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Author Topic: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray  (Read 1421 times)

Ancient Otter

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Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« on: 07 March, 2013, 09:56:31 pm »
Anyone hear of this OGN before? Looks like Random House are trying to muscle in on a piece of 2000AD's action.  :lol:

maryanddavid

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #1 on: 08 March, 2013, 12:13:54 am »
And they'd be right, I'd buy that! Sound interesting.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #2 on: 08 March, 2013, 08:19:39 am »
Given Molch-R rather terse and uninformative, answer in the negative to someone's (apologise I can't remember whose) question to Keith Richardson about whether Rebellion and 2000ad would ever consider a line of OGNs this is very interesting. Strikes me as just the sort of product that Rebellion might be able to expand their line with and expand the awareness of the 2000ad brand.

Clearly the economics of such a venture are beyond my field knowledge and Random House clearly have more clout behind them, but I'd love to know more about why exactly this type of product is one that either doesn't interest Rebellion, or they aren't able to bankroll.

Also be very interesting to see how it does. I will certainly be having a closer look.

Molch-R

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #3 on: 08 March, 2013, 10:48:58 am »
Er ... what? I gave a straight answer to a straight question. Would you prefer me to be obtuse because, by God, I can obtuse it all to Hell and back...

I'd love to know more about why exactly this type of product is one that either doesn't interest Rebellion, or they aren't able to bankroll.

The simple fact is that we have no interest in original OGNs because we're concentrating on 2000 AD as a going concern. And, with the greatest of respect, I would question your understanding of what does and does not help a 'brand' - as you say, the economics of it are beyond you, but you're talking about completely changing our business model into a new area that offers no significant returns.
« Last Edit: 08 March, 2013, 10:51:21 am by Molch-R »

Colin YNWA

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #4 on: 08 March, 2013, 10:59:56 am »

I'd love to know more about why exactly this type of product is one that either doesn't interest Rebellion, or they aren't able to bankroll.

The simple fact is that we have no interest in original OGNs because we're concentrating on 2000 AD as a going concern. And, with the greatest of respect, I would question your understanding of what does and does not help a 'brand' - as you say, the economics of it are beyond you, but you're talking about completely changing our business model into a new area that offers no significant returns.

Now you see that's what I mean. As you so pointedly state I've little knowledge of marketing, aside from what needed to get folks into the library I run and so indeed might miss what helps a brand. Since I am very interested in 2000ad it strikes me, in my oh so simple world, as way of getting people to hear about it. No when someone comes along in a market capacity to talk about 2000ad I therefore have an interest in expanding my understanding, you know learning and stuff about what I don't know. Heaven forbid we should ever ask questions to learn in these parts.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #5 on: 08 March, 2013, 11:55:12 am »

I'd love to know more about why exactly this type of product is one that either doesn't interest Rebellion, or they aren't able to bankroll.

The simple fact is that we have no interest in original OGNs because we're concentrating on 2000 AD as a going concern. And, with the greatest of respect, I would question your understanding of what does and does not help a 'brand' - as you say, the economics of it are beyond you, but you're talking about completely changing our business model into a new area that offers no significant returns.

Now you see that's what I mean. As you so pointedly state I've little knowledge of marketing, aside from what needed to get folks into the library I run and so indeed might miss what helps a brand. Since I am very interested in 2000ad it strikes me, in my oh so simple world, as way of getting people to hear about it. No when someone comes along in a market capacity to talk about 2000ad I therefore have an interest in expanding my understanding, you know learning and stuff about what I don't know. Heaven forbid we should ever ask questions to learn in these parts.

I wrote that in quite the rush and so even by my standards the typos aren't helping so I'll try that again...

That more comprehensive answer is what I meant. As you so pointedly state I've little knowledge of marketing, aside from what's needed to get folks into the library I run and so indeed I might (will) miss what helps a 'brand'. Since I am very interested in 2000ad, this (beginning OGN line) strikes me, in my oh so simple world, as a way of getting people to hear and talk about the comic who otherwise might not. Now when someone comes along in a marketing capacity to talk about 2000ad, I therefore have an interest in expanding my understanding, you know learning and stuff about what I don't know. Heaven forbid we should ever ask questions to learn in these parts.

Continued as I should have added: That is of course not to say there is any obligation on said marketing people to answer those questions or help people learn.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #6 on: 08 March, 2013, 11:57:04 am »
There's some pretty straightforward economics* in play here, too, Colin.

Let's say you want to commission a story consisting of 120 pages of original full colour strip. You commission it as a single work OGN. The writer writes it. Chances are, he'll** have written the whole thing before the artist starts work on it and will want paying. Let's say he's getting £50 a page, so you have accounts raise a cheque for £6000.

The artist starts work. Let's say he can do page of finished full colour every two days, so it's going to take him 240 working days. He'll probably intend to work 7 days a week, but in all likelihood real life will mean he'll only do 5 days a week (in fact, why shouldn't he do a 5-day week like everyone else?) meaning that the job will take him 48 weeks, assuming no major illnesses and the fact that he's happy to go a year without taking a holiday.

You've probably arranged to pay him in instalments on completion of sections of the book (or he'll starve). Let's say you've agreed £200 a page and that he'll complete 40 pages every 16 weeks. You greenlit the project in January, the writer delivered the script at the end of Feb, and the artist started work in early March. On 1st July, he delivers the first batch of pages. You get accounts to raise a cheque for £8000.

Accounts notes that this project has been ongoing for seven months, cost £14,000 and delivered not one penny in revenue.

On 1st November, you get the second batch of pages. The project is now in its eleventh month, has cost £22,000 and still delivered no revenue. Sometime in January, you get the last batch of pages and issue the last cheque. The project is now £30,000 in the red and has brought in nothing. Now, you have to add in the costs of marketing it, and try to recoup all the money from that single product.

The alternative is to commission and publish it in 5-page episodes as part of your established anthology comic. 24 episodes, spread over two 12-part series. If you have control of your workflow, you can probably work as little as eight weeks in advance, meaning that you are raising cheques to the writer for £250 a week and to the artist for £1000 every fortnight and are making money back on the material before they've even finished Book 1.

In the unfortunate event that the artist becomes ill, the OGN essentially goes on hold where the weekly schedule will probably accommodate a fill-in artist for an episode. If the series proves disastrously unpopular, you can can it after the first series and (the beauty of an anthology) you probably won't even have lost any money.

If it's wildly popular, you can stick it out as a collected edition anyway, certain in the knowledge that 1) it's got an audience, and 2) you've already paid for the material so everything over and above the printing and production is basically free money.

Cheers

Jim

*Any numbers quoted are entirely hypothetical and have been selected for the purposes of making the maths easy.

**Or she. I'm saying 'he' because it's quicker to type.
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Colin YNWA

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #7 on: 08 March, 2013, 12:03:19 pm »
Cool, now Jim is never a man to shy away from teaching us unwashed masses. That's a fantastic insight (and when you have it bloody obvious too!)

CrazyFoxMachine

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #8 on: 08 March, 2013, 12:53:04 pm »
*ahem* Drowntown looks good though.

Satanist

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #9 on: 08 March, 2013, 01:27:09 pm »
Is Maggie Smith still in it?
Hmm, just pretend I wrote something witty eh?

Richmond Clements

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #10 on: 08 March, 2013, 01:33:14 pm »
Is Maggie Smith still in it?

Superb.

TordelBack

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #11 on: 08 March, 2013, 02:17:18 pm »
This thread has proved to be one of the most thought-embiggening ever.  Thanks to all, esp .Michael, Jim and Colin, Otter for kicking it off and Satanist for the after-dinner guffaw.

radiator

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #12 on: 08 March, 2013, 04:53:15 pm »
Sounds right up my street, I'll be getting a copy if the word is good (it's not out til July by the looks.

Jim Murray hasn't done any comics in a long while has he?

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #13 on: 08 March, 2013, 05:21:58 pm »
Jim's old website seems to have disappeared, but he does have a Facebook page with some snippets of Drowntown, and you can find him on Twitter as @J1mMurray.

Edit to add: lettering's not great, mind you… :-(

Edit again: Oh, and he's got a blog.

Cheers

Jim
« Last Edit: 08 March, 2013, 05:26:20 pm by Jim_Campbell »
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Ancient Otter

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Re: Drowntown by Robbie Morrison & Jim Murray
« Reply #14 on: 08 March, 2013, 07:06:57 pm »
This thread has proved to be one of the most thought-embiggening ever.  Thanks to all, esp .Michael, Jim and Colin, Otter for kicking it off and Satanist for the after-dinner guffaw.

All I asked was had anyone heard of it....