The Political Thread

[I, Cosh]

A Polish colleague of mine woke up after the referendum to a note on his car windscreen saying "Go home now" - this is the world that smug disaffected class has created for us.

This is far from the first anecdote of this nature that I've heard and it's all just utterly horrifying, Lord of the Flies stuff. Is the veneer of civilisation really so thin?

I don't have much constructive to say about the referendum result (just imagine I've given Tordelback the authority to represent me) but, on a purely selfish personal level, I would just like to take the opportunity to say a big, individual thank you to each and every awful, witless cunt in the land who voted to destroy my livelihood and my nice, comfortable Mitteleuropean life.

[pauljholden]

The parallels with how the jews were treated in Germany during the ascendency of the Nazi party are hard to ignore.

-PJ

[Hawkmumbler]

The parallels with how the jews were treated in Germany during the ascendency of the Nazi party are hard to ignore.

-PJ

I ended up blocking a few people over this on social media recently. Apparently anyone who brings up Hitler or the Nazi party in a debate loses by default, as if Nazi Germany existed in a bubble universe or something.

[pauljholden]

The parallels with how the jews were treated in Germany during the ascendency of the Nazi party are hard to ignore.

-PJ

I ended up blocking a few people over this on social media recently. Apparently anyone who brings up Hitler or the Nazi party in a debate loses by default, as if Nazi Germany existed in a bubble universe or something.

It's the Godwin argument. My counter to that is when the degree of seperattiin between and incident and invoking the nazis is just 1 the. Godwin doesn't apply.

[sheridan]

What are you talking about.  All this talk about a global financial meltdown and armageddon is just fear mongering from the Remain campaigners.  Everything will be fine once the referendum is over ....

... oh.

Sorry, got that one wrong.

They haven't admitted they got that one wrong yet - latest claims are that everything will sort itself out in a couple of days (!)

[Steven Denton]

The parallels with how the jews were treated in Germany during the ascendency of the Nazi party are hard to ignore.

-PJ

I ended up blocking a few people over this on social media recently. Apparently anyone who brings up Hitler or the Nazi party in a debate loses by default, as if Nazi Germany existed in a bubble universe or something.

It's the Godwin argument. My counter to that is when the degree of seperattiin between and incident and invoking the nazis is just 1 the. Godwin doesn't apply.

This is one of my pet hates, and I tend to direct people who misunderstand it to Wikipedia.

Godwin's law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. "Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust"

Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

People Who think it was ever intended to indicate the automatic loss of an argument do not understand Godwin's Law or arguments.

[Tjm86]

They haven't admitted they got that one wrong yet - latest claims are that everything will sort itself out in a couple of days (!)

And today Farage stands in the European Parliament and completely embarrasses the UK.  Can we please paint in massive letters on the White Cliffs of Dover:  "Farage does not speak for Britain."

The rest of Europe must be cringing at exactly how stupid we Brits are to have someone of his calibre claiming to represent us.

[Professor Bear]

Corbyn loses his No Confidence vote and the media waste no time trying to figure out why someone they've spent a year telling us spent 30 years being stubborn and refusing to obey the will of the party is now out of nowhere being stubborn and refusing to obey the will of the party.  It's a real brain teaser.

Anyway, Corbyn now has nothing to lose in deselecting MPs en-mass just ahead of a snap election where those MPs will face the membership they've spent the last year alienating.  I know I am not great at politics, but this plan of Hillary Benn's increasingly seems to me like a plan Ned Stark would come up with.

[JayzusB.Christ]

They haven't admitted they got that one wrong yet - latest claims are that everything will sort itself out in a couple of days (!)

And today Farage stands in the European Parliament and completely embarrasses the UK.  Can we please paint in massive letters on the White Cliffs of Dover:  "Farage does not speak for Britain."

The rest of Europe must be cringing at exactly how stupid we Brits are to have someone of his calibre claiming to represent us.

Well, kind of, to be honest. Farage disgraced himself and his country yesterday.  I may not live in Britain myself, but this little pocket of the world has felt a far uglier and meaner place since he and his ilk scored their pathetic little 'victory' last week.

[Hawkmumbler]

Your not the only one, hate related crime up 35% in five days, in the middle of Ramadan and the beggining of Pride season. I'm genuinely afraid for some of my friends right now, a system we've set up involves FB messanger circles, after each day we just sign in a post a message just to show we're OK. I'M pretty safe, it's my Muslim and Jewish friends I fear for.

[Banners]

Very disappointed our local MP Edward Timpson is backing Stephen Crabb for PM, someone who voted against same-sex marriage in 2013.

That said, he could back any of the candidates and it would likely be just as disappointing for some other reason. With no outstanding nor progressive candidates, our next Prime Minister will be hugely compromised, but with Labour fighting amongst themselves there's no credible alternative.

How I wish Nicola Sturgeon was English.

[The Legendary Shark]

TVP Info, a Polish broadcaster, has leaked a 9-page document, allegedly drawn up by the German and French foreign ministers calling for an EU superstate complete with an EU army, integrated border controls and common taxation. From the document:

"The EU will need to take action more often in order to manage crises that directly affect its own security. We therefore need stronger and more flexible crisis prevention and crisis management capabilities. The EU should be able to plan and conduct civil and military operations more effectively, with the support of a permanent civil-military chain of command. The EU should be able to rely on employable high-readiness forces and provide common financing for its operations. Within the framework of the EU, member states willing to establish permanent structured cooperation in the field of defence or to push ahead to launch operations should be able to do so in a flexible manner. If needed, EU member states should consider establishing standing maritime forces or acquiring EU-owned capabilities in other key areas."

Just what the world needs, another pan-European army. Maybe it'll be ready for action by 2039, just in time for the WWII centenary...

[morpheas]

TVP Info, a Polish broadcaster, has leaked a 9-page document,[...]

Not exactly a leak, reuters reportet at 25th of June: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-france-idUSKCN0ZC0BQ

"Acknowledging that the European Union is "being severely put to the test", Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Jean-Marc Ayrault said the bloc was challenged by a series of crises to its south and east while economic growth was on a slow recovery path. Work on the paper began before Britain voted on Thursday to quit the EU."

But interesting that UK isn't involved.

[JPMaybe]

I didn't think I could be any more convinced of the utter and total disdain in which the PLP hold their members; it's like they looked at the US election as a playbook for how to alienate their left-wing base.  The divide between leftists and liberals has never been starker- I don't know if it's because we've won most of the legislative victories that united us (gay marriage, minimum wage etc.) or what, but the idea of handing the party over to another identikit third-way mediocrity who'll immediately tack right and throw immigrants under the bus almost physically nauseates me. 

I've come round to the view, rather painfully,  that Corbyn doesn't have the competence to push his agenda, but there's no way in hell now I'm not voting him straight back in given the scumminess of his opponents.

[The Legendary Shark]

UN Diplomat John Ashe Dies While Awaiting Trial To Testify Against Clinton Foundation Donor. He apparently crushed his own windpipe with a barbell.