The Political Thread

[TordelBack]

"Sometimes in business you know a deal is better even when you don't have the numbers."

The financial policy that built Las Vegas.

[Old Tankie]

And all those things have happened whilst we have been in the EU Jim, maybe better off out then.

[NapalmKev]

Maybe better off out then.

I doubt it.

My working week was reduced (over a couple of years) from 48 hrs to 44 hrs, for the same pay! This was down to the EU, bringing the UK into line with more enlightened nations who had better working regulations and higher wages.

From the Tory's we're going to get - less money for public services - less protection from unscrupulous employers - and a whole lot of "I'm alright, Jack. Fuck the rest of them!"

Cheers

[Jim_Campbell]

And all those things have happened whilst we have been in the EU Jim, maybe better off out then.

All those things have happened under the Tories. The vast majority of workers' rights in the last twenty years have derived from EU legislation. If you think the Conservatives want to strengthen workers' rights, you simply haven't been paying attention to anything they've said in the last three decades.

[IndigoPrime]

Exactly. I keep hearing the same "well, that happened under the EU, so therefore we should leave" rubbish. The EU doesn't have a say in everything. We were and are a sovereign nation. Most of the crap inflicted on people has come from Tory governments making tax cuts, in order to help their rich donors and friends. The NHS is a great case in point: it was broadly fine under Labour, but as soon as spending got knifed, the service is in free-fall. It can't be any coincidence that the health minister is a strong advocate of privatised health. Still, I'm sure people will act all surprised when the Tories axe enforced worker rights and enshrine austerity permanently, because of self-inflicted stupidity.

I'm intrigued. I know it's only the Telegraph, but how can a democratically elected minister, operating within the existing political mechanism, and calling for a plebiscite under that system, possibly be construed as a 'traitor'?

Because anyone who doesn't agree with what May (and also Brexiters) is saying is a traitor now. That's how it works. Dissenters are "dividing the country", despite May and co. making absolutely no effort to even throw 48% of us a bone, nor to give the slightest shit about 3.5 million EEA nationals here, nor valuing the union in anything but the most abstract sense.

[GordonR]

Employment up, unemployment down, yep it's all going pear shaped.

You did this just a few weeks ago, and were told exactly the same thing as today.

Do you really not remember any of this?

[Hawkmumbler]

Employment up, unemployment down, yep it's all going pear shaped.

Until recently the only work I could get, and indeed the only competition I could in the face of my current employment, was zero hour contracts. This is NOT employment as you would defne it, it borderline slave labor.

Again, This is the fault of the Tories, not the EU.

[CalHab]

The Telegraph piece was actually worse for a while.

Absolutely horrific, particularly in the wake of the murder of Jo Cox. I'm not a fan of heavy regulation of the press but there needs to be some comeback for publishing material like this.

[Professor Bear]

And now the Tories have done a u-turn on taxing the self-employed, which probably outrages me even more than their taxing the self-employed in the first place, as the only difference between this and Brexit is that the right-wing press supports Brexit.
I suppose we at least know for certain who pulls this government's strings, now.  Good job taking back control we did there.

[Satanist]

The comments sections of these articles are fucking shameful on all sides but especially the English comments. Cries of racism (surely xenophobia) while trotting out the same auld stereotypes. I really don't think I can handle another indy-ref as the run up to the last one was soul destroying.

[IndigoPrime]

As someone who's self-employed, I wasn't exactly overjoyed about the NIC changes. It wasn't the extra money, but the notion of how taxation was being done, and the argument it was about fairness. (Give people like me maternity/paternity leave somehow and then we'll talk. I basically dropped my income in a manner someone who's under standard employment wouldn't have to do when mini-IP arrived. I'm glad I did, but it caused a lot of problems, not least in how taxes were subsequently dealt with.)

That said, I'm also not celebrating this 'win' for me, given that it's more power to the Brexit backbenches. Mind you, I don't have much pity for Hammond now either. I suspect he's under a lot of pressure, but he buckled in a major way from fighting for the single market to going full Brexit.

[Theblazeuk]

Employment up, unemployment down, yep it's all going pear shaped.

Still yet to see anything other than heads firmly in sand whenever this is brought up:

[IndigoPrime]

It's OK, because Brexit people tell us we want a lower pound, because of exports, even though they for some reason start crowing every time Sterling claws back a couple of cents against the dollar. It's almost like they have no fucking idea about the importance of Sterling's strength, nor of the massive impact this is having on everyone from people buying technology through to fruit from overseas.

[Jim_Campbell]

It's OK, because Brexit people tell us we want a lower pound, because of exports

*coughcoughcoughmassivebalanceoftradedeficitcough*

I saw a Leave voter, completely unironically, say that we could materially improve our balance of trade by resuming coal mining and steel production. I had to break it to her that we let the coal mines flood and that steel foundries can't be re-lit once they go cold. Those industries aren't coming back.

That's the really frightening thing: when you can actually get a Leave-er to expand on their reasons why everything will be OK post-Brexit (beyond 'sovereignty' or 'but foreigners') they turn out to be completely ill-informed, occasionally the point of complete delusion.

(See also: the Leave voter on R4's You And Yours yesterday who was complaining about the negative impact on his business of the fall of sterling, which he blames on Remainers...)

[IndigoPrime]

Yeah, I've seen Leave voters starting to turn – including so-called Liberal Leave people. I had one yesterday on Twitter – one of the few genuinely reasonable Leave voters I've had contact with – basically blame hard Brexit on the Remain side. His argument: that Remain didn't meet Leave halfway before the referendum and agree to a Norway option. That even the Liberal Democrats said they'd back that multiple times since seems to have been ignored. It's like the Wetherspoon guy, bellyaching about the EU all the time, and now demanding some kind of immigration deal happen, now he's realised his entire chain of pubs is basically screwed without EU staff.