What Confuses me about Slaine Book of Invasions.....

[ThryllSeekyr]

According to the graphic novels and what I have read about the connection between the Scottish and the Egyptians is that if Scota & Gael were the first Celts to populate the region of Ireland and the rest of Scotland/Briitain, then who were the people, including the Danu tribes, the Sesseir, Finian's, Falian's, the people of the Fir-Domain along with Slaine himself were there already.

Originally, I thought that the Egyptian immigrants were the very first Scottish-Celts while the Irish-Celts weere already there.  This may further explain the slight differences between the two and their way of speaking. Yet, I have read more accounts of those Egyptian's being responsible for the entire population of Celts in that region at that time.



There's also the mythological races of Formorians and Titans (As Pat Mills would name the declined race of Giants!) that are strongly hinted at from excerpts of that particular Slaine story arc are the earliest inhabitants of the northern regions of Tir-Nan-Og who lost their lands and were either forced into more inhospitable conditions or near extinction.

Anyway, to re-address my original question here, did Pat Mills have Slaine sent back to the further past. Seriously doubted, because his tribe, the Red Branch Knights and the rest of the tribes that exist in his time were there with him as well.

It's bit confusing...could be a glitch.

Discussion is most appreciated!

[Dark Jimbo]

...if Scota & Gael were the first Celts to populate the region of Ireland and the rest of Scotland/Briitain, then who were the people, including the Danu tribes, the Sesseir, Finian's, Falian's, the people of the Fir-Domain along with Slaine himself were there already.

The tribes were the Tuathaa de Danann, lather mythologised by the Celts as semi-supernatural demi-god ancestors.

[ThryllSeekyr]

According to which version, the original mythos sourced by the author or the author's version?

I think they have as two two different things there.....

Your meaning.....

They were they were regular folk known Tribes of the Earth-Goddess and then much later....they declared themselves to be the gods themselves or at least demi-gods.

Regarding my original question...

Could I assume that it's not supposed to make any sense in the traditional way, because they are kind of twisted with regards to rules and laws.

And that.... time is a spiral, beginning again where it ends.

Sure, I knew that all along, but I want to see if people disagree with that idea and give me another (Perhaps more sound...) explanation.

[Dark Jimbo]

Your meaning....

They were they were regular folk known Tribes of the Earth-Goddess and then much later....they declared themselves to be the gods themselves or at least demi-gods.

Er... no, not quite. The Tuathaa never claimed anything. I said the Celts later mythologised those earlier tribes into a sort of supernatural elder race, hundreds of years after they'd gone.

According to which version, the original mythos sourced by the author or the author's version?

I'm just talking how these things are presented in the Slaine strip, which is presumably closer to the truth in that respect than the actual myths themselves - that the legends of the Tuathaa and Fomors are probably memories of earlier, displaced (or wiped out) peoples whose remnants were just about hanging on as the earliest ancestors of the Celts started getting established.

In Slaine the Tribes of the Goddess (who would later be remembered as the Tuathaa) are a little magical, yes, what with the warp spasms and whatnot, but basically just normal people.

[Dark Jimbo]

You'll get better answers with stuff like this if you wait for Tordelback to return from his wanderings, TS!

[ThryllSeekyr]

Your meaning....

They were they were regular folk known Tribes of the Earth-Goddess and then much later....they declared themselves to be the gods themselves or at least demi-gods.

Er... no, not quite. The Tuathaa never claimed anything. I said the Celts later mythologised those earlier tribes into a sort of supernatural elder race, hundreds of years after they'd gone.

Okay, then, I understand now.

According to which version, the original mythos sourced by the author or the author's version?

I'm just talking how these things are presented in the Slaine strip, which is presumably closer to the truth in that respect than the actual myths themselves - that the legends of the Tuathaa and Fomors are probably memories of earlier, displaced (or wiped out) peoples whose remnants were just about hanging on as the earliest ancestors of the Celts started getting established.

I have my own theories about who or what the Fomorians really were. They very well could be a sub-sect of the southern & northern tribes wearing amphibious crossed with land animal suits as disguises. The suits could magical or some technological marvel made to give off the illusion of them being 8 to 9 feet tall beast men. They're playing a very nasty game.  This theory may not seem very sound once Slaine had untied the tribes to stop their invasion and some other factors I over looked.

They could be just Drunes (The Firbolg!) or most likely Mid-Guardians who were mutated or Eugenics. 

In Slaine the Tribes of the Goddess (who would later be remembered as the Tuathaa) are a little magical, yes, what with the warp spasms and whatnot, but basically just normal people.

You got me there, but do you seriously believe the real Celts had that magic?

Maybe they did...who knows?

[ThryllSeekyr]

You'll get better answers with stuff like this if you wait for Tordelback to return from his wanderings, TS!

A better question for the author!

[Dog Deever]

T.S....
the whole subject is a horribly complex thing full of many unanswered/ unanswerable questions. Questions like... "who or what were the Firbolgs?"- possibly Belgic Gauls, possibly men with trousers, possibly men with bags- maybe for collecting... something, possibly poetic invention"

Historians, archaeologists and linguists from all over Europe (and likely beyond now too) have been studying this stuff for over a century now and it's all still a bit woolly.

There's a transaltion of the Duan Eireannach and Duan Albanach here.
Scroll on down the left-hand menu til you get to the 'postscript' link, click that, then scroll down the right-hand window and both are at the end there. Not that it will help, but it's interesting.

[ThryllSeekyr]

Firbolgs as far as the people who made the Slaine role playing game were concerned a some or all of the people from the southern tribes that became Drune or Skull-Swords.

Otherwise, I have found the name to mean Bag-Man or something like that and before I found that out, I thought it might have the regional name for Giants.

I started another thread I can't quite locate right now where I addressed the author's use of Greek name for Giants or second or first born of the gods or the gods themselves or before the gods of that Parthenon rather than Ogre or Firbolg/ s I stated in upper paragraph, I thought it was another name for giants as well.   

I don't have a problem with if Pat Mills wrote it this way. I just thought the words Ogre or the supposed mythical meaning of Firbolg more fitting.

Following the link, interesting, yeah. I will read that more later, thanks.

[Dog Deever]

On the differences between Scots and Irish Gaelic- there's an element of Brythonic language in Scots gaelic not really present in Irish. These words are closer to old Welsh or Cumbric or a reconstructed Pictish than Gaelic and are also attested to in place names. On top of that, both are derived from middle-Irish and developed separately into their modern forms. It's pointless thinking in terms of 'Scottish' and 'Irish' concerning these peoples- these are relatively modern concepts which were meaningless to them.

[Dog Deever]

There have been some people with 'bulc' or 'bolc' attached to their name as well- a Morcant Bulc from Welsh literature about the 'Old North' and a Muredach Bolc in the Senchus Fer nAlban, no-ones really sure what it means. 'Bag' could signify actual bags, or bellows or even trousers (in the Gaulish style). IIRC Roman writers described the Britons as being basically the same as the Gauls, though a little more archaic; Tacitus also says that the Caledonians were no different from the Britons- this would imply that, for the most part the inhabitants of mainland Britain were linguistically and culturally similar to the Gauls- ie Brythonic, hence trouser wearing could be expected, at least with some.

The Firbolgs were supposedly an earlier 'race' inhabiting Ireland, according to the Gael, and had two main divisions- the Fir Domainn (supposedly dark-haired and swarthier in complexion- CuChulain's mate Ferdiad was  a Fir Domnainn) and the Galeóin (somehow connected with spears, sometimes equated with the Laigin). It was thought that there was a connection with the Dumnonii of Cornwall and Devon and the Fir Domnainn- implying that Ireland was first inhabited, in places at least, by Brythonic speakers before the Gael came in. This idea really isn't popular with some people.

I recall reading somewhere that the Dumnonii were big on mining tin (IIRC) and they used a process of digging pits. The conjecture was that they would put any goodies found into bags to carry away with them, all the while guarded by groups of spearmen; this gives us two groups of people- spearmen and bagmen. I have no idea why anyone would ascribe a tribal grouping based on occupation- it's all too neat and sounds a bit 'pishful thinking'- unless there was some sort of inter-tribal caste system in operation, which I suppose is not unlikely in a tribal people- "You see in this world there's two kinds of people- those with big spears and those who dig...".

The idea of bags being trousers is interesting though- when the Gael went to Ireland there were people there who spoke funny and wore trousers; so they waged war on those trouser-clad, spear waving, foreign homosexuals and made up shit about them being ogres and dip-shits. Epic Duan Mor right there.

[ThryllSeekyr]

I was going to start another thread about this...but recalled this one and feel better to continue here rather start this topic somewhere else and quite possibly not upset those willing to take me seriously.

As I was on the train home from the city one night, and not long after I have long after I got those new platform boots. I think it was on the 24th of last month.

I was sitting on the train trying to read what ever reading material I had managed to take with me and giving up after realising I have been cursed with something that prevents me from concentrating on any thing printed or even speech bubbles if I've been sitting there for more than three minutes trying to follow them without slamming the covers together and shoving them back into my over shoulder satchel. Is this what strange form illiteracy I now suffer that prevents me from reading for any significant length of time.

Anyway, way getting to the meat n potatoes......

My mind started to wander and ponder this subject. The confusing enigma about which people were which people and if some of the Hibernians originated from Indo-Europeans who (Who were known as Lusitanians who might have also been the Portugese, and weren't they Aztecs as well of similar stock, I guess they all are!) travelled west or they came from the south as the first people who occupied Spaine. I was going to say the Iberians were originally Aztecs who found their way onto that gulf when recolonising. Now this confuses me but I'm glad I got that out.

The conclusion I came to on my train ride home is that the Hibernians were either these Lusitainian that travelled that far west to settle in Ireland or people who I thought might have been East-Indians (Those people that were Hindu, Sheikh invented Pompa-Doms and the eating of Curry!) who mingled with the Norse-Folk, (Vikings of Midguard which almost sounds redundant, but I felt like saying that anyway!) more out of necessity than anything else.

By the time they reached that Emerald Isle or Greener land mass and some place possibly more arid, humid or tropical as the case was it was in Slaine when people were already there before that great flood. They might have been mixed up enough,  by the time they got there. Religiously and otherwise culturally they had either forgotten everything they once knew or remembered what was important as the case may be and made knew stuff to fill in the gaps. Otherwise, I'm not sure how things turn out the way they did, even if it's not meant to be part of the fantastic universe of Slaine.

Let that sink in......

Before I get started on how they might have all belonged the seven Atlantean tribes. (It really means races, but I like the word tribe so much better!)

I also haven't mentioned the Scottish folk back then and especially in Slaine's realm/time! This reflects on question I've asked here earlier. That the Scotts (Originally Gaels or as they are!)weren't who they are until they arrived from Egypt after wandering the lands or waters (If we're going by Slaine!) for ages, or years. (It seems sad, but I guess there was a lot of that going around!) and then mingles with people I already mention already occupying those lands if the case may be.

May be, they're definitely were a people who were dark in colour a bit like the Indianswho mingled with Norse folk at the time or earlier (Because I'm not sure of times and especially so if this was part of Slaines setting!) My only inkling about them is that the Egyptians were never one type of people. Not sure how they might have ben white if any of them were before Roman times where I'm sure they intermingled. Again with the religion and culture  if this happened while what I mentioned above was happening. Which I doubt, and especially the way this was done Slaine where he appeared to have his own people back home in Tara whilst wandering the lands of Albion bring the fight to the Fomorians and their invasions and the welcoming Scota the mother of Scotland.

From that information alone, I'm pretty sure that Scotland weren't considered to be Celts and those that occupied those lands might have been the predominant Hiberians who might have been all over those lands  until they Scottish immigrants intermingled with them, but remains some different enough that they were still had a bit of a individuality about them that set them apart from their neighbours who settled back into the west lands.

I know I have made mistakes here, but I also hope I have enlightened and not just proclaimed the obvious or even worse the contrary. I'm not a qualified historian, just fan of Slaine.....

I may summarise everything I wrote above here and rewrite more clearly some time soon and add some stuff about where Atlantis is figured in all this since Slaine is of their blood and this is kind of fantastic where needs to be well as true in parts.

Those ideas became crystal to me on my train ride home before looked around me to find that I taken the wrong train......

[TordelBack]

Man oh man am I staying out of this.  I got into enough trouble on this subject when we were running a volunteer excavation over the Summer - it's amazing how people get so attached to the most finely graded notions of 'race', a concept I struggle to even recognise (TS wisely uses 'tribe' instead, something I think makes more sense).  Suffice it to paraphrase the great Ben Goldacre, I think you'll find it's even more complicated than that...