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Moore vs. Morrison. This time its WAR!!!

Started by Colin YNWA, 25 November, 2012, 07:31:10 AM

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Frank

Quote from: Professor Bear on 25 November, 2012, 09:09:36 PM
he's either made extensive notes on Moore's career over the years, or he sat down and researched every claim in that article with a mind to rebuking it, either way, it seems a little unnecessarily... obsessive.

Aye, Morrison doesn't come out of that well. It reminded me of one of those forum ding-dongs where someone responds to another post with one which consists of sentence-long quotes followed by paragraph-long retorts. I'm surprised Morrison didn't end his contribution with the words "not that I care anyway ... retard!"

JamesC

Quote from: Professor Bear on 25 November, 2012, 09:09:36 PM

And am I the only one who finds it amazing that it is an actual story that a Northerner is a bit intransigent and a Scotsman is up for a ruck?

Northampton isn't in the north - it's the midlands!

Professor Bear

All the same coal eating ale drinkers to me.

TordelBack

Quote from: we are all roger godpleton on 25 November, 2012, 06:19:39 PM
Both of them are presenting a contrived persona to their audience, you just prefer it when the piss-stained wizard frantically tugging at levers is concealed behind a curtain.

Indeed - I do think Moore is more successful at appearing to be the trailblazing illuminated magus, while Morrison always seems to be working at it. It's not a criticism, I just suspect it must be a frustrating situation for Grant.

Quote from: we are all roger godpleton on 25 November, 2012, 06:19:39 PM
I like the way Morrison's open about living his life as a pose, and one of the most endearing things about his work is the way he interweaves the two strains of his persona - the priapic, transgressive revolutionary and the domesticated, sentimental loser - throughout his fiction as well as his autobiography, blurring the lines between the two and creating something unique.

All true.  I liked Morrison a lot more after reading Supergods: even if he came as having less depth and less original to say than I had expected the book made me realise how important a creator he is. In fact it's inspired me to track down and read his entire catalogue. 

Quote from: we are all roger godpleton on 25 November, 2012, 06:19:39 PM
I'm not sure I've felt much that Moore's written to be as emotionally affecting as the early episode of The Invisibles (ii) where Morrison dedicates an entire issue to telling the mundanely tragic (partly autobiographical) life story of one of the henchmen casually offed by the glamorous King Mob in issue number one.
[/quote]

Yeah, that is a very impressive episode.  Dying to find out out who 'Edith' is and how she fits in as my read continues!  DON'T TELL ME HERE PLEASE.

Frank

Quote from: TordelBack on 25 November, 2012, 09:57:17 PM
Quote from: we are all roger godpleton on 25 November, 2012, 06:19:39 PM
I'm not sure I've felt much that Moore's written to be as emotionally affecting as the early episode of The Invisibles (ii) where Morrison dedicates an entire issue to telling the mundanely tragic (partly autobiographical) life story of one of the henchmen casually offed by the glamorous King Mob in issue number one.

Yeah, that is a very impressive episode.  Dying to find out out who 'Edith' is and how she fits in as my read continues!  DON'T TELL ME HERE PLEASE.

She's Roger's Mom. That episode would be more affecting if Austin Powers hadn't riffed on the same idea just a few years later

Professor Bear

Wasn't giving dumbass henchmen elaborate backstories and personalities even though they accidentally get killed off by Thor in one panel of Avengers or something a joke from Steve Gerber's  Howard The Duck?  Revisited recently by Marvel in various books where Hydra feature and someone called Bob is usually milling about in the ranks somewhere.

Professor Bear

Was gonna post some quotes from Morrison about how Mark Millar owes him everything and juxtapose it with GM's comments about Moore having a big head, but fuck that, it's too much like effort.

Charlie boy

This spat is a funny one for me; I remember reading some time back how Morrison believes the whole issue between them was started by Moore because Morrison, on going to write Miracle Man, got in touch with Moore regarding his ideas and claims he received a reply that was somewhat Mafioso in tone and Moore himself admits he has a temper (I happened to bump into Alan Moore a few years back in the middle of the street. He was extremely pleasant to me despite my fanboy insistence on talking to him; he happily posed for a picture with me, wished me a Merry Xmas and New Year and didn't take the piss after I made a complete fool of myself.). The thing is I actually really like both writers and both writers have had a go at various people- I remember reading an interview with Moore in the last year or two in which he spoke about following Kaballah and he ended up having a right pop at Madonna. To be fair to both of them, if there's somebody in the public eye you have a problem with- it would be hard not to throw a dig at them during an interview. I'll laugh when I see an interview were one of them has a go at somebody in the public eye but their problem with each other is one I'd rather not take a side in. Both have great things going for them in my opinion and should be respected; Moore for revolutionizing the whole scene and being this free spirit and Morrison for showing how it is possible to stay with the big names and companies and still have it your way.

JOE SOAP

Quote from: Charlie boy on 26 November, 2012, 05:45:54 PM
I remember reading some time back how Morrison believes the whole issue between them was started by Moore because Morrison, on going to write Miracle Man, got in touch with Moore regarding his ideas and claims he received a reply that was somewhat Mafioso in tone and Moore himself admits he has a temper


I thought it all began with Moore not paying enough attention to him at a convention back when Morrison was a novice hawking his work.

Professor Bear

Nonsense, Joe - Morrison was an established writer by then, not some lowly fan like the ones he excludes from conventions named after himself.  He had three whole Starblazers under his belt, and a strip in his local paper when he met Moore - they were equals.

Charlie boy

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 26 November, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Quote from: Charlie boy on 26 November, 2012, 05:45:54 PM
I remember reading some time back how Morrison believes the whole issue between them was started by Moore because Morrison, on going to write Miracle Man, got in touch with Moore regarding his ideas and claims he received a reply that was somewhat Mafioso in tone and Moore himself admits he has a temper


I thought it all began with Moore not paying enough attention to him at a convention back when Morrison was a novice hawking his work.
Seriously? I'd never heard that story before. The article I read (I'll try googling it if I can't find the magazine I read it in at my brother's so long ago) claimed Moore always thought the Miracle Man creator was getting royalities etc when he (Moore) was writing it but it turned out he wasn't. Morrison was later given the chance to write Miracle Man and, as I mentioned earlier, he got in touch with Moore about his ideas and says he received a reply warning him from the title.

Professor Bear

The article Colin links to at the top of the page has similar anecdotes from Dez Skinn about how Moore (and by inference, other Warrior contributors) didn't take kindly to other people writing their strips when Morrison wrote a Kid Miracleman short story and submitted it without consulting with anyone if this was good form - and notably, he still doesn't see anything wrong with trying to nick someone else's job by going behind their back to that person's boss.  I'm sort of with Moore on that one but think it was cool of Skinn to respect that his creators were telling stories rather than creating franchise sandboxes - he didn't need Moore's permission to run that KM story, but he asked for it anyway and respected when Moore declined.

Frank

Quote from: Professor Bear on 26 November, 2012, 07:17:17 PM
(I) think it was cool of Skinn to respect that his creators were telling stories rather than creating franchise sandboxes - he didn't need Moore's permission to run that KM story, but he asked for it anyway and respected when Moore declined.

Isn't one of the things at the heart of their mutual antagonism Moore's position on creators' rights? However he arrived at his current stance and whatever the ways in which he might have violated his own principles, Moore seems to genuinely believe in the line he's pursuing, and Grant Morrison's made his name and a small fortune doing exactly the opposite. To Moore's way of thinking, Morrisson's a scab, helping reduce (even further) the likelihood of DC/Marvel/Rebellion responding to the withdrawal of his labour by agreeing to his terms.

That's what I think is at the heart of Moore's plainly nonsensical insistence that Morrison (and Vertigo in general) was copying his work and aping his style. I don't think Moore's serious about that charge, only frustrated that other talented and capable writers are content to submit to the terms he has rejected - which is the source of all Moore's petty and baffling fueds with his former collaborators too. When you've enjoyed the complete mastery over fictional worlds and characters routinely displayed by Moore, it must be frustrating that the world of fiction and its major characters don't bend to your will in the same way.

maryanddavid

Dunno, both come out of this poorly, petty and egotistical.
They are both great writers, when at the top of their game, but could learn something from the longterm writers of the tome we read, in character creation and making a character work over a looooong period of time.

M.I.K.

They are each jealous of the other's respective cuddly hirsuteness/ dignified smoothness.

Alan in particular wishes he could carry off Grant's look, but is aware that if he were ever parted with his fuzziness, it would result in him constantly being mistaken for Uncle Fester out of that Addams Family.

It's like how Dredd and Death don't get on, on account of them being envious of the size of each other's teeth.