, 2016, 07:29:03 pm
I want to see one done adhering rigidly to these guidelines to show how fucking restrictive they are.

Still it's Peters and the Axanar crew that shit in the jacuzzi in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 23 June, 2016, 08:41:31 pm
In can't include 'profanity, nudity' or 'depictions of illegal activity.' Bang goes my GoT version of Trek. ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 23 June, 2016, 09:13:25 pm
I would also point out that the NuTrek movies feature profanity and sexually suggestive material like when Kirk grabs Uhura's boobs, or when he hides under her bed watching her undress.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 23 June, 2016, 11:04:47 pm
Overly-specific, and yet somehow also nebulous: what does "amateur" actually mean in legal terms?  How does any of that stop "parody" productions that not only use official Star Trek merchandise and logos to generate money and which are openly sold as physical and streaming media, but often contain pornography and other filth that drags the brand into disrepute?
They're perfectly within their rights, of course, but it seems too far to wipe out pretty much every fan production you've heard of as well as the dozens - likely hundreds - of fan-made cgi movies/series built using game engines for Star Trek Online that will be affected because they come in more than two parts or last longer than 30 minutes.

I guess that's me done with CBS/Paramount.


This is what happens when corporate lawyers get involved.

Unfortunately to avoid exploitation of their property, CBS/Paramount were forced to put things down in writing, so naturally, to protect themselves from some unforeseen circumstances that could arise from future productions or legal cases out of their control, they made the rules more restrictive to cover all the bases and their arses.

All because some mad-cunt "fan" believes he has the right to the Star Trek license and ruined it for everyone.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 23 June, 2016, 11:10:09 pm
All because some mad-cunt "fan" believes he has the right to the Star Trek license and ruined it for everyone.

Yeah. This. I'm not one for blindly supporting massive corporate interests, but this one really smacks of someone taking the piss and buggering it up for everyone else.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 23 June, 2016, 11:11:16 pm
A bit more from the guy who was involved with Prelude to Axanar before he walked (along with a few others).

https://www.facebook.com/gossbook/posts/10153712534230732 (https://www.facebook.com/gossbook/posts/10153712534230732)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Grugz on 24 June, 2016, 03:17:24 pm
I would also point out that the NuTrek movies feature profanity and sexually suggestive material like when Kirk grabs Uhura's boobs, or when he hides under her bed watching her undress.


Oh,Kirk! I thought you were posting another of thryllseekers typical days
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steven Sterlacchini on 24 June, 2016, 06:44:07 pm
All because some mad-cunt "fan" believes he has the right to the Star Trek license and ruined it for everyone.

Indeed.

IF Paramount's guidelines became the bench mark and IF people obeyed them, that would be the end of 'pro looking' fan films.

Paramount's lawyers were basically backed into a corner, so they only had one possible, blanket, response.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 18 November, 2016, 08:03:11 am
via Joe Soap looks like the main bod from Axanar used crowdsourced funds to pay for things that weren't quite to do with the fan film...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/CBSvsAxanar/permalink/1367027803308586/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/CBSvsAxanar/permalink/1367027803308586/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: TordelBack on 18 November, 2016, 08:53:23 am
Hoooleee sheet. That's some champion embezzling right there, even for a Kickstarter. Lad should have saved himself a load of trouble and got into politics, this sort of thing is part of the standard contract.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 18 November, 2016, 10:13:31 am

It's also revealed for the first time that Peters "attempted to meet with Netflix to become a producer of Star Trek productions."


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/star-trek-fan-film-lawsuit-boldly-goes-no-star-trek-lawsuit-has-gone-before-948252

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Dandontdare on 19 November, 2016, 12:15:12 am
This is sounding more and more like outright embezzlement rather than 'crowdfunding goes wrong'
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 19 November, 2016, 07:56:35 am
What's astonishing is that he's still got plenty of backers sticking up for him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 19 November, 2016, 08:46:47 am
Crooks, particularly fraudsters are very persuasive since they've spent a lifetime perfecting the art of deceit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 19 November, 2016, 09:21:43 am
I can understand the not wanting to admit to being suckered, and still living in denial - It's the 'CBS/Paramount hate the fans' stuff.

'CBS/Paramount don't own Star Trek, the fans do' is absolutely delusional.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 19 November, 2016, 01:24:09 pm
What's hilarious is that this was all redacted info not intended for public consumption as it would clearly damage the Axanar Producer/defendant's reputation.

Unfortunately, for the defendant, when someone copy and pasted text from the court document PDFs to another text app, the text beneath the blackened, redacted parts was revealed.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 19 November, 2016, 01:47:50 pm
There were rumblings of him taking action out against them because of that.

I'm disappointed that there aren't tales of him paying strippers to paint themselves green.

Or tribble abuse.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 19 November, 2016, 03:33:13 pm
CBS don't hate Star Trek or Star Trek fans - they hate Star Trek creators, and anyone who wants to make television (according to Bryan Fuller).
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 19 November, 2016, 04:01:06 pm
What's astonishing is that he's still got plenty of backers sticking up for him.

I think that's desperate hope. Prelude to Axanar was genuinely good, and folk really want to see a decent Star Trek film.

I back quite a lot of Kickstarters, mostly for roleplaying games. I have a fairly strict rule that I never back anything where I feel there's genuine risk and I never pledge more than I can risk losing. I've only come close to losing out once, and even that was resolved favourably.

It was because of the risk that I didn't back Axanar on Kickstarter. I mean, Prelude looked really, really good. Tony Todd's performance as Ramirez and the scripting of his speech in Archer Arena frankly sold it to me. But, hey, it was pretty obvious that someone was going to come down hard on this.

The Kickstarter took place in July/August 2014 and raised something over half a million dollars. It was also stated at the time they were going have another round of fundraising.

August 2015 and we have the Indiegogo crowdfunder. I figure, hey, last time they raised a huge amount of money, and it's been an entire year in which no legal action has been taken. Surely, if there was a problem then the lawyers would have been sent in long before now. I decide the take the risk. The campaign finished on August 17th.

On August 25th, CBS gets upset.

I'm a little disappointed, but like I said I don't pledge money I'm not prepared to risk losing. Fair enough. I've backed 34 crowdfunders and this is my first loss.

What annoys me, though, is not that the IP owners have asserted their rights. What annoys me is that they didn't do it during the whole year between the two crowdfunders, or at least at some point during the second one, rather than waiting until after fans had pledged another half million.

Regards,

Robin

Oh, and you were after tribble abuse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUxeRouCx9c
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 19 November, 2016, 04:58:10 pm
Maybe they thought it would collapse on its own.

I'm not sure at what point during the kickstarter that Tony Todd walked - there seemed to be a trickle of people involved with Prelude who left for various reasons.

CBS only know for sure why they held off, maybe it was easier for a possible lawsuit to give him enough rope before they went after them.

Bearing in mind how much of a fuss he's kicked up, I doubt he would have paid any more attention even if it had come up earlier.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 19 November, 2016, 05:08:02 pm
Maybe they thought it would collapse on its own.

Possibly, but that's not how you protect IP.

Quote
I'm not sure at what point during the kickstarter that Tony Todd walked - there seemed to be a trickle of people involved with Prelude who left for various reasons.

I don't know either. I only discovered this after the lawsuit. I almost certainly wouldn't have backed had I know.

Quote
CBS only know for sure why they held off, maybe it was easier for a possible lawsuit to give him enough rope before they went after them.

Again, possibly. But if half a million in the bank and the stated intent of another crowdfunder wasn't enough rope then one would almost think they doubted their rights.

Quote
Bearing in mind how much of a fuss he's kicked up, I doubt he would have paid any more attention even if it had come up earlier.

Agreed. Own worst enemy, and all that.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 05 January, 2017, 11:41:26 am
Loses fair use case and moves to jury trial

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/05/star-trek-fan-film-loses-fair-use-case-moves-to-jury-trial/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/05/star-trek-fan-film-loses-fair-use-case-moves-to-jury-trial/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Dandontdare on 05 January, 2017, 01:31:41 pm
Loses fair use case and moves to jury trial

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/05/star-trek-fan-film-loses-fair-use-case-moves-to-jury-trial/ (https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/05/star-trek-fan-film-loses-fair-use-case-moves-to-jury-trial/)

that piece ends : "Here's hoping Peters' peers don't come down on him too hard for loving Star Trek too much."

Or ... here's hoping they come down on him like a ton of bricks before he ruins the fan-film industry for ebverybody
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 20 January, 2017, 08:33:00 pm
There's a resolution apparently - now 2x15 minute shorts + some other legal requirements, not sure what money is actually left to make it?

http://www.fangirlconfessions.com/2017/01/axanar-reaches-resolution-cbs-paramount-now-go/ (http://www.fangirlconfessions.com/2017/01/axanar-reaches-resolution-cbs-paramount-now-go/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 20 January, 2017, 09:13:13 pm


Settled out of court mere days after CBS said they would make all the financials public - which of course would reveal there's no money left.

He'll have to curb crowdfunding his lifestyle down to $50,000 chunks.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 20 January, 2017, 10:41:03 pm
Guessing all the pro actors are out as well, if it's abiding by Paramount's revised guidelines?

I'll be surprised if it's little more than what Prelude was.

Of course you've also got the backers who put money into it expecting a feature...
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 04:55:19 am

There's a donor who donated more than $15,000. Totally screwed.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 10:09:01 am
A real shame for future fan films. I watched the Star Trek Phase Two episode Kitumba a while back, and despite some so-so acting it was, in many ways, as good as an original series episode.

Peters has clearly been the problem here, but at the same time fan films have been becoming so well executed that sooner or later some companies were bound to put their foot down. And despite whatever financial shenanigans Peters may have been up to, Prelude to Axenar and what it meant for Axenar itself appealed to many fans because it demonstrated a better understanding of the setting than the actual owners. Peters was the justification, and no doubt a legitimate one, but CBS was running scared.

Fifteen minutes seems calculated to make it harder to tell stories, which seems deliberately mean. That said, 2000AD has been telling good stories in six pages for decades. Maybe this time limit will create tighter scripts.


Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 21 January, 2017, 10:38:26 am

What annoys me, though, is not that the IP owners have asserted their rights. What annoys me is that they didn't do it during the whole year between the two crowdfunders, or at least at some point during the second one, rather than waiting until after fans had pledged another half million.



My cynical mind thinks the plan might have been to allow as many funders as possible to lose money so as to put them off any similar enterprises in the future.



Fifteen minutes seems calculated to make it harder to tell stories, which seems deliberately mean. That said, 2000AD has been telling good stories in six pages for decades. Maybe this time limit will create tighter scripts.


I like the idea that shorter stories might be better stories. Restrictions can lead to imaginative solutions, what with necessity being the mother of invention and all that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 12:26:49 pm
My cynical mind thinks the plan might have been to allow as many funders as possible to lose money so as to put them off any similar enterprises in the future.


The exact same settlement offer was made to Axanar last March but it was Peters who pushed it this far down the line. It didn't matter anyway, he'd all ready pissed most of the money away and probably would've continued to do more crowdfunding to build his commercial studio had CBS/Paramount not stepped in.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 21 January, 2017, 12:59:23 pm
Furry nuff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 02:32:57 pm
My cynical mind thinks the plan might have been to allow as many funders as possible to lose money so as to put them off any similar enterprises in the future.


The exact same settlement offer was made to Axanar last March ...

That's after the kickstarters, so Shark's point still stands. Cynical it may be, but it would go some way to explaining why CBS waited until two kickstarters were over, with a yearlong gap between them, before sending in the lawyers. I mean seriously, an entire year? And seven days after the second one, not during?

We can all agree that Peters is an arse and we can all agree the CBS/Paramount/whoever have the right to protect their IP. However, I still think there are questions worth asking regarding how slow they were to react and why they waited until after the money was taken when it was quite obvious how well the fundraising was going.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 21 January, 2017, 02:45:58 pm
The first kickstarter for prelude?

I guess at that stage, Peters wasn't trying to set up a studio, or sell unlicensed merchandise http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=merchandise (http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=merchandise)

Maybe they thought it would implode before the second kickstarter was completed, or maybe they'd just had enough of him taking the piss.

Their IP, their call.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 21 January, 2017, 03:11:45 pm
There have been other Trek Kickstarters, with Star Trek Continues dubbing theirs "A Kirkstarter", but those productions - while technically just as illegal as Axanar - played nice and no-one profited from them - arguably the opposite is true, as the likes of Vic Mignogna (Kirk) and Todd Haberkorn (Spock) are prolific VO artists and convention regulars, and if anything, their fan movie work just takes them away from legions of fans in the anime and cosplaying communities to considerably smaller convention appearances on Trek panels.

I honestly don't think CBS give a shit about fan movies, and if they do it's in the same way Lucasfilm gives a shit: until someone starts selling merchandise, it's just free advertising and the only reason you should sue your fans for loving you too much is because they've broken into your house and wanked in your bed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 03:33:43 pm


That's after the kickstarters, so Shark's point still stands. Cynical it may be, but it would go some way to explaining why CBS waited until two kickstarters were over, with a yearlong gap between them, before sending in the lawyers. I mean seriously, an entire year? And seven days after the second one, not during?

We can all agree that Peters is an arse and we can all agree the CBS/Paramount/whoever have the right to protect their IP. However, I still think there are questions worth asking regarding how slow they were to react and why they waited until after the money was taken when it was quite obvious how well the fundraising was going.

Regards,

Robin


The settlement outcome doesn't really support that and CBS/Paramount have surprisingly been quite fair in that regard. If they really wanted to they could've crushed Peters and fan-films for good, they didn't, and they're still allowing Peters to make it according to the guidelines that apply to everyone. It was his actions that more or less forced their hand to create those guidelines. Peters doesn't even have to pay their legal bills and yet all he is left with are problems he created himself which is probably why Axanar will never happen - unless willing fans give him private donations without even the precarious protection of a crowdfunding service.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 03:35:34 pm
The first kickstarter for prelude?

I guess at that stage, Peters wasn't trying to set up a studio, or sell unlicensed merchandise http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=merchandise (http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=merchandise)

Maybe they thought it would implode before the second kickstarter was completed, or maybe they'd just had enough of him taking the piss.

No, Prelude to Axanar had its own Kickstarter in 2014, and it openly stated that 'Prelude to Axanar will then allow us to launch into Axanar having proven our ability to deliver professional quality Star Trek.  There will be a subsequent Kickstarter for the feature-length "Axanar". The Axanar team is determined to make the first true independent Star Trek film.' And even this initial round of fundraising was offering t-shirts and uniform shoulder patches. The target was for $10,000 and made $100,100, and it delivered something outstanding.

It was after that  there was another Kickstarter for Axanar itself. They are quite open that this will not be the last fundraiser:

So we are breaking up our costs into discreet sections which should allow us to reach significant milestones, as we don't expect to raise the full amount all at once.  This first Kickstarter will be for the sound stage and set construction.  Anything over what we need for that will be applied to the feature production costs. Full details are below.'

Those full details include:

'We have two potential locations we are negotiating for to serve as our sound stage in Valencia, CA, just north of LA.  This will be the permanent home of Axanar Productions and allow us to do more than just Axanar, from other adventures in the Star Trek universe and beyond.'

There's no secret over Peters' intentions here.  The target is $100,000 and it makes $638,000. And there's the usual merchandise.

Whatever Peters' may have been doing privately with the money, he was quite open about his business intentions. CBS could quite legitimately have acted after this Kickstarter, but it didn't

Then a year or so later there was the second Axanar fundraiser on Indiegogo.


Quote
Their IP, their call.

So, you wait until the completion of not one, not two, but three highly successful rounds of crowdfunding before acting? As I said in an earlier post, that's not how you protect IP.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 03:45:32 pm
If they really wanted to they could've crushed Peters and fan-films for good, they didn't, and they're still allowing Peters to make it according to the guidelines that apply to everyone.

True, but at the same time they don't want to come out of this looking like the bad guys, either.

Quote
It was his actions that more or less forced their hand to create those guidelines.

Again, I accept that. But I don't accept they couldn't have moved their hand a little faster.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 03:47:12 pm
If they really wanted to they could've crushed Peters and fan-films for good, they didn't, and they're still allowing Peters to make it according to the guidelines that apply to everyone.

True, but at the same time they don't want to come out of this looking like the bad guys, either.

Quote
It was his actions that more or less forced their hand to create those guidelines.

Again, I accept that. But I don't accept they couldn't have moved their hand a little faster.

Regards,

Robin



I think it's quite clear that in this case it was Peters who pissed off and discouraged many future donors rather than it being the result of some forethought strategy hatched by CBS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 03:51:49 pm
I think it's quite clear that in this case it was Peters who pissed off and discouraged many future donors rather than it being the result of some forethought strategy hatched by CBS.

Sorry, I'm not following, can you expand?

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 21 January, 2017, 03:53:42 pm
And as I said, it's their IP and they can act however they want to.

I'd suggest that patches and t-shirts are one thing, if they're tied to a production (other IP holders may hold a different view on that), but when you start flogging models of trek ships, you're going to get firms who've paid licensing rights saying WTF - why am I paying for these rights.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 03:58:42 pm
I think it's quite clear that in this case it was Peters who pissed off and discouraged many future donors rather than it being the result of some forethought strategy hatched by CBS.

Sorry, I'm not following, can you expand?

It was Sharky's point that delaying action was a ploy to discourage donors; I think it was Peters - by embezzlement - who ultimately did that, not CBS.


My cynical mind thinks the plan might have been to allow as many funders as possible to lose money so as to put them off any similar enterprises in the future.


That's after the kickstarters, so Shark's point still stands. Cynical it may be, but it would go some way to explaining why CBS waited until two kickstarters were over, with a yearlong gap between them, before sending in the lawyers. I mean seriously, an entire year? And seven days after the second one, not during?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 04:08:55 pm
And as I said, it's their IP and they can act however they want to.

Sure they can, but you-snooze-you-lose is a thing here.

And, why did they choose to act that way? Dunno, our lawyers just felt like it?

Quote
I'd suggest that patches and t-shirts are one thing, if they're tied to a production (other IP holders may hold a different view on that), but when you start flogging models of trek ships, you're going to get firms who've paid licensing rights saying WTF - why am I paying for these rights.

That is indeed a fair point. Perhaps the motivating factor was in fact complaints from licensees. But I come back to the question, why seven days after the second kickstarter and not, say, seven days before it ended?

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 04:15:35 pm
It was Sharky's point that delaying action was a ploy to discourage donors; I think it was Peters - by embezzlement - who ultimately did that, not CBS.

Ah, right, yes.

By the way, have we seen any actual evidence of embezzlement? Aside from looking at the various kickstarter pages I've not bothered looking much online, as the debate seems highly polarized.

Based on what I've seen on other kickstarters with unhappy donors, some folks are more than capable of taking legal action. If there's actual evidence, some of the 8,000+ donors will go after him.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 21 January, 2017, 04:20:42 pm
I've no idea why they chose to wait, and I'm not really that bothered.



“Further, Peters paid himself money he raised from fans to pay for his health insurance, his car insurance, to fill up his and his girlfriend’s gas tank on a weekly basis for two years, to pay for his phone, his girlfriend’s phone and his friend’s phone charges for two years, to pay for new tires for his Lexus, to take his car in for servicing, to travel around the world to attend various science fiction conventions, and even to pay his annual AAA membership and TSA pre-check fees.”

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/11/more-details-from-the-axanar-lawsuit/ (http://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/11/more-details-from-the-axanar-lawsuit/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 04:26:31 pm
It was Sharky's point that delaying action was a ploy to discourage donors; I think it was Peters - by embezzlement - who ultimately did that, not CBS.

Ah, right, yes.


By the way, have we seen any actual evidence of embezzlement? Aside from looking at the various kickstarter pages I've not bothered looking much online, as the debate seems highly polarized.



Court documents have been put online that show him paying himself and others a salary and other indulgences but you can get all the pertinent info at axamonitor.

http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=summary_motions_filed

http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=summary_replies


Based on what I've seen on other kickstarters with unhappy donors, some folks are more than capable of taking legal action. If there's actual evidence, some of the 8,000+ donors will go after him.


Some of them are and the more zealous are turning on him now since the settlement - they perceive him as having "given in" and killed the cause.

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 04:29:51 pm
I've no idea why they chose to wait, and I'm not really that bothered.

Well, I'm mildly interested in what I regard as curious behaviour, but I'm guessing you don't wish to discuss this any further. Fair enough.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 04:47:38 pm
Court documents have been put online that show him paying himself and others a salary and other indulgences but you can get all the pertinent info at axamonitor.

Cheers. But oddly, a bit like Steve, I find myself being not that bothered.

Quote
Some of them are and the more zealous are turning on him now since the settlement - they perceive him as having "given in" and killed the cause.

Interesting times ahead for him.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 21 January, 2017, 04:49:04 pm
Cheers. But oddly, a bit like Steve, I find myself being not that bothered.

I suppose it could depend on the size of your donation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 21 January, 2017, 05:01:58 pm
Cheers. But oddly, a bit like Steve, I find myself being not that bothered.

I suppose it could depend on the size of your donation.

Indeed. But one would hope that the person who gave $15,000 backed according to the value they could afford to lose. You have to back these things with the understanding you may lose your money, for good reasons or bad. I see a number of people in the roleplaying community who treat crowdfunding as a guaranteed pre-order service. I don't have too much sympathy for their complaints when things go tits up. Some grumbling is acceptable; outright bitterness and hate, less so.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 25 January, 2017, 11:46:05 pm

Guidelines, what guidelines?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C27uRQNUUAAJSTz.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 31 January, 2017, 11:39:44 am
Is he going for an hour of audio only on top?

Multiple commentaries?

Or is he really asking for another kicking from CBS/Paramount?
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 31 January, 2017, 11:46:47 am
http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=bailey_committee#public_end_run_private_donations (http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=bailey_committee#public_end_run_private_donations)

Oh, he's trying to put old stuff on there that he's in, produced by the New Voyages crew...

Wonder if they know that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 31 January, 2017, 11:47:50 am
Might be released as a high frame-rate film that you have to slow down yourself in VLC Media Player's Settings tab...
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 31 January, 2017, 12:01:24 pm
I doubt it.

I imagine CBS would have something to say about that.

More importantly he's spent all the money and doesn't have a film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 31 January, 2017, 12:04:52 pm
I was joking - barely, I admit, but joking.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 31 January, 2017, 01:13:39 pm
Supporters on their fb page have seriously suggested that as an option.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 31 January, 2017, 01:15:37 pm
No way - really? The world truly has gone mad!

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 26 February, 2017, 07:52:00 pm
Looks like the Axanar thing had an effect on one of the other fan film series.

From the Star Trek Continues fb page.

"CBS is not responsible for the decision to end the series. We are doing 11 episodes instead of 13 because another fan group took advantage of the good graces of the copyright holders forcing them to protect their property and the interests of their license holders. In deference and gratitude to CBS, we are wrapping up earlier than planned. We always have stood, and continue to stand, with CBS."
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 26 February, 2017, 09:04:14 pm
The Axanar fucker(s) put up a post on facebook decrying the fact Star Trek Continues were finishing up what they all ready had in the can –pre-guidelines– then quickly pulled it down when just about every single comment made by Axanar devotees told him he was acting like a petulant child for trying to destroy a fellow fan-film.

https://twitter.com/AxaMonitor/status/835658690455707648

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 26 February, 2017, 09:07:11 pm
He keeps on digging, I'll give him that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 26 February, 2017, 09:29:40 pm
I also see that Renegades have filed off the Trek references so they're not bound by the guidelines.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 20 March, 2017, 06:39:36 pm
For those few interested, this may amuse/irritate/annoy (delete as applicable):

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/industry-studios-the-first-fan-funded-movie-studio-film#/

At time of writing, 82 people have given $6,520, which is pretty impressive since there's nothing of particular interest on offer.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 20 March, 2017, 06:48:31 pm
Can't imagine that will succeed - one thing to be able to get money from people wanting a film all around the world.

Something else to raise it from people who want to make use of the facilities and are local enough to do so.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Robin Low on 20 March, 2017, 09:00:41 pm
Can't imagine that will succeed - one thing to be able to get money from people wanting a film all around the world.

Something else to raise it from people who want to make use of the facilities and are local enough to do so.

In one sense, it already has succeeded - this has a flexible goal, so the campaign gets the money whether or not the target is reached, and some mugs have already coughed up (a thousand dollars for a clapper for fuck sake).

I wouldn't be surprised if it makes the target, because that's the kind of nonsensical world we're living in right now, although I'm certainly not expecting it to do half a million plus third time in a row.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 20 March, 2017, 09:05:53 pm
More fool them.

I like the idea of a studio geared towards the lower budget film-makers - an interior backlot of sorts with props, corridors, sets that could be rearranged.

Just amazed people are still putting money in after he's burned through all this with not much on film to show for it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Professor Bear on 20 March, 2017, 10:53:31 pm
Phase 2 and Star Trek Continues crowd-funded their set-building on early episodes and now share facilities with other TOS-era fan productions like Starship Farragut, but all of these shows are coming to an end because of the regulations put in place by CBS in response to Axanar.  I guess Peters saw the soon-to-be gap in the market he'd caused and decided to occupy it himself.
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 20 March, 2017, 10:53:48 pm
Using the lukewarm corpse of Richard Hatch to promote your crowd-fund campaign for a commercial studio.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff248/burlearth/hatch_zpsehdxzcyi.jpg)

Classy.


I wonder do 'operating costs' = personal salary?

Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: Steve Green on 20 March, 2017, 10:57:48 pm
Even if they attain their main goal, they'll still have to move.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7YuaqNWkAEJOok.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: JOE SOAP on 20 March, 2017, 11:01:30 pm


He's asking Star Trek fans to pay his personal debts. Total crook.





Title: Re: Star Trek: Axanar
Post by: CrazyFoxMachine on 21 March, 2017, 05:56:39 pm
It's a thin line of decency this crowdfunding lark... I remember the Axe Cop guy tried to kickstart his wedding once and on the Q & A there was a line like: "But you've just signed a deal with Fox and Dark Horse - surely you can afford to pay for your own wedding? Well yes, but the time that money takes to accumulate is longer than we can be bothered to wait. We want our wedding ASAP"  :-\