Preacher (TV Series)...

[radiator]

The same is also regularly said of midseason Game of Thrones episodes ("boring, slow, nothing happening...."), and it often makes me wonder if others watch the show for the same reasons I do. GoT is a show about characters first and foremost, and those big dramatic twists only have any weight because we care about them. Wall to wall spectacle would make a very dull watch indeed (for me at least).

Not only that, there's a usual chorus of moaning right from the start. GoT fans seem to suffer from amnesia at the start of every new season, because they're unable to recall that the awesome stuff at the back end of each season only bloody works because of the careful way the pieces are moved into place in the early episodes.

Cheers

Jim

Yup.

For all the bitching and moaning, it's remarkable when you rewatch old episodes of GoT and see that they really haven't wasted a single scene. Even the stuff that's unpopular (and I certainly don't think it's all 100% successful) - Pod's adventures with prostitutes, Grey Worm and Missandei, Ros... It's all there for a reason - it's all set up that will pay off, often years later.

Anyway, I'll leave my gushing for the GoT thread..

[JayzusB.Christ]

Good to see Jesse beginning to get his arrogance though, found him to be too much of a dweeb in the first one

What's funny is that I don't think we're actually meant to find comics Jesse arrogant. I honestly think Ennis intended him to be a straight-talking personification of old-school masculinity. A little pigheaded maybe, but other than that, pretty much without flaws. That he often comes across as a judgemental, arrogant douchebag is, I think, unintentional.

True.  That was a massive issue I had with the comic (and I know I've said it many times before) - I thought Jesse was a wanker, by and large, and generally enjoyed seeing him take a whupping.
I much prefer this Jesse as a character.  He may be ruggedly handsome and hard as nails, but he's flawed and vulnerable and acknowledges his nasty streak.  The lad in the comic was so full of self-righteous, smug egotism it made me sick (though I still liked the series).

[radiator]

The lad in the comic was so full of self-righteous, smug egotism

Yeah - and very clearly (I assume) a mouthpiece for Ennis' particular opinions on various subjects, from therapy to Bill Hicks to Laurel & Hardy.

[Jim_Campbell]

Yeah - and very clearly (I assume) a mouthpiece for Ennis' particular opinions on various subjects, from therapy to Bill Hicks to Laurel & Hardy.

This was one of the things that alienated me from Preacher, and much of his other writing from this period... the transparently obvious way Garth would drop any pretence of a character existing as an independent being, their voice would simply vanish and be replaced by Garth's.

[TordelBack]

Yeah - and very clearly (I assume) a mouthpiece for Ennis' particular opinions on various subjects, from therapy to Bill Hicks to Laurel & Hardy.

This was one of the things that alienated me from Preacher, and much of his other writing from this period... the transparently obvious way Garth would drop any pretence of a character existing as an independent being, their voice would simply vanish and be replaced by Garth's.

Yeah, I was struck by this on my full re-read a few years back.  I've no real problem with characters as mouthpieces in general, it can be interesting to hear almost directly from a creator (see Mills and A. Grant) on subjects that interest them, but I did have a problem with the fact that Jesse and Cassidy are complete pricks - and thus it's difficult to separate Garth's thoughts on Bill Hicks from the self-righteous egotistical mouth that is spewing them.

The Laurel and Hardy sequence is a good example.  Ollie and particularly Stan were fascinating people, and their lives and how their comedy relates is a great subject for discussion and analysis, but when Jesse starts in on it all I can see is that boorish knob sitting at the bar who insists on 'his' revelatory theory being the only possible reading, to the point that you dread going back up for another round.

[JayzusB.Christ]

 

Yeah - and very clearly (I assume) a mouthpiece for Ennis' particular opinions on various subjects, from therapy to Bill Hicks to Laurel & Hardy.

The therapy bit really pissed me off - 'Shrinks are for assholes'.  Shrinks are for people with psychological problems, Garth / Jesse, just like doctors are for people with physical ones. 

Jesse's smoking is handled well on the telly too.  Back when the comic was published, it was still a little bit cool to smoke, whereas now it's seen for the filthy, antisocial addiction it is.  The Jesse in the comic smokes Marlboro because he's a proud American and a cowboy, whereas the TV version smokes tabs of any description because he's fucked up and takes whatever vice is within arm's reach.

[Keef Monkey]

I think this week's episode may have been my favourite so far, a few real laughs and the opening Saint of Killers sequence was particularly well done. I don't seem to know anyone who is watching it though which is a worry, it's not been renewed for a second season just yet and I really, really want it to be!

[radiator]

I think what became very clear on my recent reread is that Preacher is very much a work by a guy in his early-mid twenties, and a lot of the things Ennis is/was enamoured with - smoking for one - are very uncool now.

As I say, while I think the early issues are rough and seem very dated, it gets way better as it goes on and Ennis (mostly) stops trying so hard to be cool.

There's a line at the end where (I think) Cassidy says something to Jesse about how 'isn't it funny that things don't turn out how you expect?', and also mentions to Jesse later that Jesse's quest was more about saving Cassidy than it was about finding God.

I took this to be Ennis talking directly to the reader and basically admitting that the story evolved in the writing and what really interested him by the end was the central relationship between the three characters.

I don't seem to know anyone who is watching it though which is a worry, it's not been renewed for a second season just yet and I really, really want it to be!

Yeah. Saw this yesterday, which doesn't bode well...

http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-are-so-few-people-talking-about-the-preacher-tv-ser-1782678109?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+io9%2Ffull+%28io9%29

However, as I said before, AMC have renewed the expensive-looking period drama Halt and Catch Fire for three seasons now, and are obviously determined to turn it into the new Mad Men, despite the fact that no one seems to watch or talk about it.

[The Monarch]

Worry not not only is it getting a second series its expanded to 13 episodes

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/amc-renews-preacher-for-season-2/pageno=?utm_campaign=amc-renews-preacher-for-season-2&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner

[radiator]

Nice!

I remember reading somewhere that overnight ratings are increasingly irrelevant in the streaming age, and TV networks are far more reluctant to cancel a show they believe in and have invested a lot in right out of the gate if it doesn't take off and get great ratings straight away, believing that if a show is high quality, then modern delivery platforms will allow it to grow an audience over time. I understand that HBO deeply regrets prematurely cancelling Deadwood for this reason, and did not take the decision to cancel Vinyl lightly.

Breaking Bad is the very model of how a show can gradually grow an audience season on season and eventually slow burn its way to enormous success and awards prestige).

[JayzusB.Christ]

Is anyone still watching this?  I'm still enjoying it, despite a couple of utterly non-eventful episodes.  I hope they leave Annville soon though. (Unless they have - I haven't seen the latest episode yet.)

[Mikey]

Yeah, just got up to speed over the weekend there after taking a break after Eps 3 and 4. I see others got the same feeling about those as I did (plus I had series 6 of GoT to watch)

Overall I'm enjoying it. Took me a while to warm to Jesse but he's getting there, think Cassidy is good and I really like Tulip though in my mind she was never so immediately  'sassy'. It's yet to hit the chemistry between the main characters that I fondly remember, but hopefully it'll get there in time. It's getting progressively darker at any rate, and I'm loving the Saint of Killers bits! Wish they were in every episode. I keep thinking if you hadn't read the comics it'd be a bit confusing - that brief appearance so far of Herr Stark fir example. If I didn't already know the significance I'd have forgotten it by now I reckon.

The therapy bit really pissed me off - 'Shrinks are for assholes'.  Shrinks are for people with psychological problems, Garth / Jesse, just like doctors are for people with physical ones. 

See, to me Jesse would say that being ultimately all Alpha Texas male. But I've never re read the comics and didn't get taken out of the story by such things at the time.

[radiator]

See, to me Jesse would say that being ultimately all Alpha Texas male. But I've never re read the comics and didn't get taken out of the story by such things at the time.

Perhaps, but as I say, to me it very much seems like Ennis frames Jesse and Cassidy's rants in a very 'righteous' way, as if they are spouting Bill Hicks style 'truth', and Ennis is literally just using them as a platform to sound off on certain subjects. I honestly don't think we're supposed to read into them any deeper than that. Could be wrong, but that's how I've always taken it.

[Mikey]

 Oh aye, I'm not saying I'm necessarily in the right. The last issue of Preacher was out around my 25th birthday, so I was probably not really aware of the mouthpiece aspects that turned others away.

[Dandontdare]

Since discovering I'd accidentally paid for a whole year Amazon Prime back in February, I've been catching up on this. Overall I'd say I'm enjoying it, but I'd probably enjoy it more if I hadn't read the comics because I get irritated by just how many fundamental changes have been made to the characters and their relationships, not to mention the story; and also just how toned down they've had to make it.

When we first meet Tulip in the comics, she's a wild but scared woman who can barely even hold a gun. In this one, she's a murdering bad-ass super-thief who can whip up a bazooka from tin-cans, moonshine and toy soldiers. The love affair between her and Jesse is one of the unshakeable rocks of the story - he only leaves her to protect her from the evil family, and she only sleeps with Cassidy when she thinks he's dead. This Tulip is an entirely different character with a fundamentally different relationship to the other leads. Making Jesse's dad a preacher too is quite a big shift in one of Jesse's most important relationships.

Many of the supporting characters have been made more normal and just less weird or evil - Sheriff Root, arseface, Odin Quincannon and so on. I think this is a result of having to put everybody together in a small town, rather than the sprawling road movie of the comics. In a road movie, the protagonists meet exaggerated characters and bizarre situations, but to make them all believable as a small-town community. all the interesting edges have been knocked off.

A few things I things I really did like - Both Jesse and Cassidy look and sound right; the background gag [spoiler]"Tom Cruise explodes"[/spoiler] made me guffaw, and I did enjoy the [spoiler]multi-corpse angelic motel punch up, and those two angels generally[/spoiler].

So overall, it's a good thing if taken on it's own merits, but it's not the Preacher I know and love.