Comics: the mechanics of the medium

[Fungus]

Like the mad flat colouring too. How I imagine the inside of Brendan McCarthy's head.

[Steven Denton]

Beginning with: time in comics.

Picking up from the discussion with Steven Denton which starts roughly here about how time passes in the comic medium and whether a panel is a 'frozen' instant or not... Steven argues, via Scott McCloud, that a panel is a snapshot and the time passes between the panels, I argued (with illustrations in the linked posts) that this ignores the fact that there are many ways that time can pass within a panel.

Putting together the Dept of Monsterology TPB, I came across this rather nice illustration of my point:



The comedy in the PAF derives from the passage of time within the preceding panel, which is created by the TSSSSSSS sound effect. Without the sound effect, we have no way of knowing whether the image is intended to present us with an instantaneous reaction shot from the vampire or a longer moment of puzzlement. PJ could have repeated the panel, or repeated it with a push in or a pull out, but that's a wasteful way to demonstrate the passage of time when it can be achieved in a single panel with just a long sound effect.

I'll reiterate for the sake of clarity that I don't dispute that time generally passes between panels in comics, but* the use of the form is enriched by also thinking about how time can pass within panels.

Cheers

Jim

*And I'm not specifically taking issue with Steven, here — I'd had this exact argument over on Sequential Workshop a couple of years ago and hadn't realised that the contrary view was being rigidly adhered to because it was coming from McCloud's book.

I was Just presenting Scott McCloud's argument to be argumentative as a response to a completely different statement. I had never really thought about it in any great detail and after re-reading Scott McCloud I am pretty sure that the way I used his argument was not how it was intended at all. The conclusion I came too, is that although the image in a frame is frozen like a photograph (some times a trick photo where the same people appear a number of times) we know that dialogue and sounds take time but it's only by the frames or lack of frames either side that that time is allowed to pass. the thing that always bugged me about superhero comics was how much time they spent in fights talking. either they spend an awfully lot of time standing still between punches or they talk really damn fast. I know how long it takes to throw a punch and I know how long it takes to say a couple of sentences and it just didn't match up.

The important thing to remember is that timing in comics is controlled both by the flow of frames and the content of the frame, weather that is sounds dialogue captions or actions.

[Steven Denton]

Macloud talks a lot about closure, meaning the assumptions we make between frames that can bridge the gap of a relatively small action or make a giant narrative leap. I think it's helpful to understand the rules/tools of the medium then break and bend or use them as you see fit.     

[The Legendary Shark]

I thought I'd chip-in on this thread about mechanics to speak to the writers among us and to talk about one of the most ignored facts (in my opinion) in writing - the structure of a story.
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In his book "The Seven Basic Plots, Why we tell stories", Christopher Booker argues that the overwhelming majority of stories are based upon or combinations of just seven archetypal plots.
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He cites the oldest known recorded story, "The Epic of Gilgamesh", a Sumerian tale from 5,000 years ago, to support his case. The kingdom of Uruk is threatened by a terrible monster, Gilgamesh answers the call, visits the armourers to get special weapons, embarks on a dangerous journey and finally, after a superhuman effort, defeats the monster in his underground lair, saves his kingdom and returns a hero. Compare this with your typical James Bond film in which the United Kingdom is threatened by a terrible monster, Bond answers the call and visits Q to get special weapons, embarks on a dangerous journey and finally, after a superhuman effort, defeats the monster in his underground lair, saves his country and returns a hero.
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As a further example, compare Beowolf and the film of Jaws: A monster brings chaos and terror and death to a place on the shore, the townsfolk's countermeasures fail, a hero comes from across the sea to fight the monster in its own environment in a brutal struggle, destroys the monster and saves the land. The only difference is that the shark in Jaws didn't have a mother or partner to ramp-up the ending a bit.
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The point is that stories, at least 95% of them at any rate, have a definite shape and, even though the audience isn't consciously aware that they know this, they do know it, understand it and even expect it. I think that many stories fail because the writer hasn't paid attention to the structure of the story they're telling and the audience picks up on that without necessarily knowing why.
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I have found that paying attention to story structure is a virtually unbeatable way to combat writers' block - because it tells you what your protagonist should be doing at each stage of the story. I have found this particularly helpful when plotting the middle of a story; the middles being notoriously difficult to write.
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To learn more about structure, Google "John Truby" and see if you can download the recordings of his screenwriting lectures.

[SuperSurfer]

I flatted a bit of Millar's MPH recently and that has some breathtaking Fegredo examples of time elapsing within panels. It has been done and it can be done and when done right it's phenomenal.

Nice one. I bought the first couple of issues of that. Phenomenal art.

Well flatted!

[Dark Jimbo]

This thread is great reading. The board actually seems to be mainly about comics again recently(!), after a summer of politics and 'best quiff/spliff ever' nonsense.

[Jim_Campbell]

Necropost!

A new blog post from me, dealing with how time passes within a frame, and how lettering placement can affect it... an example from a classic Swamp Thing scene.

—Click here—

Cheers!

Jim

[The Legendary Shark]

Excellent observation, Jim. I wonder how you'd write something like that into a script? I do sometimes indicate a pause by writing something like:

CHARACTER: AT LEAST I GOT YOU WATCHING MY BACK, RIGHT?

CHARACTER (LONG JOIN): JOE?

But that's usually just within one panel. That ST example obviously transcends such a basic trick. I'd love to see how the script described that gag.

[Jim_Campbell]

Excellent observation, Jim. I wonder how you'd write something like that into a script? I do sometimes indicate a pause by writing something like:

CHARACTER: AT LEAST I GOT YOU WATCHING MY BACK, RIGHT?

CHARACTER (LONG JOIN): JOE?

That would certainly work. Equally common now is the balloon-with-an-ellipsis to denote pauses or beats:

[The Legendary Shark]

Yeah - that's good. I guess a lot depends on the artwork, shape of the panel and such. I suppose writing something like "BEAT" or "PAUSE" would work, too.

I think a good artist always looks at things like that and I've always believed that a good letterer is worth his/her weight in gold.

[Hawkmumbler]

Some fascinating reading here, Jim.

[Jim_Campbell]

Some fascinating reading here, Jim.

Thanks, HM. Trying to make time for more bloggage... the work/life thing has been seriously out of kilter for the last year...*

Cheers!

Jim

*Just over 6,400 pages lettered in 2015. Apart from the five I did for 2000AD, I did think it too many!

[Darren Stephens]

How did I miss this thread back in 2014...? Very interesting reading. Cheers for the (necro) post, Jim. 

[Leigh S]

Necropost!

A new blog post from me, dealing with how time passes within a frame, and how lettering placement can affect it... an example from a classic Swamp Thing scene.

—Click here—

Cheers!


Jim

Great stuff

Knowing how meticulously Alan Moore visualises a page and orchstrates it, could it have been in the original script?  (Not that I'm trying to downplay the importance of the letterer or editor in these kind of decisions, but , you know, Alan Moore...!)

[Jim_Campbell]

Great stuff

Thanks!

Knowing how meticulously Alan Moore visualises a page and orchstrates it, could it have been in the original script?  (Not that I'm trying to downplay the importance of the letterer or editor in these kind of decisions, but , you know, Alan Moore...!)

I've seen a few Alan Moore scripts and whilst they're brain-melting in their level of detail, I don't think I've ever seen one that suggests he specifies balloon placements. There's just no realistic way of doing that without seeing the art (beyond the occasional general script instruction like 'Caption (Top Left)' or 'Caption (Bottom Right)').

It's worth also mentioning that the 'fix' is only necessary because of the composition of the main panel. If the composition had been mirrored then the straddling balloon wouldn't have been necessary (and I wonder whether a modern editor wouldn't simply have got the production guys to flip the big frame in Photoshop). That said, I call it a 'fix', but the fact that the eye has to travel right-to-left, against its natural reading direction, introduces an element of effort and disorientation that serves the narrative purpose well.

Whoever's idea it was, they should definitely take a bow.

Cheers

Jim