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Comic Art

Started by Jim_Campbell, 15 October, 2006, 10:32:53 PM

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Jim_Campbell

So ... the art compos on this board have kind of got me thinking, espcecially compared to a vaguely similar competition running on the dreaded John Byrne Forum (see link below - board members were invited to submit two pages of strip that would lead up to a splash page already drawn by the 'Big Man' himself as a commission).

What struck me about the offerings on the JBF was not (particularly) how piss-poor they were, but rather how much every single one of them seemed to be determined to mimic Generic Comic Artist #24 (which, I think, is Ron Frenz).

Now, you might want to try and suggest something about the nature of the contributors to the JBF from this, but try to keep this in mind: no matter how loathesome you might find Byrne's persona (online or otherwise), we are talking about the loyal followers of one of the most significant comic artists, certainly of the 1980s.

Although you could certainly argue that Byrne's finished work is somewhat bland, I would take issue with anyone who tried to suggest that he is:

a) not a consummate draughtsmen (there are some three-point cityscape perspectives in his Fantastic Four work that would put an architect to shame)

   and

b) not an excellent storyteller.

So, whilst you might argue that the contributors to the JBF are not a representative cross-section of US fandom in general, it is interesting that there is not one single submission to the thread below that shows the slightest understanding of art outside the US superhero genre.

I'm curious about this. It's not like readers of US mainstream comics are not exposed to wider influences -- let's ignore the the splendid contributions of UK artists like McKean, Fegredo, D'Israeli, et al. That still leaves people like Sienkiewicz, McKeever, Muth, Mignola, Pratt, Dringenberg, Giffen and Badger. There are artists feeding into the mainstream (albeit some of those certainly on the periphery) who demonstrate knowledge of art outside the parochial field of superhero comics.

But ... sometimes I walk into Forbidden Planet, or some other shop, and I pull ten US titles off the shelves for no particular reason -- no regard for who's publishing them. Occasionally, I might be influenced by something I've heard about a title from an online discussion, but mostly it's because I like the sound of the title, or the cover is nice.

And, in 99% of them, the art is a substandard imitiation of Kubert, or Liefield, or McFarlane, or Lee (and in at least two of those examples, I wouldn't hold the original up as a shining example of good illustration). In probably about 75% of them, I can't actually make it through to the end of the issue because the art is so poor.

Which -- to me -- begs the question: what's wrong with these people, and what's wrong with the editors? How can you decide that you want to make a living from drawing, and not learn to draw? And who the fuck gives you work on that basis?

If you want an obect illustration of what's wrong with American comics, that's it. And a neat demonstration of why we should be thankful for the seemingly much wider range of styles that our beloved 2000AD will accept and nurture.

Thoughts?

Cheers!

Jim

Link: http://byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14550&PN=1&TPN=1" target="_blank">I know what I like ... and this isn't it!

Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Wils

Bloody hell. He can't even have a competition that's just fun, he has to run it like it's been organised by the SS.

Concrete Block 15

Never mind Red Skull, p'rhaps Cap America and Bucky would've been better employed kicking Oberstgruppenführer Byrne's arse. The man's megalomanical!

Trout

I fucking hate that prick.

He didn't even pick a winner himself. He's got them all jumping through hoops again.

If a 2K artist tried that here, we'd tell him to away and fuck himself.

- Trout

Emperor

My that is a great way to suck the fun out of things. If there was a giant fun asteroid heading to Earth that was going to kill us all with an excess of joy I  know who I'd be sending up in that space shuttle.

Which -- to me -- begs the question: what's wrong with these people, and what's wrong with the editors? How can you decide that you want to make a living from drawing, and not learn to draw? And who the fuck gives you work on that basis?

I suppose the big companies have to sell comic books and lots of them - with their main titles this is going to be partly dictated by the buyers. I'd imagine if things stray too far from what is expected sales drop. This is why they have imprints where they can try different things and even there things can sometimes get a bit samey.

2000 AD can freak things up a bit because:

1. It is known for taking risks and that is part of its appeal.

2. Its an anthology so if one series isn't delivering you always have others.

If you are shelling out the same money on one story and it honks then you aren't going to be so forgiving. I'd like to see them try more anthologies where they really mix things up.

Again I do wonder if one of the reason 2000 AD alumni are snatched up is because they are given the chance to try things that the American comic machine just can't deal with (a bit like major movie studios poaching indie film makers).

So ... the art compos on this board have kind of got me thinking, espcecially compared to a vaguely similar competition running on the dreaded John Byrne Forum (see link below - board members were invited to submit two pages of strip that would lead up to a splash page already drawn by the 'Big Man' himself as a commission).

What struck me about the offerings on the JBF was not (particularly) how piss-poor they were, but rather how much every single one of them seemed to be determined to mimic Generic Comic Artist #24 (which, I think, is Ron Frenz).

...

So, whilst you might argue that the contributors to the JBF are not a representative cross-section of US fandom in general, it is interesting that there is not one single submission to the thread below that shows the slightest understanding of art outside the US superhero genre.


That there is fighting talk!!!

I know we already have an art competition going and JB has shut his down but this is the 2000 AD forum and we don't need no steenkin' rules!!!* Sooooooooo let's see whatcha got ;)

If anyone is looking for ideas (sensible or silly ;) ) drop me a line.

*Except no rubbish, buttocks must be clenched from now until the piece is submitted (and no whining about "needing to go number twosies" this is the real world now boyscout!!), you can only post within a ten minute window and the day and time will be announced afterwards and your contributions will be used as toilet paper by tramps. Just by reading these rules you have caught syphilis.
if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Fractal Friction | Tumblr | Google+

Misanthrope

"Possibly, people shouldn't be commenting on these until John has had his say..."

God damn these people are arseholes.
Did you know Christ was a werewolf?

Matt Timson

That's nothing- check out the critique...

Link: http://byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14918&PN=0&TPN=7" target="_blank">You're all fucking SHIT

Pffft...

Matt Timson

To be fair, he's telling the truth- but I can't help but feel he knew exactly what the results would be before he even set the comp- he just likes the sound of his own voice.
Pffft...

Matt Timson

In other news, there was a troll intrusion on the Byrnster's forum last night (no, it wasn't me).  I just happened to catch it and thought I'd take a quick screen grab (knowing full well that it would be gone by this morning).

I don't normally condone out and out trolling, but this made me laugh out loud...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/johnnyeyebrows/SafariScreenSnapz046.jpg">
Pffft...

Byron Virgo

That's brilliant...sure I have a copy of Ultimate Byrne-Man lying around somewhere, though...

Bart Oliver


Well that's 30 minutes of my life I won't get back.
Obviously you're not a golfer.

Emperor

That's nothing- check out the critique...

Link: You're all fucking SHIT


Blimey. That is genuinely nasty.

What did JB think this was all about? People trying to break into the industry or some fans/aspiring artists having a crack at a challenge to see what they can do and presumably for fun.

While a few certainly have some good skills going on (even if plotting and pacing was occasionally a bit off - that is why they have scripts, even Marvel ones) but others clearly have no such illusions (one would hope). I could imagine some people may never pick up a pencil ever again.

I rarely visit the JB forum and this reminds me why - I've read that post from the Great Man a few times hoping to see something I missed the first time through but it is just horrible :(
if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Fractal Friction | Tumblr | Google+

Trout


Dog Deever

Not one solitary scrap of encouragement, what a fud. Mind you, some of the peeps on that board are just asking for it, they're brown-nosed arse-monkeys and it would be difficult not to be so shitty to them- especially if , like JB, you're a cunt!

Over here, we get Jock showing us some of his stuff, and Simon Frazer passing comment on representations of his character- brilliant!

Class trolling- come on, own up, which one of you was it?

Just a little rough and tumble, Judge man.