Philosophy of Judge Death

[sensibleken]

I was wondering if this idea was ever put forward about the character of judge death. Death has been primarily portrayed as pure evil in his philosophy that always been all crime is committed by the living therefore all life must be a crime and his relentless persuit to extinguish life.

instead of dismissing it as pure evil there could be a deeper interpretation of this philosophy. i recently returned to reading 2000ad after a 14 year absence and remember the image of deadworld as a black lifeless hunk where all life had been extinguished. now amongst judge deaths many talents forgive me if i say that microbiology and sterilisation have never been one of them. i could therefore envisage that after a few decades, perhaps centuries or even millenia, deadworld would begin to flourish again. the seeds of trees, the bacteria and algae could reconquer the once dead planet reminescent of modern pictures of the towns around chernobyl becoming forests in carparks and apartment blocks or the image of the first plant growing from the black volcanoic rock of Surtsey off Iceland in the 70s.
even small insects could have excaped the apocalyse. the one thing that could be missing would be the sentient free will holding humans.

we could therefore think of the dark judges as cartesians. like descartes they could regard all 'lower' life as merely fleshy machines, with no free will and therefore no sin or virtue. or even like rouseau who believed that man in the state of nature is naturally virtuous, it is only when they interact in a society that they become corrupted. death himself being the lone person who would wander without sin in his own natural enviroment. destroy all life so that it can start again without crime. im reminded also of a speach by one of the officers in 28 days later about world without man would be a return to normality.

i would not want death to be painted as some sort of supernatural eco terrorist, i believe pat mills might sue. but the image of judge death walking in an abundant rainforest in the distant future saying 'there! i was right' seems appealing to me and may add an philosphical zero to the equation.

what do others think? has this come up before and been dismissed as stupid?

[planetoid]

I think he values all sentient life as a sin. I can't imagine he's that worried about trees, plants, insects etc nor would he envisage a time when life - sentient or otherwise - would return to Deadworld.

we could therefore think of the dark judges as cartesians. like descartes they could regard all 'lower' life as merely fleshy machines, with no free will and therefore no sin or virtue. or even like rouseau who believed that man in the state of nature is naturally virtuous, it is only when they interact in a society that they become corrupted. death himself being the lone person who would wander without sin in his own natural enviroment. destroy all life so that it can start again without crime. im reminded also of a speach by one of the officers in 28 days later about world without man would be a return to normality.

Death knew he was a sinner that's why he became a Dark Judge, at least I think that was part of his motivation. If he considers himself pure/virtuous then it's a nihilistic interpretation of those terms. He's pure by default because he's eradicated all impure life but that doesn't make him virtuous, he's still a mass murderer.

I regard Judge Death as a warped nihilistic. His agenda: to kill in order that purity will endure is flawed. It's like saying "kill all criminals so we won't have any crime." It's a practical solution because we eradicate all crime but kids stealing sweets or shoplifting would also be executed!

i would not want death to be painted as some sort of supernatural eco terrorist, i believe pat mills might sue. but the image of judge death walking in an abundant rainforest in the distant future saying 'there! i was right' seems appealing to me

A genocidal mass murderer seems appealing to you. Er... okay.    ???

According to internet dictionaries there's no such word as genocidal. But it sounds good. 

[planetoid]

Yes there is!

I wish I'd never mentioned it.

[sensibleken]

oh im not saying that he is virtuous but rather thats how he regards himself.

i cant remember which story i saw it in but i remember images of deadworld being comlpetely desolate and covered in ash, thus the idea of regrowth

and no i didnt mean genocidal maniacs are appealling any more than authoritarian cops are but rather its an appealing character twist for me

[Emperor]

Of course, they could be seen as Militant Gnostics - the divine spark has become trapped in the corrupt physical world and they are only helping humanity by setting thme free from the grasp of the Demiurge.

A gold star to the first person who can come up with a plausible way of connecting the Dark Judges back to the Cathars.

[Mike Gloady]

Interesting thought.

As to the word "genocidal" - I think the key word in your description of your search was "internet".  It's not a reliable source in an of itself, merely a pointer towards reliable, peer moderated and edited sources or a place to find them.  After all, any numpty can post something on the web, but a book publisher, commiting money, resources and time, would be very particular about fact-checking etc. 

That's not to say ALL online sources are busted flushes, just that they should be treated with care and, if possible, corroborated.  You didn't specify which dictionary sites you visited.  I reckon if you were to pick up a multi-volume PRINT dictionary (say the OED) then it might well appear. 

Not that I know of course.

Yeah, I realise that's a bit of a rant.  My pet peeve I'm afraid.  One of several.

[vzzbux]

Perhaps deadworld was reduced to ash, devoid of any life, was under the assumption that sentient life has to come from somewhere so sparks of any life sentient or not has to be eradicated thus no life can evolve. Too deep?







V

[House of Usher]

I think the idea behind Judge Death's philosophy was just to keep it simple: Judge Dredd's law enforcement doesn't go far enough, and by policing a live populace the Mega-City judges are just making work for themselves. A lawn is high maintenance. A patio doesn't need mowing.

[Peter Wolf]

Interesting comment from Sensibleken.

There are rather a lot of Malthusian enviromental extremists who share the same worldview as Judge Death who would like to wipe out Humans for crimes against Mother Earth.

They think that they are nothing more than vermin like cockroaches who need to be wiped out to save the planet.

I have argued with them online and i usually shut them up by asking them that if they have that philosophy then why dont they lead by example ?

Anyway i always thought that Deadworld was in a state of permanent nuclear winter which would mean no chance of life re-establishing itself.It also seems like Judge Death wanted to kill off all life by creating the conditions of Deadworld to do exactly that because if not then he could have killed off all human life and left other lifeforms intact and unharmed but i dont think Judge Death was a Treehugger or an animal lover somehow.

[Mike Gloady]

They think that they are nothing more than vermin like cockroaches who need to be wiped out to save the planet.

They're right.  They are a plague of vermin.  Let's rid the planet of this bunnyhugging infestation.

Brilliant comeback by the way, Peterwolf.

[ThryllSeekyr]

Judging by your alternative assessment of Judge Death I would say that he's like Druid.

They seem very brutally nature loving, and tree hugging.

Prefering the company of trees and animals to civilisation. Which as you put it is the ultimate crime second to living. As you say they that life is only a crime when it cannot flourish without the modern contrivances of civiliseation.

Druids

They cut people open and read their guts. They are eco-warriors of the creepiest kind.

Though, if Judge Death would be in leage with them, then he would have first place.

I like your theories that actaullely challenge what alot of people have been lead to beleive about Judge Death. Though, I only guessing that.

I think this is worth pursueing.

But it's pity I haven't read much in Judge Death. I don't think I have ever read about deaworkld and everytime I start "Young Death: Boyhood of a Super Fiend" I stop.So, I coan't really agree with you for that reason alone.

I spent the rest of the night and te next morning until I dozed off reading about Cathars, Gnosticism, Their war with Catholicism, The rise of the Domminicans and the other orders of monks, The fortress of Carcassonne, De' jure, Defacto and Desuetude and other latin phrases, Ducking Scolds, Docking and forcing criminals to wear barrels, the desert of wales, Cambrian mountains,  before dozing off into a confused slumber.,

Of course, they could be seen as Militant Gnostics - the divine spark has become trapped in the corrupt physical world and they are only helping humanity by setting thme free from the grasp of the Demiurge.

A gold star to the first person who can come up with a plausible way of connecting the Dark Judges back to the Cathars.

Militant Gnostics . I likdo like the sound of that, but I not so sure it can be really pinned to Judge Death.

CATHARS, you shouldn't have mentioned that,  because it could be a reference to SLAINE. Something I go alittle nuts over, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........

Remember reading about the CATHERS as Pat mIlls made note of them in one of his rare Slaine stories Post HornGod.  Even though Pat Mills said "Slaine is stand alone"., I could now imagine Slaine and Judge Death meeting perhaps very briefly. Judge Detah might manifest differently in Slaine's world or vice versa. Slaine might take a trip to Death world or the Death-Realm. Say, would that be one of the four EL worlds. As they have been outlined in "Dragon Crpse The second Diceman story. The world of the dead. I think it's possible.

Other iwse what I have learnt about Cathrs through Wikipdiea.has confused me and didn't make all that sence as it lead me on a wild interenet goose chase

What Ithink I have learn is that they have many variants, one of them is the Gnostic. Whom I beleive don't worship god, because they would need proof. Physical evidence and that denies faith as far as I am concerned.  . 

Quoting the wikipediea entry for CATHARS

According to some Cathars, the purpose of man's life on Earth was to transcend matter, perpetually renouncing anything connected with the principle of power and thereby attained union with the principle of love. According to others, man's purpose was to reclaim or redeem matter, spiritualizing and transforming it.

If it's a Cathars purpose to transcend matter...... Would that be like on of us throwing out or giving away all of their 2000AD progs. According to some variant groups, they take it further by reclaiming , redeemming matter, bringing it to spiritual level or would that be  like getting all those Progs back via a interenet download.

Anyway, that was difficult to learn about. I go back to sleep now.

[The Legendary Shark]

It seems to me that Judge Death doesn't really have a philosophy to speak of.

The son of a sadistic travelling dentist, Sidney De'ath delighted in inflicting pain and eventually gained a taste for killing by murdering three bullies from his school. It seems highly likely that the enjoyment he found in murder led him to becoming a judge, where he could kill with virtual impunity and eventually gained the nickname "Judge Death" due to his high kill-rate. Upon encountering the Sisters of Death, Judge Death and his comrades were rendered undead and imbued with supernatural powers. Once this process was complete, the four Dark Judges proceeded to eliminate all life on their world.

I don't know how long the Dark Judges and the Sisters existed in Deadworld after the Terracide had been completed, but at some point explorers from another dimension happened along and their dimension travelling technology was stolen. Death then used this technology to travel to Mega City One and continue the killing.

So far, this seems to me to be nothing more than opportunism.

Assuming certain similarities between Dredd's world and Deadworld, then it would follow that Judge Death's Earth would also at some time have been involved with, or at least aware of, aliens. Assuming, again, that Death's "all life is a crime" mantra is a philosophy, would it not be more logical for the Dark Judges to spread their particular brand of law to the rest of the galaxy? This course of action does not seem to have been pursued by either the Sisters of Death or the Dark Judges and I find myself asking why this should be so. It is possible that in destroying all human life, the Dark Judges eliminated the expertise and knowledge required to construct, operate and maintain the starships necessary for them to spread their particular brand of justice beyond the Earth. This would indicate a short-sightedness at the core of Judge Death's supposed philosophy which, to my mind, indicates that "all life is a crime" is not so much a philosophy as a psychopath's excuse for killing.

To further this argument, let us consider Judge Death's first incursion into Mega City One. Judge Death arrives alone and proceeds to "judge" citizens one by one. The logical course of action would be for Judge Death to investigate Dredd's world and then return to his own dimension in order to formulate a plan for the rapid annihilation of all life on Dredd's Earth.  Given the Dark Judges' experience in cleansing their own world of life, and the problems of resistance they must have overcome from their citizens in the process, this one-on-one approach simply doesn't add up either mathematically or philosophically. The only explanation I can think of is that Judge Death quite simply enjoys killing and that his philosophy is nothing more than a convenient excuse to justify his murderous proclivities.

If this is indeed the case, it leads me to wonder just exactly what is going on here, and always my thoughts return to the Sisters of Death. Described and portrayed as witches, Phobia and Nausea were the entities who granted Judges Death, Fire, Fear and Mortis with the powers they required in order to complete the original objective of purging their world of all life. Witches in our world are often associated with Earth Magick, the magick of life itself. The power of life is at the heart of a witches' craft and so it may be that the Sisters of Death planned to harvest the life energy of an entire planet for their own purposes. Seeing in Sydney De'ath an opportunity to achieve their goals, it would be easy for the Sisters to agree with his "all life is a crime" excuse, thereby legitimising it in De'ath's own mind and reinforcing his belief that he did indeed follow a justifiable and logical philosophy. The four Dark Judges, then, become no more than tools in the Sisters' plans.

Further indications that this may be the case might be seen in the apparel of the Sisters and the Dark Judges. The Sisters adorn themselves with life (live human heads as earrings, scorpions, snakes, worms etc) as if they are gathering life to themselves and holding it in thrall, possibly as a symbol of all the life-energy they have stolen and converted into some dark power which they now control. Judge Death's pterosaur (?) shoulder pad depicts a (presumably) extinct species, but instead of being depicted as bones the pterosaur is rendered in the form it would have taken during life. Is this meant to represent an echo of life, the life that once belonged to Sydney De'ath but has long since been extinguished and replaced with an approximation of life? Death's badge would seem to resemble the skull of a vampire, a supernatural creature that depends on life in the form of fresh blood to continue its own existence. Does this symbolise Judge Death, and by extension his three colleagues, as the "fangs" of the vampire, biting into the neck of Deadworld and transferring the lifeblood, or in this instance the life-force,  of an entire planet to the Sisters?

In conclusion, then, I don't think that Judge Death really has a philosophy – only an excuse. The real question, I believe, is what is the Sisters of Death's philosophy?

[Mike Gloady]

Shark,

You might not be a shark, but for that intriguing post, you're a legend. 

I doubt Wagner thought very much about this sort of thing when he created the characters, he doesn't tend to over-plan - he just does whatever makes a good story and then reacts to it entirely logically (but not predictably).  But I hope he's either had those thoughts SINCE creating the characters or that he stumbles across this thread.  Got to be a fair bit of fodder for interesting story threads there. 

I've always thought it a shame we didn't get much of the sisters, hopefully that will one day be remedied.

[The Legendary Shark]

Heh, thanks, Mike.  I once lost out on a promotion because my stoopid boss told me I "think too much."  Seems my stoopid boss may have been right after all.

[sensibleken]

Heh, thanks, Mike.  I once lost out on a promotion because my stoopid boss told me I "think too much."  Seems my stoopid boss may have been right after all.

yup stupid people always say that. good ideas above alright. totally forgot about the sisters. i guess a 14 year absence is a while